13 planes vanish from radars over Europe

[jakeXT]

As many as 13 planes flying over Europe vanish from radar screens in an "unprecedented" series of blackouts that lasted 25 minutes with claims air traffic control could have been hacked

An air-safety investigation has been launched after 13 planes flying over Europe disappeared from radar screens in two "unprecedented" blackouts, leading to reports stating air traffic control systems had been hacked.

The aircraft went missing from screens across the region in early June, leaving air traffic controllers with no information about their position, direction and height – instead relying on voice communication alone.

Air traffic control centres in Austria, southern Germany, the Czech Republic and Slovakia all reported the same problem with each period of interference lasting around 25 minutes but varying from flight to flight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.html

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. why is this CT?

[jakeXT]

2. It was too old for LBN, so I posted it here, maybe it's interesting to some people. /nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

3. but, it is a fact that this happened ... and posting it here implies that some conspiracy is

involved ... what theory is being implicated here?

[jakeXT]

4. It reminded me of the transponder malfunctions over Afghanistan and MH370 this year

NEW DELHI: A Chicago-bound Boeing 777 of Air India on Monday returned to Delhi six hours after taking off from IGI airport as the aircraft suffered a transponder failure just when it was about to cross Afghanistan. The flight, AI 127 with 313 passengers and 16 crew members, had flown for about three hours out of India when the transponder failed.

The pilot then had to return to Delhi as an aircraft cannot enter Europe without a working transponder. The aircraft was a Boeing 777-300 ER (extended range).

...

Before Monday's transponder failure, an AI Dreamliner too had suffered the same problem over Afghanistan about a fortnight back.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Chicago-bound-Air-India-flight-suffers-snag-back-to-Delhi-6-hours-after-take-off/articleshow/31776979.cms

Flight MH370 went missing after transponder was shut off:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/18/flight-mh370-went-missing-after-transponder-was-shut-off-why-do-planes-even-have-an-off-switch-for-crucial-device/

and of course if you could "hack" traffic control, that would open some possibilities.

So presumably the “simulated information” is part of a NORAD exercise currently taking place, such as Vigilant Guardian (see (6:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). Therefore, many minutes into the real 9/11 attacks, there may be false radar blips appearing on the screens of NORAD personnel. Additional details, such as whose radar screens have false blips and over what duration, are unclear. However, while the Toronto Star will indicate that the simulated material is removed from NORAD radar screens shortly before 9:03 a.m., when the second attack on the World Trade Center takes place, at 10:12 a.m. an officer at the operations center will call NEADS and ask it to “terminate all exercise inputs coming into Cheyenne Mountain” (see 10:12 a.m. September 11, 2001).

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=complete_911_timeline_training_exercises&timeline=complete_911_timeline

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. thanks for all the info and links.

need to think about this.

[superbeachnut]

6. RADAR data is stored, a post study will show who flew where, like 911

In the United States radar is recorded. Thus after 911, even if the controllers made mistakes, turned off their screens, lost power, etc. the data is still there. Thus crazy claims of aircraft swaps, etc, are all proved wrong by the data. NORAD does not control air traffic, ATC/FAA does, thus the claims made about NORAD are silly anyway. ATC could be used to identify bad aircraft and fighter could use ATC, the smart pilots would... The only possibility for CTs are in the fantasy minds who make up the fake claims.

It is true, if your transponder stops working ATC will have you land and repair it. So, it means what.

History commons is hearsay, and sourced from news reports which may or may not be factual, or close to the truth. Using news source as facts is a mistake. There were no fake blips on any ATC RADAR on 911, and the 911 crap is misleading.

In the case of 911, stored RADAR data debunks all claims by 911 truth relegated to flight issues, like fake planes, change of planes, etc. all lies, proved fake by RADAR stored data.

When RADAR goes out, or failure like this, you have to resort to landing, or using the old fashion position reports.

[jakeXT]

7. I also know the lottery numbers after they have been chosen

WASHINGTON — WHEN mass murderers took over the cockpits of four American airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, one of the first things they did was turn off the transponders, so the planes would not register properly on civilian radar.

A few months later, the Council on Foreign Relations published a book, “How Did This Happen?” about the mistakes leading to that awful day. I wrote the aviation security chapter, which highlighted vulnerabilities in the way airliner transponders operate.

If the transponders had not gone silent on 9/11, air traffic controllers would have quickly realized that two jetliners en route to Los Angeles had made dramatic course changes and were bound straight for Manhattan. Instead, controllers lost precious time trying to figure out where the aircraft were.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/opinion/out-of-control.html?_r=0

[superbeachnut]

8. What a typical news source, wrong

FL175 never shut off its transponder, so it was tracked.

The FAA did follow the primary returns on both aircraft, 11 and 175, all the way into the NY areas until below radar detection range. This kept the FAA busy because 11 and 175 both became out of control hazards, so the news source is BS, the controllers were busy de-conflicting traffic for 11 and 175 - the controller knew in real time they had problems. Guess news reporters are not pilots or ATC controllers; you got some hearsay missed in with our think we know. (article wrong, maybe why it is an op ed piece)

AA 77, a special case, Indianapolis Sector monitoring the aircraft had ONLY secondary returns (not primary) available to them.
For FL77, when the transponder went off, Indianapolis ATC Center presumed the aircraft went down, and began their search in the direction it was heading. oops = but gee, the article says two planes headed for NYC, oops, the article got what right? Nothing. What happens when we fail to filter the news to what really happened, and let reporters make up the news.

Flight 93, everyone heard the pilots scream on ATC freq. (everybody on freq) They were murdered and yelled on the radios... Flight 93 never go far, the Passengers on Flight 93 figure out 911 in Minutes, and took action.

I was making a small note, the RADAR data is stored and you can do a study after the fact. For instance, RADAR data on 911 proves all four planes were tracked from takeoff to impact. Making all the claims about substitution, etc, false. No big deal.

The loss of ATC stuff is serious and is a hazard. Wonder how much the news got right?

This article, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/opinion/out-of-control.html?_r=1 Is an op ed piece, make no sense and got very little right about 911, flight procedures and flight.

Was it NATO, or China... or what

[jakeXT]

9. Even the 911 report mentions something

AA 77, a special case, Indianapolis Sector monitoring the aircraft had ONLY secondary returns (not primary) available to them.
For FL77, when the transponder went off, Indianapolis ATC Center presumed the aircraft went down, and began their search in the direction it was heading. oops = but gee, the article says two planes headed for NYC, oops, the article got what right? Nothing. What happens when we fail to filter the news to what really happened, and let reporters make up the news.

For instance, RADAR data on 911 proves all four planes were tracked from takeoff to impact.

Are you confusing primary with secondary radar? They looked in the wrong direction. And again how does radar data after the event help me during an event ?

The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to inves-
tigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that
FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was
turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05,
this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers
at Indianapolis Center.
142
The reasons are technical, arising from the way the
software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar cov-
erage where American 77 was flying.
According to the radar reconstruction,American 77 reemerged as a primary
target on Indianapolis Center radar scopes at 9:05, east of its last known posi-
tion.The target remained in Indianapolis Center’s airspace for another six min-
utes, then crossed into the western portion of Washington Center’s airspace at
9:10.As Indianapolis Center continued searching for the aircraft, two managers
and the controller responsible for American 77 looked to the west and south-
west along the flight’s projected path, not east—where the aircraft was now
heading. Managers did not instruct other controllers at Indianapolis Center to
turn on their primary radar coverage to join in the search for American 77.
143
In sum, Indianapolis Center never saw Flight 77 turn around. By the time
it reappeared in primary radar coverage, controllers had either stopped look-
ing for the aircraft because they thought it had crashed or were looking toward
the west. Although the Command Center learned Flight 77 was missing, nei-
ther it nor FAA headquarters issued an all points bulletin to surrounding cen-
ters to search for primary radar targets. American 77 traveled undetected for
36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, D.C.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

[superbeachnut]

10. The article you presented got it wrong

The op ed piece you posted was nonsense. Yes

Nope, I flew for a living, I know secondary and primary and used transponders.

When 77 showed up in DC, it was on RADAR, and ATC had to warn traffic of 77. The planes did not disappear from RADAR. 77 is the only one where Center was unable to track the primary target because the scopes had no feed from primary. When 77 flew east it started to show up on scopes with primary feeds. DC ATC pointed out 77 to air traffic.

Unlike the OP where there was some glitch.

[jakeXT]

11. I guess lumping in UAL 175 with the other flights is a bit sloppy

one of the first things they did was turn off the transponders, so the planes would not register properly on civilian radar.

He should've mentioned that UAL 175 changed it's code multiple times, while the others lost their transponder. I don't know if he writes about it in his 2001 book, or if it was known back then.

[jakeXT]

12. advanced surface-to-air systems like the SA-17 are transponder aware

However, Swiggart explained, advanced surface-to-air systems like the SA-17 are transponder aware, meaning they can detect if they are targeting an airliner. Civilian airlines are constantly broadcasting a four-digit transponder, known as an IFF code, that designates aircraft as civilian. The code would be detected by the SA-17 if the weapons system attempted to lock on or “paint” MH17.

“It’s easy to tell the difference between a civilian aircraft or not, if you’re a skilled radar operator,” Swiggart said. “There’s really no excuse to shoot down an airliner unless you were trying to.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/07/17/what-would-it-take-to-shoot-down-mh17/