Thoughts about Zeitgeist ideology

[DisabledDem]

All the mods seem to think this is some right-winger republican movie but it's not once you start looking at the views presented in the movie such as the abolition pf human labor and currency.

[Bolo Boffin]

1. Zeitgeist the Movie has three different parts.

The first is a lengthy denial of the existence of Jesus as a historical person. Nothing right wing or left wing about it at al.

The second is 9/11 alternative history. Again, there is nothing particularly left wing or right wing about this section. Yes, a Republican president was in office during the attacks, but many 9/11 Truth leaders came from the right wing side of the political aisles as much as any came from the left.

The last section is Federal Reserve alt history. Again, you will find both left wing and right wing adherents to this explanation.

The true place that Zeitgeist is speaking from is libertarianism and extreme distrust of authority.

I'll add more later.

[KDLarsen]

2. Is there really a need to add more?

extreme distrust of authority.
Sums up Zeitgeist pretty well for me.

[DisabledDem]

3. The latter Zeitgeist films have negative view on libertarian economics from Misses/Hayek

Though it's speaking from a left-libertarian point of view and not the Right wing Libertarian point of view

[Grateful for Hope]

5. "The true place that Ziegeist is speaking from is libertarianism"

I absolutely agree.

[napoleon_in_rags]

17. No, no. Main message - sustainability.

Zeitgeist is playing ball at a higher level than any simplistic political labels like "libertarian." They advance the idea that the current monetary system is is based on constant expansion, and isn't geared toward sustainable economy - an idea we see playing out in very real terms in the world.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Maybe they want to keep a lid on it due to its unsavory association

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/13/zeitgeist-the-documentary-that-may-have-shaped-jared-loughners-worldview.html

[napoleon_in_rags]

18. Wow, so one killer can take down a whole ideological movement based on association?

Even when the killer was clearly mentally ill and institutionalized? Please, expound on this.

[ThomThom]

6. everyone should watch these three documentaries and make up your own mind

the first covers the god thing definitely not supporting right wing religion more like debunking it then goes into some conspiracy stuff that had a lot of history in it from WWI to 911
the second is a shot at capitalism and its failings
the third I have not watched yet but will soon

[Marrah_G]

7. I thought they were the opposite of RW ideology...

[Peace_Sells]

8. Culture in Decline

Has anyone watched Peter Joseph's Culture in decline series? It is a continuation of the zeitgeist films and is coming more from a left point of view but presented in a way that is more palpable to people from the right and center. http://www.cultureindecline.com/

[tama]

10. System critics

from holistic environmental and ethical approach.

The Venus project is hard to define - society run by benevolent computer philosophers ain't exactly anarchism or libertarianism, rather some sort of scifi platonism. Let's say I have my doubts, but let them try...

BTW what mods where? Thought that there are no mods on DU3, just hosts, jurys and admins+mirt?

[Whisp]

11. I have seen these and thought they were interesting, at the very least.

I'm an atheist so the first one struck a special chord with me.

One thing that absolutely flabbergasts me is the accusation that the Zeitgeist films are anti-semitic. I saw no such thing! I am so perplexed about that. The only thing I can think of is people like Alex Jones interpret the Zeitgeist films in their own twisted ways and that has taken off as what the films are about, when they're not.

Anyway, I find all that really creepy that a film that exposes and questions some of the great puzzles of our times is pointed at and screamed ANTI-SEMITE! and can't even be allowed on GD.

but I don't know, maybe I missed something obvious.

[greyl]

12. This helps explain what might not be obvious:

Please check out the full article where these excerpts have more context.

A secretive cabal?

Ultimately, the argument that is being made throughout Zeitgeist is that the world is being controlled by a small secret society of individuals, and in the context of the history of conspiracy theories, they are talking about the Jews. When we are told by the film about meetings of these “international bankers” that are “secretive and concealed from public view”, discussions about “an accelerated agenda by the ruthless elite”, or “people behind the government” they are breathing new life into an old racist myth that we must try to do away with.

Who was Senator Louis McFadden?

Louis McFadden, who is quoted at length in Zeitgeist, was a senator in the US in the first part of the twentieth century. He also happened to be a serious anti-Semite, and came out with lines such as, “in the United States today, the Gentiles have the slips of paper while the Jews have the lawful money.” He is quoted twice in the film saying the following: “A world banking system was being set up here… a superstate controlled by international bankers acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure…” and “It was a carefully contrived occurrence. International bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair so they might emerge rulers of us all.” Within the context of McFadden’s world view, he is using “international bankers” as an epithet for Jews. What is notable is that the makers of Zeitgeist seem keen to omit this context, to suggest that McFadden is simply offering a critique of capitalism. The fact is that within conspiracy theories the labelling of Jews as “international bankers” and “international finance capital” is a common trope. These quotes would have been understood at the time, and is still understood by many now, to be anti-Semitic gestures.

The positivist problem

There is one reason in particular that these conspiracies may seem compatible with left wing modes of thought, and that is to do with the philosophical problem of positivism. Stated in its simplest form, this is that ideas about transforming a society cannot be straightforwardly expressed in the language or accepted modes of thought of the society that they wish to transform. And this issue is common to all transformative theories of society. Probably the most influential branch of this type of thinking stemmed from Hegel to Marx, and then into Marxists of the 20th and 21st century. The solution for them is to talk in terms of a dialectic, that is, by comparing the consciousness of a society to the material reality. The significant conclusion of this type of thought is that one’s consciousness of society, up to a certain point is always false.

The conspiracy theorists take on this question in another way. They say that if our consciousness of society is always false, it is made to be false by a small number of powerful who make it false. They believe that we are consistently duped by an all-knowing cabal who control every aspect of our lives. And the solutions differ too. For the Marxists and socialists the problem is that society produces a consciousness that doesn’t allow us to fully understand our immiseration in work, in unemployment, or in powerlessness, and the solution is the radical transformation of society to a fairer, less exploitative world. For the conspiracy theorists the answer is the elimination of this so-called small powerful elite. They do not believe that society needs any more transformation than this.

[Whisp]

13. but there are small groups of powerful elites

that affect all of us in many ways that are against our interests. I still don't undertstand but I'm leaving this alone because I sense I am not allowed to even talk about this or get the evil eye.

[TransitJohn]

16. In my opinion that's just as dumb as when the Republican talking heads on TV

said that the word neo-conservative was a smear for Jews.

[MrMickeysMom]

14. The most interesting part is the 1st 20 minutes of the first movie...

Always thought mythology and religion were in need of a good ringing out. Joseph Campbell explains the reason why we do this, and Zeitgeist's examination of religious mythology ties into the model of what moves people to be controlled.

[razee]

15. Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks interviews Peter Joseph, Zeitgeist Movement Founder

&feature=youtu.be