Episode 48… For those who ponder the physical evidence and cover up post-mortem JFK...

[MrMickeysMom]

Then please examine what is presented here. This is the best of the series yet.

[Bolo Boffin]

1. This is a very cogent explanation

of one of the most whackaloon conspiracy theories ever devised in JFK assassination lore, and there have been some doozies.

People were with JFK's casket the entire way from Parkland to Bethesda. Jackie herself only left sight of the coffin at one point after JFK was placed inside at Parkland:



JFK's coffin is down a short hallway to the left of the photographer. LBJ and Jackie are facing that hallway. ALMOST EVERYONE is facing that hallway.



In fact, most of JFK's staff was with the coffin and not at the swearing in ceremony. Brigadier General Godfrey McHugh, JFK's aide, never left the coffin between Parkland and Bethesda.

Steel cables were wrapped around the loaded coffin to prevent the coffin from shifting or opening in flight.

And to put it bluntly, JFK's body was a sopping wet mess. It had been wrapped in a couple of sheets to soak up the blood, but it would have been impossible to remove him from the coffin without smearing blood everywhere, something the distraught Jackie Kennedy would have noticed after returning to the coffin.

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY he could have been removed from the coffin at this point in time or at any time on the plane.

Nobody removed JFK from his coffin. Douglas Horne is delusional, a textbook example of knowing his conclusion and fitting every possible thing he can into his idiotic hypothesis. If this is the best this series have to offer, MrMickeysMom, it's time to give it up.

[MrMickeysMom]

2. This is the usual inflammatory remark.

So gun shots bleed... Thanks for talking about blood. So, what else is new from "JFK's staff" notes?

Spoken like someone who would not rather read a collaborated account of eye witness or ER physician. Timelines must be out, too. In fact, we should stop the presses because, "It would have been impossible to remove him from the coffin without smearing blood everywhere." Yes, indeed… If I didn't expect this answer, I'd do googlie eyes or rolling on the floor stupid icons, but it's just you, Bolo Boffin. You're like an old worn in comfortable bed slipper to this stuff.

I don't buy your ideology, and it always comes with such a twist of insult to that of investigative work, that it'd predictable. Hey, thanks for kicking the thread, anyway.

Oh, and people who use phrases "There is NO POSSIBLE WAY he could have been removed" don't even want to know, so have a nice day. Those who persist in believing the things that support the investigative work they don't want to read only show me they haven't read anything.

[Bolo Boffin]

3. The only way it could have been done is if Jackie Kennedy was in on the plot.

What part of "She only lost sight of the coffin at one point during the entire trip" do you not understand?

It didn't happen. You are lost in a fantasy world, MrMickeysMom. You are caught up in an exercise of futility. McHugh and Jackie are unimpeachable.

ETA: This is moon-landing-denial levels of ridiculous. This is no-plane-hit-the-Pentagon delusional. This scenario of Horne's didn't happen at all.

[MrMickeysMom]

4. More insults… and no referenced accounts ...

Well, it must be that poor Jackie Kennedy must have leaked this to someone who wrote about it before you believed it with a vengeance, then, Bolo, right?

What would a thread of mine be without insults from you? Do you really watch any of the "50 Reasons" videos? Just curious. I just posted another one about the head wound. You'll find 80 witness accounts don't line up with fantasy.

Moon landing denial? Where does that come from? Is this more logical fallacy?

Finally, the rant, "This scenario of Horne's didn't happen at all" was because you didn't read it from what sources?

Thanks for kicking the threads, as usual.

[Bolo Boffin]

5. I am happy to kick this thread, MrMickeysMom.

I want the world to see the insane things being said about the assassination of JFK. All the better you parade it around so proud of it. Bart Sibrel was so proud of accosting Buzz Aldrin. The same thing is going on here.

Since you're so up on all the witness accounts, you know damn well what McHugh said about never leaving the coffin during the entire trip from Parkland to Bethesda. Dave Powers also adamantly maintained that the coffin was never left unattended throughout the trip. Yes, this really is a theory worthy of moon-landing denialism. It's not plausible on the face of it and there is evidence that directly precludes it from happening.

[MrMickeysMom]

6. I'm happy you kick it, too...

Although, not for the same explanation you gave. You give no references outside of names of people who said things. Where did those accounts come from?

Again, you connect more logical fallacy by talking about moon-landings. Who in God's name is talking about that but you?

If you don't like these things that you don't watch, then don't write about something you can't reference while talking about an unrelated goofy story about faked moon landings. If you want to talk about moon landings, why don't you start a thread about them?

[Bolo Boffin]

7. Let me get this straight: you are actually asking me for links on McHugh?

And Jackie's whereabouts? And Dave Power's statement?

You really don't think these things exist? Really?

[MrMickeysMom]

8. You've taken this many posts to talk trash...

What else would you plan?

[Bolo Boffin]

9. So when I produce the links and citations to all of this evidence

You will

a) realize what an incredible amount of snake oil Douglas Horne has been selling all this time...

or

b) completely handwave them all away and go right back to believing what Horne said?

[MrMickeysMom]

10. You're presented with a good deal of evidence, and yet...

A) You never bother to read it

B) You continue to discount like any ideologue would

Surprise us all by reading the references presented to you here… for a change.

[Bolo Boffin]

11. Because the evidence presented (uncited, I might add) in that video

is completely impeached by the fact that McHugh never left the coffin, that Jackie almost never did, and that Dave Powers was aware of how many of JFK's staff was always around the coffin.

Whatever evidence Douglas Horne thinks he has, it must be explainable some other way, because the scenario he envisions to explain it all manifestly did not happen.

And I did watch that video. That's why I said it was a very cogent explanation of Douglas Horne's whackaloon conspiracy theory. The equivalent is now all of the tests and evidence showing the fourth gunshot on the Dictabelt recording, since the motorcycle being recorded has been shown to be two miles away from Dealey Plaza.

But before I give my links and citations to information that positively does exist and which I really am surprised you have no knowledge of at all...

...what will you do when I do present the citations and links? Will you accept that Horne is as full of cranberry stuffing as a Christmas goose? Or will you simply handwave it all away?

[MrMickeysMom]

12. I'll do what I've always done...

Read and continue to learn.

And, we all know what you will continue to do ... spin around, waving your hands.

[Bolo Boffin]

13. McHugh's oral history from 1981 - released by JFK Library in 2009.

http://archive1.jfklibrary.org/JFKOH/McHugh,%20Godfrey%20T/JFKOH-GTM-02/JFKOH-GTM-02-TR.pdf

Page 36 of that PDF:

McHUGH: She was asked, “Mrs. Kennedy, the President wants you to attend the ceremony, the swearing-in ceremony.” She turned to me and said, “At least you don’t leave him. Don’t leave him. Stay with him.” So I’m the only one on board that airplane that stayed with the casket. Never left it.

STERN: You weren’t in that picture?

McHUGH: I’m not in that picture, because I’m…. The door is right there. I see them doing it, but I did not go in. I stood with the casket. I felt I was his military honor guard, that I should stay with him.

I'm wrong in one respect. McHugh left the coffin before the plane took off to speak to the pilot face to face. But Jackie was in the breakfast nook just opposite the coffin along with the people accompanying her. McHugh never left the coffin at any other time.

So between Jackie and McHugh, JFK's coffin was always accompanied - all the way from Parkland to Bethesda. And it was clearly a concern of Jackie's that the coffin never be unattended. McHugh wouldn't even leave for the autopsy.

Shall I go on?

[MrMickeysMom]

15. Yes, more arm waiving ….

You show that you'd rather make a case about who was with Jackie, based on an interview that was supposed to track what this OP video addressed. This is what people do when they tend to want to read "the" historical account, and not accounts dealing with the committees who were supposed to have weighed evidence. After all, a second hand account in an oral interview is better than missing brain mass.

You post this kind of stuff often here, so anything that connects the committees that had or did not have evidence that was accounted for by pathologist is just crap to you. That's an ideologue for you...

I'll try one more time… The autopsy's pathology on the brain and the removal of it is missing is based on direct interviews with three pathologists, one of them being the most credible in the revelation of missing evidence. Your account of an oral interview has nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with Parkland Medical Staff testimony in 1964, or the accounting of exit wounds and damage to JFK's head, which was ruined by pre-autopsy surgery, versus autopsy photos. Go back to time marker 13 minutes to see what was actually done from Andrews Air Force Base to Bethesda's morgue at 8 PM. Or, don't… It's really up to you anyway.

So, the account of an oral interview convinces you a coffin was always accompanied. And, from trauma room one until the ARRB's interviews, you are therefore convinced with or not interested in that half the brain mass was missing. Well, the evidence regarding post-post-mortum surgery by Dr. James J Humes, lead Navy pathologist shows differently. Dr. Humes denied removing the scull cap and brain tissue. Three pathologist participated in examination of the brain and the evidence in Bethesda showed that the scull cap was opened by someone between the time the body arrived at 6:35 pm and autopsy 8 PM. Dr. Humes acknowledge at Bethesda morgue, surgery was performed at the top of the scull. The morgue audience did not know that Humes pre-autopsy surgery caused incredible damage. He was engaging in defensive behavior. Then panicking, admitted in Bethesda, "Well, I see it too". This was pointed out in the book, "Best Evidence, by Dr. David Lipton.

Do you ever read anything on this board that isn't placed there by those not of the same opinion as you? Not that I've ever seen.

Reading is good, Bolo Boffin. So is reading for understanding.

[Bolo Boffin]

16. McHugh's is a firsthand account, MrMickeysMom.

Not secondhand. It is you doing the handwaving here.

Since he was with the body the entire time through the autopsy (but for that one time on the plane, there was no opportunity for that double coffin scenario proposed by Lifton and Horne. There was no time for pre-autopsy surgery. It didn't happen. JFK's body got there at 6:55, not 6:35.

[MrMickeysMom]

18. I don't see how you can weigh this in light of evidence...

… not that this has ever stopped your ideology from spinning wildly and flapping before.

[Bolo Boffin]

19. Do you know where the FBI agents got the idea that there was surgery to the head?

I wonder if you do. Who told them there was surgery to the head and when?

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Read...

God knows you've had plenty of references dished up to you throughout the year and before that.

Instead of crying like someone who should be spoon fed this stuff… J U S T F U C K I N G R E A D.

You claim you do, but you don't. What is wrong with you ability to read the stuff you claim you've already become aware of?

How have you become aware of the ideology of who killed JFK?

Thought so…

[Bolo Boffin]

21. Please stop the Meta bullshit and discuss the issue.

How did the FBI agents get the idea there was surgery to the head?

[MrMickeysMom]

22. You first...

After all, if you are going to continue these rather idiotic questions, you may as well go back to answer the one of how you are absolutely convinced that the body of JFK was NEVER left alone!

[Bolo Boffin]

23. There is no question there. His body was never unattended from Parkland to Bethesda

and through the autopsy.

If you have a question you think you have asked, perhaps you should try using a question mark.

James Humes told the FBI agents that there appeared to be surgery to the head, MrMickeysMom.

[greyl]

14. No, I think it'll be "b".

Completely handwave them all away and go right back to believing what Horne said.

[Bolo Boffin]

17. The heart wants what it wants. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

24. Kicked for the anniversary

properly...

[zappaman]

25. The anniversary of what?

...how many posts in the same thread are written by the same person? Well, let's give a hat tip to THAT one!

[dflprincess]

26. Recent interview with a doctor who was there:

Physician discusses JFK assassination

[div class = "excerpt"]
http://www.myplainview.com/canyon/news/article_f6555d0a-48c4-11e3-bbd1-001a4bcf887a.html

By JAMES BARRINGTON Canyon News staff

Dr. Don Teal Curtis, of Amarillo, was a first year resident at Parkland Hospital in 1963. As one of the first three medical providers to attend to President John F. Kennedy on Nov. 23, 1963, the day he was shot in Dallas. Curtis spoke to a packed Derrick Hall audience at the Panhandle-Plains Historical Museum on Thursday evening.

Curtis had graduated from the Baylor University school of dentistry and specialized in Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology and Surgery. Having finished his medical internship, Curtis was in the first of two years of medical residency when he walked from the neighboring clinic where he had seen patients on the morning of Nov. 22, 1963, to Parkland Hospital for lunch in the hospital cafeteria before performing scheduled surgery in the early afternoon. He told the audience that he witnessed a “lot of police cars” in the parking lot, and as he approached, he recognized the presidential limousine, covered with blood and a number of roses that had been placed on the back of the car.....

...As a resident, Curtis had worked many trauma patients, including victims of gunshots and knife wounds. With another surgeon beginning a tracheotomy to open the president’s airway, Curtis went to the president’s leg to begin what he called a “cut-down” procedure....

...As he was beginning the cut-down procedure and another doctor was beginning the tracheotomy, a third doctor moved around to the president’s head and lifted it so he could examine the president for any wounds that were not visible from his position, lying on his back. As soon as the doctor lifted the president’ head, he said, “Stop resuscitation. This is not compatible with life.” Curtis reported that each senior physician, and there were several in the room by then, looked at Kennedy’s head. Curtis also looked, and he told the audience “the posterior part of his head was blown out.” Curtis, who had become very familiar with entrance and exit wounds during his trauma room work at Parkland, said that there was no doubt in his mind that the exit wound on the president’s head was at the back....

...Curtis went on to describe being called to testify before the Warren Commission. He detailed the membership of the Warren Commission and the intimidation tactics used by Arlen Specter, the counsel for the commission that interrogated him and the other medical staff, essentially forcing them into compromising their testimony to make it fit the “official version” that was essentially laid out by J. Edger Hoover, the director of the FBI and a Kennedy opponent, before the Warren Commission was organized.

[MrMickeysMom]

27. Interesting comment below this Texas article

There is no trust...Free the files.
John . F. Kennedy’s assassination happened 50 years ago and a majority of Americans do not believe The Warren Commission Report. After 50 years of denials, free the files.
“Sunny Day in Dallas” – Gerry Segal

http://www.gerrysegal.com

So, 50 years after at least 50 reasons to think that the Warren Commission's report wasn't worth the paper it was written on… are the MAJORITY of AMERICANS in 50 STATES who STILL DON'T BUY IT.

And, with so much good reason, who can blame us?

Hell no, I'm not giving up...