LOL, YouTube gets it

[William Seger]

http://architects-engineers.org/

(Edit, in case you think it's a hoax, here the YouTube link referenced in the page:

)

[jakeXT]

1. Youtube is owned by google

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11741388

[William Seger]

3. This new policy is going to put a dent in Gage's Vacation Fund (n/t)

[wildbilln864]

15. How so?

All their videos are still there...

[wildbilln864]

2. apparently you didn't.

the A&E website link is this: http://www.ae911truth.org/
the faked one you use to promote BS is not their official site.
edited to ad: and none of their videos are blocked on youtube! no wonder you fall for the official nonsense.

[William Seger]

4. Apparently I didn't what?

The site architects-engineers.org is listed under "Project Sites" on the page you linked to.

Here's the whois domain lookup:

Domain Name:ARCHITECTS-ENGINEERS.ORG
Domain ID: D162674697-LROR
Creation Date: 2011-06-30T23:20:34Z
Updated Date: 2014-03-22T17:49:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2016-06-30T23:20:34Z
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, LLC (R91-LROR)
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
WHOIS Server:
Referral URL:
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Registrant ID:CR87162766
Registrant Name:Richard Gage
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Registrant City:Berkeley
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code 4704
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:[phone]
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:[e-mail]
Admin ID:CR87162768
Admin Name:Richard Gage
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:California
Admin Postal Code 4704
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:[phone]
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:[e-mail]
Tech ID:CR87162767
Tech Name:Richard Gage
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Tech City:Berkeley
Tech State/Province:California
Tech Postal Code 4704
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:[phone]
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:[e-mail]
Name Server:NS1.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:NS2.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned

The link to buy the video goes to http://911expertsspeakout.org which is also on that page and has the same registration info:

Domain Name 11EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Domain ID: D162845160-LROR
Creation Date: 2011-07-22T06:52:12Z
Updated Date: 2014-03-22T17:49:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2016-07-22T06:52:12Z
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, LLC (R91-LROR)
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
WHOIS Server:
Referral URL:
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Registrant ID:CR88802747
Registrant Name:Richard Gage
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Registrant City:Berkeley
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code 4704
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:[phone]
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:[e-mail]
Admin ID:CR88802749
Admin Name:Richard Gage
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:California
Admin Postal Code 4704
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:[phone]
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:[e-mail]
Tech ID:CR88802748
Tech Name:Richard Gage
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Tech City:Berkeley
Tech State/Province:California
Tech Postal Code 4704
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:[phone]
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:[e-mail]
Name Server:NS1.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:NS2.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned

[William Seger]

6. LOL

Click the link YOU posted, scroll down to the section that lists "Project Sites" and click "architects-engineers.org"

As for the whois, you'll need to type it correctly and leave off the "http://"

[wildbilln864]

7. i did leave it off and substituted www. instead...

but I must concede You're correct! Forgot to delete the end slash. Hope you're feeling very wonderful about finally being correct. lol.
nonetheless, all of their other videos are available so what do you think you've proven? This has nothing to do with the science which proves CD.
edit to ad:
It's probably a violation for advertising for donations or some minor err on their part was the reason for removing the one video.

[William Seger]

8. LOL, "finally being correct" huh?

You're proud of the fact that you don't even read what I post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11358777#post3

That would make you among the least qualified people on the board to judge whether or not I'm correct.

[wildbilln864]

9. but i do usually

get around to reading your boringly long posts eventually and it's just a bunch of sophistry which in no way answers the questions about 911 with any facts! Your opinion as to my qualifications not withstanding.

[William Seger]

10. That's okay

I don't post for your benefit.

[wildbilln864]

11. Good thing that!

How many do you think you've convinced so far BTW?

[William Seger]

13. Hard to say

Could be a lot of reasons why there's only about three or four "truthers" left around here, and not a one of them can discuss any issue intelligently.

[wildbilln864]

14. I think there is quite a few more than 3 or 4 and...just because they disagree with the

nonsense propaganda you and the other 911 anti-truthers catapult doesn't mean they're not intelligent. I easily count at least 14 within the firs few threads here. But disparaging anyone who questions the official nonsense seems to be your forte'. You cannot honestly answer the real questions about the molten steel and the free fall acceleration of building 7! All you can do is deny those things happened but they did. As dozens of eyewitnesses and scientists have proven.
Not really hard to say though. I'd say zero for instance.

[William Seger]

16. I ANSWER people who "question the official nonsense"

I disparage people who prefer willful ignorance.

(Edit, since YOU provide this perfect example)

> You cannot honestly answer the real questions about the molten steel and the free fall acceleration of building 7! All you can do is deny those things happened but they did.

That is a lie. I have said many times that you don't know that the molten metal was molten steel, because the people who reported that couldn't possibly have identified it as such just by looking at it, and that there was almost certainly molten aluminum, which nobody reported. I have also said many times that the 2.25 seconds of freefall, which came after 1.5 seconds of less than freefall (which Gage's "experts" repeatedly ignore or lie about) can easily be explained by the fact that 8 stories of columns were buckled and broken by that point, and I even gave you a diagram to explain it.

[wildbilln864]

17. molten steel and free fall acceleration! n/t

[William Seger]

18. See edit above

[wildbilln864]

20. pssst! that video you originally posted about is here:

guess Youtube didn't get it after all huh?

[wildbilln864]

19. fema admits molten steel. Many eyewitnesses identified it!

There are pictures!

you are posting more unsupported speculative sophistry based on nothing other than someone who wasn't there's opinion.

[William Seger]

21. Instead of retracting your lie, you offer another one

We have also discussed many times the scientific study -- not my opinion -- which identified that as a eutectic reaction that happened at about 1000^oC, which absolutely no real expert believes is thermitic melting.

[wildbilln864]

22. bullshit!

these experts say your fulll of it!

site where any "eutectic reaction" ever caused steel to melt and flow under any building happened before 911 in any steel framed hirise resulting in collapse of any kind!

[William Seger]

23. There's no need to explain things that didn't happen

You posted an image of the piece of steel which was identified as being a eutectic reaction. You post absolutely no evidence that it had anything to do with the collapse, and since it most probably happened in the rubble pile after the collapse, there's no reason to presume that it did. You post nothing to prove that the molten metal that was observed was actually molten steel -- in fact, no real proof that it was molten metal instead of molten glass.

You claimed all I did was "deny" these things, but now all you want to do is tell us how unconvinced you are by the rational explanations, as if someone should be impressed by that.

[wildbilln864]

24. fail!

The Killer Fires Theory is Pure Fantasy

The simple facts of temperatures:

1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)

Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.

The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
http://911review.com/articles/jm/mslp_1.htm

[William Seger]

25. Dishonest arguments and recycled bullshit

As we've discussed many times, at even 600ºC, structural steel loses half its strength, and even at 300ºC its subject to the elastoplastic creep buckling that real experts have identified as the proximate cause of the tower collapses, not "melted" steel. Only the willfully ignorant could hang around this board since 2005 and not know that.

And still you want to dredge up long-since refuted arguments and repost bullshit videos instead of retracting your claim that "all" I do is "deny" these idiotic arguments. I give supported reasons for rejecting that bullshit and you stick your fingers in your ears.

[wildbilln864]

28. you're projecting!

and 600 C does not melt steel! nor even Al which is 660! What heated
the steel to over 660 C? Oxygen starved wood fires?
Nope. People burn wood for heat every day. and their steel heaters don't collapse!

[wildbilln864]

26. that would be over 1800 degrees F!

No way kerosene fires or oxygen starved paper fires reach such temperatures. But even still, the steel was melted.

[William Seger]

27. Which is precisely the temperatures reached by the rubble pile fires

... and well below the temperatures produced by thermite, which is the actual point. There is not a shred of evidence of any steel that was melted at that temperature.

[wildbilln864]

29. what fueled those rubble piles william?

steel was seen in the video I posted glowing bright yellow and orange weeks after the collapses!

[William Seger]

31. (Sigh) The office contents, obviously

... which not a single real expert finds surprising, and steel "glowing bright yellow and orange" simply confirms that temperature rather than refutes it. Where is the evidence of any temperature anywhere near the temperature of thermite, and where is the rational explanation of how thermite would be found burning "weeks after" or why steel melted by thermite before the collapse would still be "molten" weeks later? The thermite theory isn't just unsupported; it's downright irrational.

[wildbilln864]

32. evaporated steel shows thermit evidence! n/t

Mark Basile explains in the video I posted.

[William Seger]

35. No, it does not

Iron slag and aluminum oxide residue would be evidence of thermite melting. "Evaporated" steel is evidence of a eutectic corrosion.

[wildbilln864]

36. nope!

the physicists, chemists and metallurgists all say you're wrong! They examined the evidence. You did not. You believed liars and shills.

[William Seger]

39. "Truther" physicists, chemists, and metallurgists

... who have manifestly failed to convince their professional peers that they know what the hell they're talking about. Why do you suppose that is?

[wildbilln864]

41. truther simply means they seek the truth!

they're intelligent enough to know they've been lied to and not crooked enough to follow the sheep. They have not lost their jobs so evidently their peers still have faith in their judgements and expertise. As do their employers and clients!

[William Seger]

42. No, it does not; that's why I ALWAYS put "truther" in quotes

"Truthers" are allergic to truth, and you keep posting the videos that prove that.

[wildbilln864]

44. doesn't matter what you think it means!

It means we want the truth of what happened and how and are not convinced. Your opinion of it's meaning is of little importance to us. microscopic even.

[William Seger]

46. You "want the truth" but

... then accuse anyone who tells it to you of lying and sophistry, often before you even read what they have to say and always before you make the first attempt to understand why they say what they say. If that weren't true, you'd at least know what they say, and here you've given extremely convincing evidence that you don't. The only "truth" you want is what theology calls "revealed truth," which means someone pulled it out of their ass and you accept it on faith.

[wildbilln864]

47. I don't accept that you

have the truth. What I want is an investigation. A public, independent one. Never gonna happen IMO but that's what I want. Until then no bullshit will convince me that those building shouldn't have collapsed the way they did.

[wildbilln864]

30. there is not any evidence that the temps

reached 600 C either but you proclaim it happened. Yet deny dozens of witness accounts who were there!

[William Seger]

33. (A) Yes, there is evidence, and...

(B) none is really required, since that temperature would be virtually unavoidable in an ordinary office fire. That's exactly why fireproofing is required.

[wildbilln864]

34. molten steel and free fall acceleration!

cannot happen unless it was CD. 2330 architects and engineers are more credible than you!

[William Seger]

37. My credibility is irrelevant

My knowledge of these subjects comes from actual experts, whose expertise I accept due to the evidence-based and logical reasoning they use to support their opinions and claims, not just their credentials. Which is precisely what's missing from Gage's "experts."

[wildbilln864]

38. those "experts" are lying to you!

Right phd's and chemists and physicists with decades of experience and training have no credibility because the frauds you believe say otherwise. Fail again! Their not Gage's experts. They speak out because they know their business.

[William Seger]

40. And 99.99% of their professional peers ignore them

[wildbilln864]

43. means nothing!

They haven't spoken up about any political issues of any consequence. They didn't complain when Bush stole the election or when Bush & company lied us into wars either. all that confirms is they're just cowardly or are profiting or not paying attention. Or just don't want to get involved.

[William Seger]

45. It means they can't make a case

... that can withstand expert scrutiny. If they could, they would have some peer-reviewed papers to support their claims instead of just bullshit YouTube videos.