Kitchen Cabinet input requested.

[Melissa G]

I ran a thread in Cooking and Baking and talked to some friends and they were pretty much talking me into Ikea cabinets for my kitchen redo.

Last weekend I put in some Ikea wardrobes in my utility room and talked myself out of putting Ikea cabinets in my kitchen.

Ikea is just particle board and I have trouble spending money on it and thinking it is a good idea.

Any IKEA alternatives (preferably real wood) that folks here have used?


C&B thread in case you want history:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11574076

[Angry Dragon]

1. Many lumber yards sell kitchen cabinets

and they usually carry more than one line

[Melissa G]

2. Yes, I put some in from Home Depot

in my previous kitchen. I was just looking for recommendations from folks who had actually shopped and bought some different lines.

[Angry Dragon]

3. A lot depends on how much you are planning to spend

Do you want backs??
Thickness of sides??

[Melissa G]

4. I'm open to being educated.

Are backs important? What would you recommend for sides? I 'd, of course, like to spend as little as I can for good quality. I have wood now. I could just replace doors and the rotted out place under the sink.

I just know that I prefer not to go the particle board route. Sometimes it's good to repair and sometimes, it is even cheaper/ better to replace. I thought I would ask here.

[Angry Dragon]

5. The cheaper cabinets will be made from particle board

and may or not be backless. Cabinets made with backs are usually stronger.
If your cabinets are in good shape and are happy with the wood species then I would suggest just replacing the rotted parts and either resand the cabinets and doors to change stain or sand cabinets and replace door style.

I used to work for a national cabinet chain and they carried 3 cabinet lines. A good new kitchen could cost $20,000 and more. That would be with 5/8" cabinet sides made with plywood. I have seen doors cost more than the cabinet itself.

[fierywoman]

54. If your wooden cabinets are solid there are many things you could do to

renew them:
--new doors

--paint them (inside and out)

-- replace shelves with sliding shelves/drawers

--(replace the rotted out place under the sink)

-- new door knobs for a different look

etc

[Warpy]

6. I agree, visit a good lumberyard or Lowe's or Home Depot

There's usually a good selection of wood cabinets there, along with veneered particle board with wood doors, a more economical choice.

I'll be looking for particle board, myself, because this arid climate is really tough on wood.

[Melissa G]

7. Thanks, I was hoping for a brand name

that someone here liked.

[Warpy]

9. Find something you like, instead

You can tell which is solid and which tends to be flimsy from floor displays.

This is one case where you need to suit yourself. You're going to be living with it for a very long time.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Here's an idea: Home Depot sells, online only, a line of cabinets under the Hampton Bay name.

Disclaimer: I have a few vicodins in me for the gout so nevermind the spelling and/or . well, anything.


The real maker is All Wood Cabinets out of Florida. Costco also sells the All Wood Cabinets under the Costco name. My understanding is the pricing is similar - you can get a quote from both but you have to request it through both sites separately. They offer free design service and are pretty friendly.

I installed a large kitchen full of these cabinets in a friend's place last year and they are happy with the cabinets.

It was a large kitchen with 4 work spaces and an island. The total with taxes and delivery was about $8800 bucks. That included a lot of goodies like pot drawers and roll out shelves, glass mullion doors, light rail and crown molding I ended up sending back and color matching my own (for size reasons). It appears the deals have gotten a little better. Last I looked they were offering 20% off and free shipping over a certain order amount. We recieved 10% and payed approx. 500 bucks for shipping.

I priced out a similar floor-plan from their semi-custom special order cabinets and the quote was in the low teens including plywood (a $2500 upgrade) boxes. 6-8 weeks plus turn around time.


I consider the Hampton Bay cabs to be a middle of the road option price-wise and fairly good quality (plywood boxes etc.). My one regret is we maybe should have upgraded the hardware to soft close doors and drawers only because that got you BLUM hardware which is a quality name for cabinet makers. In our case the up-charge was going to be approx. $1000 bucks for this large kitchen. I think Costco was offering free upgrade but the pricing was a little higher, IIRC. This falls in to the "nothing is really free" category. As it was, the kitchen was intended for two adults - a large family might cause more wear and tear on the hardware.

We went with the cinnamon spice color. I think you are better off with lighter shades on low to middle end cabs as darker colors sometimes do not look great on a budget cabinet. For instance, the cabernet sample we received was showing some show-through around the edges of the door panels. A higher end cabinet would have the panels finished before assembly. A lower end cabinet will show around the panel edges when the doors expand and contract with the seasons. A lighter stain won't highlight the problem.

Hampton Bay ships in 10 days as they are all off their shelf.

I priced out Hampton cabinets for my mother in law around christmas and came in with a quote for, IIRC, about $3k for a smaller kitchen.

Mother in law went with off the shelf in-store American Classic Home Depot cabinets for about $2500. $2000 after they went on sale while we had the order placed. They went on sale for 20% off while we were waiting for delivery. You really have to watch for it because they take them on and off sale. I had a gut feeling they would go back on sale. I even called American Classic and they were pretty cagey and not forthcoming with any future sale info. Even though they can be prurchased off the shelf, we ordered them and had them delivered just so we wouldn't be picking through the racks and short a cabinet or two. Same price with like ten days turn around time which was perfect for us while we did demo and electrical/plumbing. It's nice to not have to order cabs 6-8 weeks out and have a change of heart or a surprise.

I was really against the Home Depot off the shelf American Classics because of the particle board and MIL's choice of oak. The kitchen has really grown on me - even the oak. For them, they should get good use out of the cabinets because it's just the two of them (68 and 78 years old) and they take really good care of their things.

On the lower end, you will see RTA (ready to assemble) Shrock at Menards. HD also has an RTA line but the name escapes me. I would steer clear of RTA cabs (including Ikea).

I prefer a cabinet with a face frame for a more quality look. Most of the RTA cabs are frameless.

Hint: the American Classics offer real plywood veneer "skins" for the sides of exposed cabinets for dirt cheap prices, IIRC, 15 bucks. The skins really knock the look up a couple notches (versus the print faux paper wood grain). Also, the skins make the cab squared off because they fill that 1/8th inch reveal space on the sides of the cabs. Makes the crown go up easier. I wish we had done that on the Hampton cabinets (not sure if Hampon's are real veneer wood.

Friend's kitchen:



color matching the stain. We wanted a smaller crown so we sent back Hampton's crown and bought some 2 1/4 pine crown and had the local paint shp get us really close with a match:


Momma's kitchen:



with the light rail and crown installed:



Momma's old kitchen we face-lifted (counter top sink and backsplash) in the spring before they freaked out and decided they had to down size. Can you say set in your ways? :

[Melissa G]

10. Oh, Hassin, this was just the kind of info

I was hoping for! Thanks so much!
Costco did not occur to me. I would have forgotten to look there.

Thanks for the advice on the stains and the lower end cabinets.
I was leaning towards the new mahogany color at Ikea, so that is good for me to keep in mind.

I really like your friend's kitchen. What is a face frame?

Thanks again for all the helpful info and the lovely illustrative pics!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

11. Some darker cabinets may be better than others.

That may be a question for the manufacturer - is the panel, if any, pre-finished?

I've seen the issue on several occasions though. Last year I was in a higher-end bathroom fixture store. One of their cabinet displays was a burgandy-ish cabinet. The whole display looked like someone whent and painted a border around all the panels. I can only assume I saw it before they could change it out. It was awful - especially for a display item.

The Hampton Bay cabernet showed a bit of lighter area around the panel edges so we passed on that. As it was, my friends had worked with a designer (prior to my involvement) and picked a lighter cinnamon maple cabinet anyway.


Re: Face frames. A face frame is the frame around the front of the cabinet where the hinges are hung - usually 2 inch or 2 1/2 inch wide.

Frameless will sometimes be referred to as European. It looks good with some contemporary styles as it allows a tight fit between adjoining doors and drawers for a "monolithic" front.

Most of the RTAs will be frameless. Ikea, Cabinets To Go etc.

My friends did Ikea cabinets several years ago and were not happy. Parts of the cabinets started to delaminate within a couple years. My friends were under the impression the cabs were still under warranty. Much to their chagrin, they found out it was the hardware that had the long (lifetime?) warranty. I'll say the hardware WAS quality. I can't recall if it was Blum.

Good lord, wiki has has an article on EVERYTHING. LOL. I googled it and wiki showed up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_frame

Framelss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frameless_construction

RTA - Knock down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTA_furniture


I prefer face frame. It gives, imo, a more furniture look.

Re: Costco. I think you need to check the website. Last time I was in the store I asked, out of curiosity to see if they displayed the cabs, and got a glazed over look from the counter person. The only way I found out about the link was when the lady at "Hampton Bay" said something like "you have to check with Costco... er I mean Home Depot." I found a Costco forum that I read prior to ordering.

http://addictedtocostco.com/2010/01/15/guest-post-kitchen-cabinets-from-all-wood-cabinetry/

The reviews seemd pretty good. Most of the negative comments were regarding shipping damage but most of the commenters agreed Allwood sends out replacements pretty fast (they ask you to email a photo of the damage). We had one minor screw up - they sent a mullion (glass insert) door with the hinge holes drilled on the wrong side. Then they sent the wrong replacement size. It worked out great though as I used the spare parts and cut them up to make the recessed cabinet you see in the photo (next to the window).

IIRC, most of their damge was due to using cut-rate carriers before moving to Fed Ex. Ours showed up via Fed Ex ground on a semi. No damage.

[Melissa G]

12. I'll check into Costco next week

I have a lot of family eldercare this weekend. When I come back up for air, I'll go see what Costco has to offer.

Thanks for all your excellent advice!

[Melissa G]

16. Thanks Tesha,

I have friends who went the Ikea route and were very happy. Myself, I'm just a wooden cabinet kind of gal. I did Home Depot cabinets on my first kitchen redo and was not happy with the wear of the particle board.

I have done a lot of shopping at Ikea lately. I just put in a wall full of Wardrobes in my utility room.

Glad your kitchen is holding up so well. What color did you go with? Is that the same color you would do again?

[Melissa G]

18. Thanks for the update

A white washed birch is one of the looks, I'm considering. Glad it held up for you!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I'm having my kitchen remodeled and was going to get IKEA cabinets

until a bunch of different people, including two carpenters, an architect, a real estate agent and my very handy brother, talked me out of it. Everybody said they are flimsy and don't hold up well. I think they look nice, but evidently they are not all that well-made. Also, you have to put them together yourself, or they will do it for about $100 per cabinet (which makes up for the lower cost of the cabinets themselves).

You don't have to spend a fortune on custom cabinets, though. I've found several sources for pre-made, good quality cabinets, just haven't decided on anything yet. Even Home Depot and Lowe's have some decent-quality stuff. There's a local lumber company that I will be talking to as well.

[Melissa G]

21. Yeah, I've come to the No IKEA conclusion as well.

The IKEA hardware is good.. but the cabinets not so much. Similar folks as yours gave me the same story.

When you come to your conclusion about cabinets please let me know. I've having hell getting my house leveled, so that is slowing down my process. Much more time for research and design.

I decided that the end of my house that does not have hardwood floors aka the den and the garage conversion is going to be stained concrete for now.

Still trying to figure out the kitchen and bathrooms. I'm trying to list things to avoid.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. I'm glad they are working out for you.

But, except for my brother (who is inclined to be a know-it-all), all those folks are far more knowledgeable than I about such things, and none of them has a vested interest in getting me to buy or not buy a certain sort of cabinets, so I guess I'll trust them and stay away from IKEA's. I do have several IKEA items of furniture that are quite sturdy, but I also have a medicine cabinet I got from them and it is a piece of junk - I've had it for only a few years and it's already starting to delaminate around the edges and the hinges are sagging. Maybe the kitchen stuff isn't like that but I've become skeptical.

[Kolesar]

24. We bought Kraftmaid in December because their blind cabinets had *great* features

It had roll out drawers so we could store pans way back in the corner. They are easy to get to!
The tall wall pantry with rollout drawers was pretty super, too.

http://www.kraftmaid.com

[Melissa G]

25. Thanks, I'll check it out

next time I make it in to Home Depot. Looks good!

[we can do it]

50. Another vote for Kraftmaid.

We completely remodeled kitchen in 2016. Really like Kraftmaid got quite a lot off maple cabinets.

[Hula Popper]

26. Kitchen cabinets......

Hello Melissa,
Cabinets come in all grades so its your choice what you purchase. When you're looking and speaking with sales personnel, look at shelf thickness, find out if plywood or MDF. Determine number of supports for each shelf and how many sides each cabinet has. Ask to see a sample of veneer thickness....( a dollar bill is approx.004" ) Some manufacturers use .015" with a UV coating. Watch for paper peeling also! (Wood grain printed paper.) Pergo is an example of thin MDF with coated paper adhered to it. Look at edges of doors , drawers or backers.
I personnally won't shop at Ikea, especially since their publiczed labor dispute with their US employees.
Perhaps you could find a retired cabinet maker or recently laid off craftsman.
Best of luck.

[Melissa G]

27. Thanks for the good advice

I will follow it. I am checking out local craftsmen and will look at all the points you mentioned. I am avoiding MDF if possible.

[ohheckyeah]

28. I highly recommend you check out local

cabinet makers. The cabinets in our kitchen were custom made and when we wanted to add a cabinet to a previously empty wall we called a local cabinet maker. He matched our solid wood cabinets perfectly and did a great job. We were able to customize our cabinet including adding a wine bottle holder and wine glass holder on one end and the drawers on the other end were sized to my specifications so I could lay my place mats flat in the drawer. I don't think it was any more expensive than trying to buy a new cabinet and matching the stain. The original cabinet maker was out of commission due to an injury but his price was in line with the one who actually did the large cabinet for us.

The cabinet maker who did our cabinet did my sister's whole kitchen and it was beautiful and reasonable price wise.

[Melissa G]

29. I will take that good advice as well

This whole project is stringing out way too long since my leveling guy is taking forever to come over.

[ohheckyeah]

30. Good luck....

these things can be quite stressful.

[obama4ever11]

31. ikea

Ikea is cheap and easy...you get what you pay for

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. Yep. Ikea is junk. Why anyone would use their screw together crap in a major reno is beyond me.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. Don't know why you felt the need to attack me?

I stand by my opinion of IKEA. It's junk. I've been building cabinets for myself and friends/family for 20 plus years. Been rehabbing homes (my own personal) for 20 plus years. Built additions from the ground up. Worked my way through school (and three years after) framing, pouring and finishing concrete.

Don't know much about you but what you post here. I know a joist isn't a "joyce" though. I know how to spell (ought) which is also important in putting together a budget and a plan.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. Well, as it turns out I had to give up and get IKEA cabinets.

Got some estimates for both stock and custom ones from other sources, but just couldn't afford them. So IKEA it is - and I saved a bundle. They've been installed, and the countertops are going in tomorrow. And actually I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the hardware. I'm not crazy about particle board, but since I don't have a bunch of kids running around slamming doors and drawers - it's just me - I figure they will hold up well enough. They have a 25-year warranty, and I'll probably be in an old folks' home by then.

You have to go with what you can afford. I didn't want to bust my budget, and getting less expensive cabinets means I don't have to settle for formica-type countertops, which I really don't care for. So all's well. I like the cabinets. I'm happy.

[Melissa G]

37. What kind of counter tops did you go with?

Hardware from Ikea is supposed to be great. It's just the blankety blank particle board that I have concerns with, but if it never gets wet, you should not have a problem.

Same deal recently for me on a floor remodel. Time and money became of the essence and despite my dislike of MDF, I put in a laminate floor from Lumber Liquidators. It was relatively cheap and easy and looks great. Since it is just me using the room, I was willing to risk it.

Glad you are happy with your kitchen. Post pics if you have them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. I'm getting Cambria, "Parys."

Looks like this, only sparklier: http://store.cambriausa.com/samples/parys-sample

They are installing it tomorrow. I'll post a pic when the countertops and appliances are in. I very seriously considered getting laminate floors, too, but I went with bamboo - it's pretty and turned out to be fairly inexpensive.

I learned something about kitchen remodeling: It will cost more and take longer than you think it will...

[Melissa G]

39. Good Choice

that is one of the ones that I really liked, too.

Take longer and cost more...Is that not the story of almost all construction?

[jeannemara]

48. RE: laminate flooring

Hi,
depending on the brand of laminate, it can be better and stand up better than wood. We have a 115 pound dog and two cats, never mind grandchildren and great-grandchildren running around and we got the laminate in some areas because it will stand up to them better than hardwood

[rubycoleman]

40. My Kitchen Cabinet

Even you can get it online.. I have recently renovated my kitchen by installing cherry kitchen cabinets, you can check it out..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. OK, the damn thing is nearly finished.

It's been in the works since March - they pretty much tore off the back third of my (very old) house and built it back up from the foundation. The old kitchen was so awful I didn't even want to photograph it, but here's the new one. The backsplash and shades go in next week but otherwise it's done. I still have to put some stuff back (microwave, toaster, coffee maker) so the counters aren't as cluttered as they soon will be. Cabinets are IKEA, counters are Cambria, floor is bamboo. So far I totally love it.

[Melissa G]

42. It's gorgeous!

Thank you so much for posting!

I just put in some 2 and a half in faux wood blinds and i really like the look. Are you going to do window coverings in this room?

The counter tops and sink look especially lovely!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. Thanks! Yes, I'm getting window covering - those cellular shades.

I seriously considered the kind you mentioned also, but concluded they wouldn't fit as well. Do you have photos?

[Melissa G]

44. My shades are in a den type room that was a garage conversion

I'm kinda going with a mild Caribbean beach/eclectic theme in my house. I have some large IKEA cabinets with white doors that I put in that end of the house (den and laundry room/funky 3/4 bath) and the alabaster blind color went perfect with them.

The blinds look like the second ones in the bathroom shot here in an alabaster color
http://www.3dayblinds.com/blinds/Faux_Wood_Blinds/overview.aspx

The Pax cabinets are a birch effect with doors that look like this
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S39894777/#
I got the cabinets for cheap off craigslist and paid retail for the doors. I'm happy with the look and the storage capacity.

I thought about the cellular shades. I have some arched windows at my office and I may put them in there. I bought another groupon.

I like Blinds.com better than 3 day blinds unless I have a groupon.

[hgl]

45. Best priced and quality cabinets All Wood Cabinets.com

I purchased my cabinets from All Wood Cabinets.com http://www.allwoodcabinets.comThey were cheaper than the retail stores and the quality was very good. They helped with the design and and gave some suggestions for a better design.
The cabinets come knock down or assembled, we got ours KD and our carpenter put them together. He said they went together with metal clips not like the cheap plastic connectors Ikea uses. They were shipped from their New Jersey warehouse and arrived in about 5 days.
I was very impressed with the cabinets I priced similar ones from HD and theirs were several thousand more dollars.

[jillan]

46. I did an Ikea kitchen and I am so happy with it. I love it! I got a great kitchen

for very little money.

But then again, I like the Euro look in cabinets where there is no space around the cabinet doors.
I did white, high gloss with bold, modern, stainless handles.

The thing about Ikea is that they have different quality products. If you pay a little more, you get better quality.

I looked elsewhere as well & I found places that were affordable, but for me the bottom line was compromising the retro modern look I was going for.

[hgl]

47. The original All Wood Cabinet Company

The original online All Wood Cabinet Company http://allwoodcabinets.com" target="_blank">All Wood Cabinets.Com was still the cheapest. What I like about their cabinets is I don't have to order skins because the exterior of the cabinets are finished same color as door, so is the inside. You just don't find that on most cabinets.
Anyway that is my experience with them i hope this helps.

[guillaumeb]

51. MDF, and many similar products, contain formaldehyde.

And it outgasses, which is that smell you notice.

I would always recommend wood cabinets.

If cost is a factor, and often it is, see if there is a habitat store in your area.

Good luck.

[MLAA]

52. Check this website out....

They have gorgeous cupboard fronts to put on the ikea basic skeleton cabinets 🙂

I will probably go this route in a new gust suite addition. Go with more affordable structure and cooler, more expensive fronts.


https://www.reformcph.com/us/designs/basis/

[leftieNanner]

53. Here's a vote AGAINST IKEA cabinets

My daughter had them (and IKEA appliances) in her last apartment and they were complete crap. I can see a landlord putting them in a rental space, but I don't think you want them in your house. Maybe search around your area for a cabinet maker who could build them for you and purchase the doors and drawer fronts.

We used a local shop when we remodeled our kitchen a number of years ago and they were beautiful and affordable.

I think Home Depot has various different lines with a range of price/quality.

That's all I got!

Good Luck.

[Tracer]

55. I know this is an old thread, but

here's some info for anyone planning a kitchen remodel.

I replaced all my (50-year-old) cabinets and bought them from Cabinets.com. They are all plywood with maple interiors, have soft-close and dove-tailed drawers, and a beautiful paint job.

They were also very helpful in making sure that I had all the pieces that I would need (I had forgotten fillers and such).

The best part -- they were affordable. I forget exactly, but a full kitchen of cabinets was around $6,800.