what does it mean when an outlet goes dead?

[grasswire]

Suddenly, my bathroom's double plug outlet stopped working. The lights work, the wall heater works. But the plug-in outlet doesn't. How does this happen?

[NMDemDist2]

1. is it a GFI? maybe it just tripped (or the one 'upstream' tripped)

Last edited Fri Feb 24, 2012, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[hlthe2b]

3. Some electricians are doing some bizarre wiring things to save $$ vis-a-vis gfci outlets...

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I had this happen in my upstairs bathroom, yet there was no "reset" button on the outlet and I believed the previous residents when they said it had been working fine. FOrtunately before I got an electrician in, a neighbor pointed out that the gfci outlet might actually be in the downstairs bathroom and I would need to reset it there for the upstairs outlet to work..

I know I looked at them like they were crazy, but sure enough, they were right. So, to the OP, I recommend finding out if this or another outlet might be on the same circuit and which one is fitted with a reset button on its outlet.

[Robb]

6. I had a porch light on a house like that once.

In a heavy rain it'd sometimes go out. I'd go down to the basement, where, on the ceiling, there was a GFCI plug with the little red button. Once pushed, I had light again.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

7. It's kosher to load an additional non-gfci outlet off the gfci ....

....if the non-gfci is within, IIRC, 6 feet. I'm pretty sure the additional outlet should be on the same floor and maybe even in the same room. The logic in the code requirements is the gfci should be easily accesable to test monthly. Not that anyone really tests them monthly like they should.

[jeff47]

11. Actually, that's not bizarre...that's how they're designed to work

A GFCI outlet is designed to protect all "downstream" outlets. So having the reset button somewhere else is normal.

Newer building code requires the GFCI outlet to be close to the "downstream" outlets to avoid confusion. But old houses don't have to comply with newer code.

[hlthe2b]

13. I was told....

that had the original owners elected an "upgraded" electrical wiring package, that each of the bathrooms (or any other outlets on a GFCI) would have been individually fitted with a "reset" button. Is that true? I'd probably not have bothered either if there was extra expense involved, but it never occurred to me that a downstairs half-bath would override the main bathroom upstairs.

[jeff47]

15. The GFCI outlets were much more expensive

Back in the day, GFCI outlets were ~$60 each, when a normal outlet was ~$1. Today, the price difference isn't as large.

So back in the day, you'd minimize the GFCI outlets to save money, so you'd wire them like this:

Panel ---- GFCI ------ (branch to several normal outlets)

So, one GFCI outlet then had a bunch of "normal" outlets downstream from it. If one of the normal outlets tripped the GFCI, you'd have to reset the GFCI outlet, even if it's in another room.


Now that the GFCI outlets aren't so expensive (~$10), and code requires them to be close to their downstream outlets anyway, you'll often wire like this (ignore the periods. Have to use 'em to make stuff line up):

Panel ----\-------\------\-------\
............GFCI.....GFCI....GFCI.....GFCI

Each GFCI outlet is independent - tripping one outlet won't cut power to the others.


So what it sounds like is they were offering the upgrade of wiring the house in the second manner, where there are independent GFCI outlets. It is not possible to reset a GFCI outlet without pushing the button on the outlet.

[hlthe2b]

16. ah, I see... thanks

[cui bono]

19. This post just solved my problem!

Thank you!!!

Kitchen GFCI controlled some living room outlets. Would never have thought to check if I hadn't read your post. This thread came up in a startpage search for "outlet stopped working".

Yay!

[hlthe2b]

20. LOL... I scarcely remember posting it, but yeah... I'm glad you didn't waste $$ on an electrician!

[ret5hd]

4. it's gfci...ground fault circuit interrupt.

not quibbling nor acronym-nazi-ing, just informing.

[NMDemDist2]

5. right you are!!! i had a couple of the right letters in there anyway

[cbayer]

2. Does it have a circuit breaker on it (small red button usually).

A lot of bathroom outlets have these.

If not, I would turn off the juice to the area and remove it. It might just have a loose wire or it may need to be replaced. It's pretty easy to do this.

[grasswire]

8. problem solved

Yes, indeed, there is another outlet with a red button in the next room. All is well now. Thanks for the input everyone!

[NMDemDist2]

9. YAY!

isn't it nice to have a no cost fix and to learn a bit about the house in the process?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. I read an eletrician online comment how this is his favorite service call.

$75 bucks to re-set the tripped gfci.

[jeff47]

12. Just to list some other possible problems

Since someone looking for help may find this post:

* Check all GFCI plugs (the ones with buttons in them in kitchens and bathrooms, usually one button is red). - what happened here.
* Check for GFCI or arc fault circuit breakers in the electrical panel (The breaker will have a 'test' button in addition to the usual lever switch)
* Check that the plug itself is well-secured. The wires can disconnect from a lose plug.
* Check lightswitches in the same room - That switch that "doesn't do anything" may actually turn off the outlet. Also, as switches fail they may only make contact when they are flipped. If it only works when the lightswitch is at an odd position, DO NOT try to get the switch to stick in that odd position. The switch needs to be replaced.
* Try another device in the same plug or the same device in a different plug - the light or appliance you were using may have failed.
* If your house was built approximately in the late 60's to 70's you may have aluminum wiring. That in and of itself isn't a huge problem, but a copper-wiring plug may have been installed on the aluminum wiring, resulting in the aluminum disconnecting from the plug. You'll need an electrician to fix this properly.

If you don't know what you're doing, DO NOT mess with any part of your electrical system that's behind a cover.
If you think you know what you're doing, DO NOT mess with any part of your electrical system that's behind a cover. Only open something up if you know exactly what you're doing - electrical parts have names like "Dead Man" for a reason.

[grasswire]

14. good advice

And pretty much my motto. Don't mess with what can kill ya. This apartment is architect-designed and well finished; the remodel was done by his sons within the last ten years. I've noticed a few other glitches. But nothing involving electricity.

[cui bono]

18. Wow! I'm glad I found this thread from my search for outlet stopped working.

I would never have thought that the GFI outlet in my kitchen next to the sink would have anything to do with outlets in my living room and nook above the stairs, which is where I found out I had some dead outlets since my modem turned off. Initially I figured the modem had just died. Turns out all it was was a tripped GFI!

Wish I found out before I struggled to pull the refrigerator out from the wall so I could get it unplugged and into an outlet that worked. Still, good deal as I was leaving town and didn't want my house to catch fire if it was a loose connection or something fried.