Blunt force trauma to the torso?

[question everything]

We know that older people fall. I've read someplace that we are losing nerve endings in our soles as we age and cannot adequately judge the ground under us.

Yes, happened to me once some years back.

Thus, I can see someone, including Ivana Trump losing her balance and falling down the stairs. In most cases people die by hitting their heads but how can a blunt force to the torso kill?

I am not talking "conspiracy" just curious. Would the kidneys? the spleen? a major blood vessel? be the cause?

[2naSalit]

1. It seems odd...

But it does depend on the stairs and how she fell. Perhaps there was some solid, ornate something on a landing that she slammed into or fell on her or...

Without seeing how it happened or more detailed description, it's impossible to say.

[PJMcK]

2. The coroner said she had a heart attack

Then she fell down the stairs.

I don't think there's a conspiracy in this story.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/15/politics/ivana-trump-cause-of-death-medical-examiner/index.html

[moniss]

5. The story keeps

changing. I for one do not believe that an elderly woman suffering from tremendous hip and leg pain is going to be putting on high heels. But all we are ever going to get is the "story".

[PJMcK]

6. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Got any?

The story about Ivana's death hasn't changed. It was an accident.

I did see a joke this morning: Wouldn't it be great if Donald and Ivana could be together again soon?

[moniss]

13. First of all

I made no "claims" as you put it. You are reading in to what I'm saying. The story about her death did change. They now claim she was up the stairs when she had a heart attack and then tumbled down the stairs. Unless they have security camera footage of the event they have provided no proof that she was up the stairs. They are making assumptions and conclusions based on those assumptions. But like you they desire a quick and easy explanation for things. The NYPD and the coroner are hardly strangers to "massaging" the facts because someone desires a particular conclusion.

It is entirely possible that an elderly woman put on high heels despite her friend having already said that she was in such pain from her hip and leg that she couldn't leave the house. Should it be examined? I say yes but you say no. It is not an "extraordinary claim" as you put it. It arises from the post incident statement of her friend who says Ivana made that statement in the last few days prior to the incident. The act of putting on that kind of shoe is quite contrary to normal behavior for someone in such pain that walking out of the house is too painful. There is no way, absent camera footage, for the coroner to say she had the heart attack prior to the "blunt force injury to her torso". Despite your belief, the heart attack doesn't leave a moment by moment time stamp. Elderly people can easily suffer a major impact to their body and then have a heart attack. She may have fallen down the stairs and may not have. I see no proof provided by the coroner nor an explanation for the shoes and therefore I reserve accepting their conclusion.

[PJMcK]

20. There's a coroner's report

Are you suggesting it's a cover-up? Did Ivana have security cameras in her home?

I linked to the CNN article. If you dispute it, that's your decision. Frankly, I don't care about the Trump family but I doubt that TFG had anything to do with her death. What would be the point? To delay his deposition? He'll still have to give it.

You're welcome to your own opinion, of course. Have a good week, moniss.

[moniss]

21. I have no idea where

you get the idea that I am saying the Orange Ruski was involved. I simply don't jump to conclusions like you and others and I have questions raised by statements made by those close to her. You would never last in any kind of scientific/analytic environment with your jumping to conclusions. I could care less about his deposition issues. It is irrelevant to the issues I raised.

[PJMcK]

22. Wow

After nearly 20 years on this site, you're the first person I've put on "Ignore."

Congratulations.

[LastDemocratInSC]

10. Someone diagnosed heart attack and called 911?

Who did that?

[question everything]

15. Thank you. This makes sense. I think that my question should have been phrased differently

regardless of Ivana. Can someone die from a blunt force trauma to the torso, even without falling?

Breaking bones which could perforate a soft organ?

[moniss]

3. I don't know why

people just accept that she fell down the stairs. The stairs may have had nothing to do with her "injuries". I'm not being conspiratorial I am saying that we have seen no evidence to prove that. All we know is "blunt force trauma to the torso". Which could be caused many different ways in many different circumstances.

[question everything]

16. Agree and it may have nothing to do with Ivana. The question should have been: can someone die from

blunt forces to the torso. I think that a broken bone perforating a soft organ could be.

[3catwoman3]

4. I have been trying to envision the mechanics of a fall...

…where most of the trauma would be to the torso.

Unless one fell down the stairs with your arms raised above your head, I would expect the arms, at least to some extent, to somewhat shield the torso.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

7. Broken ribs

Can puncture lungs and arteries. Delicate but highly vascularized organs such as the liver and spleen can rupture, causing rapid blood loss.

[Warpy]

8. Falls down the stairs can kill

Shoot, broken hips are 50% fatal within six months for people over 60, even with fast hip replacement and good rehab. Younger people can bounce back from physical trauma. Old folks, not so much. We need to kick and claw our way back, if we have the energy.

Chances are she had multiple rib fractures, maybe fractures to the spine and pelvis. She might also have torn an artery or lacerated her liver. We don't know and we won't know.

It was a nasty way to go. It might even have been suicide, her husband died not too long ago.

I will always appreciate one story about her. After the divorce, TFG spent his time trying to chisel away at child and spousal support. He threatened to sue her for custody. Junior was home that day, so she packed him up and sent him to TFG's office. TFG, who thought fatherhood began and ended with sperm donorship, sent him right back and didn't use that threat again.

She had ovaries of steel.

[luvs2sing]

9. This brings exhausting flashbacks..

of my aunt who, at 86 and in pretty good health, went into cardiac arrest and fell down the stairs. Coroner said she was dead before she hit the ground. Her death certificate mentioned blunt force trauma to torso, and her crazy daughter (rabid Trumper and conspiracy theory addict) swore she had been pushed down the stairs by some mysterious someone and demanded an investigation into her mother’s murder. Fortunately, it was easy to put together her schedule that morning, who she had seen and talked to and when, and dispel that nonsense.

[question everything]

18. I am sorry about your loss. Bad enough to lose a relative but then to be subjected to crazy claims.

[OAITW r.2.0]

11. I tripped over my firepit a few weeks ago.

Walking backwards untaggling a water hose and tripped backwards. Bloodied my elbow, but hit corner of the iron flange/ring on my left backside of my ribcage. I would say I had a non-fatal case of blunt force trauma.

[question everything]

19. And this is the question. All of us fall and hit our torse in different parts, hurting, bruising

but non fatal. As others commented, a broken bone can perforate an organ.

[Midnight Writer]

12. Surely there are CCTV and staff at this plush condo that can tell if she had "visitors".

[brush]

14. It's unfortunate. If one can avoid stairs in old age...

the better off you'll be.

[vanlassie]

17. I keep thinking about how it was said to be a four story apartment.

Four stories. There had to be a lift. No way was she using stairs.