Electrical question about LED fixtures

[csziggy]

We recently changed out a small lighting fixture in our carport for two "shop" linear LED fixtures. They are VERY bright! The switch controlling them also controls a vintage fixture that takes one standard base bulb (currently a LED "bug" bulb) and an outlet. (Yeah, it not normal to have an outlet on a switch with light fixtures, but that is another story.)

I'm wondering if it is practical to put a dimmer switch on that set of lights. We seldom use the outlet but I am not sure how a dimmer would deal with it when we do.

Is it safe to put a dimmer on a circuit with an outlet?

[Phoenix61]

1. Not all LED lights are dimmable. I'd check

to see if the fixtures you have are dimmable.

[rampartc]

2. +1 that is the correct answer.

[csziggy]

8. Almost all the fixtures I am purchasing are dimmable

And Daylight (5000K). I can check the specs for the new fixture but I am pretty sure they are, too. Oh, and I am buying dimmable bulbs, too. With daylight equivalent, I want to be able to dim them.

These "shop" lights put our 5200 lumens each. With both on, the carport could be a stage and the light spills out to light the yard.

[SWBTATTReg]

3. I think you better read the literature on the lights, I seem to recall that dimmer switches don't ..

work on certain kinds of lights, but I can't remember 100% what it was, either the LED lights or something else. Maybe flor. lights? I just can't remember. Of course the dimmer switches will work on 'regular' lights, so I'm sorry I can't help you 100% here. Good luck.

Kind of hokey to put a dimmer switch on a line w/ an outlet. You perhaps could affect something negatively, e.g., have a freezer on that outlet, that the dimmer switch could negatively impact. Iffy if you ask me.

[csziggy]

9. Oh, well, after checking the literature for the fixtures, they are NOT dimmable

So we get to light up the neighborhood on the few ocassions that we leave the lights on at night.

Like I said, we seldom use that outlet. I used to use it for my now defunct golf cart, but not even that. The construction guys tried to use it, but it is on a 15 amp breaker and they kept tripping it. Just around the corner is the main box and under that is an outlet with a 20 amp breaker, so they used that one, mostly.

[beastie boy]

12. Do your fixtures have multiple light bulbs each?

If so, just removing one or more bulbs, if possible, may do the trick

[csziggy]

14. These are sealed, linear units with integrated LEDs.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/LED-Trail-LED-Trail-EZ-Mount-Tri-Proof-LED-Linear-Light-Linear-Shop-Light-Common-4-ft-Actual-4-in-48-in/1000808580

I specifically selected them since they are sealed - no worries about them filling up with bugs over the years. Plus they are water resistant so being out in a covered carport is not a problem. And I love the daylight color temperature. I'm getting old enough the slightly dim yellow light from many fixtures bothers my eyes.

[PoliticAverse]

4. Putting a dimmer switch in a place that controls an outlet most likely violates

your local electrical code.

Additionally not all LEDs are compatible with dimmers.

[Hokie]

7. I used to be a licensed electrical inspector and I agree

Putting a dimmer ahead of a receptacle is a no-no. Now you could unhook and remove the receptacle if you do not use it. It might also be possible to hook up the receptacle ahead of the switch (and dimmer) the way it should have been wired. It depends on how it is currently wired.

[csziggy]

16. Yes, closing off the outlet might have been a possibility

But since the fixtures are not dimmable, it's now irrelevant. I should have checked the specs before I asked my question.

We're doing additions (new living room and expanding the carport) and I've got about a hundred things I'm trying to keep track of. As much as possible, I am collecting the sheets that come with fixtures and the information online from the manufacturers, but the sheets for those two didn't get saved. I had to look the fixtures back up on the Lowe's site to double check.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/LED-Trail-LED-Trail-EZ-Mount-Tri-Proof-LED-Linear-Light-Linear-Shop-Light-Common-4-ft-Actual-4-in-48-in/1000808580

Saving all the info has been a good thing - I saved everything from when we built the house and that has helped me with the design and planning of the addition. Plus since we're changing out some of the old fixtures, knowing exactly what size holes were used originally helps with selecting the new ones. And now that I am changing all the light bulbs, I can look up which bulb bases and shapes should be used.

By the way, I HATE having that outlet switched with the lights. Complicated story why it happened, but to change it and put the outlet separate from the lights would involved taking the siding off, then putting it back on and repainting. Not gonna happen this decade.

[Turbineguy]

5. I would disconnect and blank off the outlet.

A dimmer could create high amperage in something plugged into a receptacle outlet. Also, modern dimmers use switching (pulse width modulation) rather than a simple resistor in series with the load. This would be a problem with just about anything except an incandescent lamp.

Also, if the circuit has 2 switches, the dimmer would not work.

And the LED lamps have to be capable of operating on a dimmer circuit. Many are not.

LED Fixtures come in many sizes and brigthess, why not take the shop light back and trade for a smaller model?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

6. Yes, DO check. But LEDs frequently run pulsed anyway. CFLs are not dimmable at all. . . . nt

[csziggy]

10. We do have some CFL bulbs that are dimmable

And installed the correct dimmers to work with them. But now that LEDs are more affordable and there are more options, we are replacing every CFL bulb with LED - and replacing some fixtures with integrated LED ones. I'm tired of having to wait an extended time for the CFLs to get to full output, plus the color is really yellow.

And of course, replacing the old CFL compatible dimmers with LED compatible ones.

All the CFL bulbs we have, both used and unused (I ordered boxes for the house, some of which were not used) will be donated to Habitat for Humanity. I had also gotten cheap incandescent bulbs to test fixtures when they were building the house. Some were never replaced and are still working but they are the cheapest bulbs I could find at the time and put out poor quality light.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. OK I stand corrected. . . nt

[csziggy]

13. I checked and these are the only fixtures I bought that are not dimmable

In my best Emily Litella voice, "Never mind."

The switch is one pole, so that is not a problem.

I searched long and hard for linear lights that could be used outside and that were sealed. These are both. Since we're having an electrician do the work, I don't want to change them out. They are just brighter than expected.

Last night was the first time we had them on at night and we were surprised at how bright they are. My husband likes it since they light up the yard. I was just exploring the possibilities.

[Kali]

15. not sure what they look like but maybe there is a filtered lens or some type of "shade"

that could darken the output?

[csziggy]

17. Hmmm, that is a thought

Especially since LEDs don't get hot like the old fixtures. I'll have to look into that idea. Thanks, Kali!

[Kali]

18. I'm all about the "ranch-rigging"

I'm sure I could fix you up with an old feed sack and some baling wire.

[csziggy]

20. LOL! I might have some burlap around here!

And it would go with the theme of the carport ceiling, which is covered with old fence boards. Our two porches have cypress that was the barn siding we had salvaged before the old barn burned to the ground but we didn't have enough to do both parts of the carport (new and old).

We had a board fenced paddock that will be re-fenced so we went ahead and took down the boards and had them put up on the ceilings. Pressure treated 1" x 6" x 16' boards with weathering, mildew, and mold looks kind of neat used that way. It's not as pretty as the cypress siding, but it is consistent with the theme.

So burlap and baling wire would fit right in!

[Kali]

21. oooh! I bet that does look pretty.

I don't know how people get remodeling done. I have had a new stove sitting in my living room for a year now. I just can't seem to coordinate the time, not needing to cook on the old stove, and most critical...the motivation to get the switch done. sigh!!!! if only the old one would completely die, I would have to do it but "it works for now" even though it won't hold the oven temp for shit, especially when baking (does fine if whatever is in there isn't critical). what is wrong with me????

[csziggy]

22. It's really neat looking in my opinion

I hate doing the addition but it had to be done. With my husband's mother and my mother both passing away in less than two years we inherited the extensive genealogical collections from both sides of the family - research and original photos and documents.

I was already overflowing my storage area for my needlework stuff, our library was almost full, and we had no where to put the genealogy. The original living/dining room was too small and too dark and we never used what had been designed as the "family" room.

So the family room will become the dining room - one the other end of a great room from the big farm kitchen. The old living room will be a studio/archive with workspace on one end and lots of shelves on the other. And the new part is a huge living room with windows on seven of the eight walls (we cut three corners off to put lots of windows in). It will have two sitting areas - a "den" with the TV, recliners, and comfy furniture, and a separate area with the older family furniture for more "formal" seating (my husband is calling it the "sitting room" while I think of it as a parlor).

Our push to get this done is that we are paying for two storage units for the stuff that didn't fit in the house and the stuff we had to take out for the remodel. But I am NEVER building again. We finished the house in 2008, just in time for the economy to crash, and we started this addition in February, right when Covid-19 took off and crashed the economy. My timing sucks, or as the contractor put it, I am a bellwether.

I'm not sure I could live with an unreliable stove! The one in my old house was off as far as temperature settings, just consistent about being 25 F hotter than the control read. That was easy to allow for.

Think of it this way - if you put in the new stove, you won't have to clean the old one again!

[Kali]

23. clean the old one again?

what do you mean?

[csziggy]

25. I know - I don't even use the self cleaning setting on my oven! nt

[Kali]

26. because the self-cleaning function doesn't clean up the grease and spills on the top!!!

WTF is up with that? self-cleaning, my ass. who cares about the inside of the oven? nobody looks in there!

[csziggy]

27. Sometimes I have so much grease, if I ran self cleaning it would start a house fire

I have a separate wall oven and electric glass cooktop. That is SOOOOOO much easier to clean than the old electric stove I had in the other house!. After twelve years, there are a few spots where sugar burned and etched the glass, but with a black glass surface, it doesn't really show.

In normal times I have Molly Maids come once a month. Last year they did a deep clean which included cleaning the oven. I did not expect that! Once the construction is over, I will have them get me back on a regular schedule and deep clean once a year. I never was a good housekeeper - I'd rather shovel shit than clean house - but now I can't do either chore so the only way my house will get cleaned is to have someone come in.

[Kali]

28. oh yes, would love to have separate cooking functions.

I suspect the oven cleaning thing is good PR because...well...as we are noting, inside the oven isn't so bad!

I am either a total slob, or an obsessive q-tip the crevasses cleaner. can't just straighten or superficial clean. so of course mostly just do the slob side.

[csziggy]

29. Separate cooking functions is great

I mostly did it in this house since I was making the downstairs ADA compliant. I 'd just had my second knee surgery and was expecting to be wheelchair bound one day. The entire downstairs, including the shower in the master bath, is all wheelchair accessible.

The wall oven opens to the side and is set with the mid line about counter height. If I were in a wheelchair, I could set up the drawer next to the oven with a heat proof shelf and be able to slide containers out of the oven onto that. Even without being wheelchair bound I find the side opening oven to be very convenient.

I'm same as you - either extremely anal about getting everything perfect or having everything be a mess. My stalls, on the other hand, were always perfectly clean while the house stayed a mess 99% of the time. Having maids come in forces us to at least get stuff off the flat surfaces so the maids can clean them. Otherwise we create strata that would delight an archeologist!

[Kali]

30. I have never seen a side opening oven!

interesting. yeah, my sister uses a cleaning service sometimes - has to clean first before they come over. I doubt anybody would come all the way out here and I would be too ashamed anyway!

[csziggy]

31. I hadn't until I started research ADA information

An article about designing an ADA compatible house mentioned this oven. It was made by Frigidaire, so a standard company, and is convection as well as regular bake. It's a little small so I have to careful about which baking pans I buy but at this point in life I'm not buying pans anymore and the ones I own fit.

Then the way I got it was fun - I'd gone to a Sears appliance sale to buy my big refrigerator/freezer combo (16.7 cu.ft. each), all prepared with a contractor's price bid from a friend of mine. I paid less for those two appliances than a standard side-by-side fridge cost. Then the salesman asked about the rest of my appliances and I had not picked my dishwasher and didn't know they could order this oven. I mentioned the oven and he told me that if I bought two Frigidaire appliances, I would get a $500 rebate. With the sale they were 40% off already.

The cooktop came from Ikea but made by Whirlpool - they had a sale that if you bought two appliances, you got 20% off your cabinet order. So I ordered my cabinets, the cooktop and a pullout stove vent - then the sales lady messed up and gave me 20% the entire order.

My washer was a scratch & dent return, the dryer was a floor model being discontinued. I paid less for all my appliances than most people pay for just a fancy refrigerator/freezer combo.

[Turbineguy]

19. An excellent point!

We ended up putting a yellow LED lamp in the bathroom, much easier on the eyes when getting up from a deep sleep.

[csziggy]

24. I have a little LED nightlight plugged in next to the sink

It gs just enough light for me to do take of what I need to do in the middle of the night without waking me up much.

Just this morning my husband changed out most the bulbs in the house to 75 watt equivalent LEDs - it's a LOT brighter than it was and we don't have to wait for them to warm up. The regular style bulbs are all "warm white" and there will be downlights that will be daylight so we can chose which we want to be brightest.