Sad post about my dog...when do you know

[Bettie]

it's time to say good bye.

We have a ten year old Pyrenees. He is a wonderful dog, got him from a rescue at a year old, he had been returned a few times, because apparently, people don't read about breeds before they adopt fluffy white dogs and they were not ready for the barking.

Anyway, he was limping when we got him, but then, he ran into a doorframe and his leg was back to normal, seems his shoulder joint was loose and it came out every so often, but went back into place easily.

This is to say when he started limping recently, we thought it was the usual thing.

It got worse and we took him to the vet. He has osteosarcoma in one of his front legs. We did two x-rays and the void in the bone doubled in size in a week.

We talked about chemotherapy....the vet was honest with us. In a dog his age, we could buy a few weeks or a month for thousands of dollars and we'd have to amputate his leg. She also said that in a hundred pound dog of his age, it would be very hard for him to adjust.

I trust and believe this vet. She cried with us as she told us...

So, how do we know when to let go? Do I wait until he can't walk anymore? Or until it impairs his breathing? Right now,. he's still able to get around, but it gets worse every day. He still makes it up the stairs at night to sleep next to our bed, he still moves to "guard" the doorway of any room I'm in and, according to DH and the one kid at home, is very anxious when "Mama" isn't home.

So, I know it isn't yet...but I don't even know what to look for.

Thanks. Sorry for the downer post.

[hlthe2b]

1. I know you want to time things when it is best for your beloved dog. So, I don't think it would help to be

anything but both sympathetic and frank with you. To the latter, osteosarcoma is both intensely aggressive and just about the most painful form of cancer there is, and even narcotics, cannabis, and ketamine infusions just don't touch it on the long term. Further, though amputation is normally step 1 to buy a little more time, that may not be very useful in the forearm where the cancer is in the shoulder, as it may be in the scapula too. Regardless forelimb amputations are not easy for an old dog to recover from in the best of circumstances.

So, while I know how hard this will be, I'd urge you to take those principles to your veterinarian and together agree on when is right--whether now or in the not-distant future.

I'm sorry. But, you want to allow yourself to remember your pet in better times-- not when the pain is intractable.

[Bettie]

17. We have talked to her

and she did say that given his age, it will be soon....but he's got a lot worse over the last week and it doubled in size from one week to the next.

Right now, he's enjoying things, but we are watching closely. He still forgets sometimes (squirrels taunt him), but it is sad to see my active boy so subdued.

[hlthe2b]

18. I wish you all the best...

Most of us have been through this. We know the pain...

[lapfog_1]

2. They will let you know

The pain will show in their eyes... and you will know that it is time.

Another post here recently stated that you should stay with them until the very end, because they sense that they are dying and look for the people that loved them and took care of them

My father held the head of his best friend... his horse "Major" as the vet euthanized him... something I will never forget.

[ms liberty]

5. This.

[Bettie]

6. We will all be there

my two older kids who live about an hour away have said they will make sure that they are with us as well.

So, he'll have all five of us with him, at the vet's office in that tiny room....they are aware that it will be crowded.

[crimycarny]

27. Our beloved Flat Coated Retriever let us know

I suffered the same agonizing question with our beloved Flat Coated Retriever, Chewie. He didn't have cancer, he was just very old and it was getting harder and harder for him to walk. One morning my husband woke up and couldn't find Chewie anywhere in the house. He looked outside and saw Chewie lying on the ground by the dog door. He was unable to get up to get back inside. That's when we knew. You could see it in his eyes, he was ready to go.

We were lucky that we had found a Hospice Vet months previously who would check in on Chewie from time to time and so she was ready--basically "on call"--for the inevitable. Chewie's death was extremely peaceful, surrounded by the family. The euthanasia process is very gentle, I kept asking the vet if she was sure Chewie was gone and he just looked as if he had fallen asleep.

I'm so sorry.

[samnsara]

29. there are vets who will do at home euthanasia..

..its so much better for the pet and the family.. ive had three done this way

[slightlv]

24. I agree with this...

The pain will show in their eyes... and you will know that it is time.

You'll still argue with yourself, but if you listen to your gut and look deeply in his eyes, you'll know. Hubby and I had arguments when it came time for our Border Collie. We went back and forth for a week, but when I saw him try to get on the couch the last time and saw his entire back end collapse and heard him whimper, I knew the time was right then. He'd been too good a friend to let him suffer any longer. To his credit, hubby stopped arguing and agreed with me, although it tore the both of us apart. The only thing I regret is that the vet led us out of the room, rather than letting us stay there with him. I think he thought it'd be easier on us, but to this day I feel regret and kick myself for not being less emotional and more of an advocate. I'd have given anything to have even 5 more minutes with him.

[brer cat]

3. I'm so sorry you and your dog are going though this.

My feelings have been to leave them be as long as they seem comfortable. If pain is apparent, I think it is time to end their suffering. Good luck!

[True Dough]

4. Very sorry to hear about this, Bettie

One of our neighbors down the road has adopted rescue greyhounds over many years. The last one she took in had an osteosarcoma detected at age 8 (she got him at age 6).

The vet told her he would not survive more than three months. After about two weeks, he developed some very disturbing irregular/labored breathing. She took him back in and decided that was the time for the final needle.

There's no right answer, of course.

Wishing you all the best at this difficult time.

[skylucy]

7. I'm so sorry, Bettie.

[Farmgirl1961]

8. So sorry you are having to deal with this

It's always a matter of quality of life vs quantity. We've had to make this incredibly difficult decision a couple of times with our cats. In retrospect, we probably waited a little too long -- and it was more of a selfish decision on our part (in that we weren't ready to say goodbye). In the end, you don't want your furry family member to suffer and it sounds like osteosarcoma spreads quickly and causes distress quickly. Do you know if you can make an appointment with your vet quickly, if need be? If so, I say go day-by-day and assess quality. Animals can be stoic and hide their pain, but you will notice changes in their disposition and habits. It sounds like it's not time yet; cherish the time you have together and the time he is not in pain....

[Midnight Writer]

9. I go with "quality of life". Is he happy? Is he showing enjoyment of life? Is he in obvious and severe pain?

The purpose of euthanasia is to spare him the pain of a lingering death. If he is still doing his usual activities and showing interest in what is going on around him, I'd give him more time.

A vet once told me he's rather put down a pet a week too early rather than a day too late. The end stage of cancer is not something you want to put the poor guy through.

I know it is a tough decision. I've agonized over it many times. Sometimes they will give you a look from their eyes that they've had enough. It is heartbreaking, but part of your obligation to a pet that has given you unconditional love.

Good luck to you. I hope the best for all of you.

[Karadeniz]

10. If hes eating and happy to sse you, he feels good.

[piddyprints]

11. So sorry, Bettie.

He did well to make it to 10! Wow! Ours only made it to 6 before developing stomach cancer.

Does he still eat?

We have had to make the decision for many pets, one as recently as last month. He stopped eating just the day before, although he had been slowing down. He spent a lot of time in his little "house" when we weren't with him, but he always came out for cuddles and visits. That morning, he was in his house, butt out. He didn't even have the strength to turn around and face out. That was our clue. The strange thing was that he never looked sick like some of the others did. Except for his behavior and not eating, he looked healthy. My husband wanted to get blood work and x-rays done, but the vet said they wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know. He had been in kidney failure for 2 years and it didn't matter what else was going on at that point.

I wouldn't know how to describe how you will know, except to say that you will. He might stop eating or have a pained look in his eyes. Maybe he won't be able to make it up the stairs. Maybe he won't be able to go outside. Whatever it is, you'll know.

My heart goes out to you. I know the pain, both of the loss and wanting so much to get it right.

[Bettie]

16. He does still enjoy his treats and

he nibbles at his food.

He does cry a little bit at night, but he also sometimes forgets he's hurt and runs to bark at his archenemies the squirrels.

Our small (older than him) dog stays very close to the big one.

[Bayard]

12. I'm glad to meet a fellow Pyr lover,

Even if its under such sad circumstances.

We've lost three of them to cancer (two were osteosarcoma) over the years. I don't know that its that prevalent in the breed--it seems to affect so many these days. Its the biggest reason I cook for my dogs. On the other hand, we have one guy now who is 13 years old--ancient for a Pyr, that we adopted when he was six. He's a little stiff, but still going strong. We also have a three year old girl. All were rescues.

I'm so sorry to hear about your good boy. I agree with others that they will let you know when its time to say a final goodbye. Also, to be with them when you do is so important. They know you are there and you love them. It comforts them.

We grieve with you.

[alittlelark]

13. Make an appt in a week or two.....last appt of the day.

Give him the best day of his life - steaks, park, friends……..you know what he loves. Ask the vet if they could do a home visit or start in the parking lot. My vet has a grassy area just beside her office that she can work in….

Make it The Best Day Ever.

[hot2na]

14. Every day is a blessing

I recently had to say goodbye to my Yorkie who was my faitful and loving companion of 15 years. I understand how difficult a time it is.

My advise is that you should look for things that give him enjoyment such as; a good meal or treats, the comfort of snuggling nearby his human family, the enjoyment of a walk, the feeling of the warm sun, the stimulation of smelling the earth, the sense that he is loved and cared for. If he can still take comfort in any of these things, it is reason to continue to enjoy the blessings his companionship.

You will know when it is time. Best wishes to you and your family.

[Laurelin]

15. I'm so sorry you're going through this

I euthanized a dog in February and a cat in July. I probably waited too long both times. It's a wrenching decision to make.

My daughter is a vet. She says to think of the 3 things your dog loves most. If he's still enjoying 2 of them it's not time to let go. If he's down to 1 it's time to consider if that one thing gives him a decent quality of life. If he's not enjoying any of those things it is definitely time to say goodbye. Obviously if the dog is in pain then let go soon; the pain will only get worse.

I think trying to have a truly wonderful day with over the top treats is good. My daughter suggested a burger and fries but I cooked chicken and French toast for the dog, and fresh salmon and tuna for the cat. I try to give every pet their very favorite food at the end, the one they'd steal from the counter if they got a chance, even if they were normally very well behaved.

Good luck with your decision. It's the worst. And godspeed to your puppy... and healing for those of you left behind.

[wendyb-NC]

19. Sorry to hear that, it's heartbreaking.

It's hard to know when it's time, but based on the things that you notice about his tendencies and abilities as the days go by you know how the disease is affecting him. Pain and strain might help you decide that it's time, if he has to work so hard to move that he's exhausted, or whines for help. It's just so hard to lose a beloved fur baby/child.

[k55f5r]

20. sorry for your loss.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

21. It is hard to say goodbye to a family member

[chowmama]

23. I'm so sorry.

That's not enough - there are no words.

I think the above comments that you'll know are right, and it does sound like it'll be soon. But at the same time, you always wonder if you were too quick or too slow. If you're sure of one or the other, that's even worse.

It sounds like he was lucky in his life and family, and in your choice of vets. You'll support him over this last bad time, but please remember the good ones too. I'll bet there were a lot of them.

[sinkingfeeling]

25. I'm sorry, but I disagree with your vet. She could amputate the leg with the cancer.

I had a dog, an American Eskimo, whose left front leg was amputated due to cancer. He was over 10 at the time. He came out of surgery and immediately went up and down stairs. The only problem he had adjusting to having 3 legs is he'd forget and attempt to heist his leg and fall over. He lived another 5 1/2 years as a tri-paw.

[madaboutharry]

26. I had a Boston Terrier named Louie and he was the best boy in the whole world.

I loved him so much. He lived until he was 14 years old. At the end he just seemed to have lost his love of life. He had something neurological going on and the vet thought it was a brain tumor. This last few days he would just look at me as if he was trying to tell me it was time. I sat holding his paw while he was put down. I have a photo of that moment.

When you decide it is time, please stay with him. I think it is important not to let them die alone.

I really do believe they let us know.

I am always sorry to hear of someone losing a beloved pet. Sending peace and hugs.

[samnsara]

28. ive gone thru this so many times.. Im so sorry :(

...I've had big dogs all my life and I've had to be the one to send them to the Bridge...hubby becomes inconsolable.

Before you do anything find the number of a vet who will do in home euthanasia Maybe call the service in advance and ask how long it would take for them to respond to your call once you make it.

With my dogs the time came when they COULD NOT get up to even pee. This is when they crash. and theres no way back from it. They are ready to give up. This is when they will usually urinate in the dog bed.

When they just needed assistance I had a Help Me Up harness that has a front and rear handle. I actually hurt my back pretty bad getting them up and down even with the harness. If your dog is going up and down the stairs he is still in fairly good shape. I slept for months on the downstairs sofa as my dog could not go up the stairs where they always slept in our bedroom.

Look for signs of obvious pain..heavy panting, eyes closed, licking at the area. Did the vet give you anything to keep him comfortable? We used Etodolac for pain control for our dogs severe arthritis. Its a human medicine with no liver complications..ask your vet about it?

Seizures could be another sign the end could be close. Both my Goldens had small seizures towards the end and that, coupled with not able to use their legs, was very stressful for them AND for us. I kept rolled up wash cloth handy.

They will refuse all food...even little hamburger balls we made for my golden, Cooper... he ate ONLY that then he quit eating.
When my other Golden, Emma quit eating.. I got a bag of ginger snaps to help with her tender tummy. Each night she and I would have two ginger snaps.

Enjoy this time with your dog..take about 1000 photos of all parts of him..his nose..feet, tail, ears. Spend hours petting him ,grooming talking, playing music. This is scary for them too and he will just want to be with you til his time comes.

I always took a photo of each of my dogs right after they passed...then we had them privately cremated and we have their ashes in urns. DH and I are going to be buried with their ashes.

Im so very sorry for your dogs illness. These things never get any easier no matter how old we are or how many times we go thru it. I am just more prepared now and have an idea what to look for The vet gave my last golden 4 months and she lasted 6. Relatively alert and enjoying some life until the day before she left for the bridge.

My grand dog is now hospice and since Ive had him for the last 6 years so I will be assisting him soon. Hes a rat terrier so he is easier for me to lift him up if needed. The vet feels there is cancer in his liver spleen and maybe lungs so we are enjoying him as much as we can and he still barks at stuff so hes not ready to go yet...but i have the number of the vet ready.

We will be here for you if you need to talk....
take care and hugs to your fur baby

[niyad]

30. Holding you all in love and light in this very sad time. Please see if your vet

will come to your house, or can recommend a mobile vet. It is so much less stress fir everyone that way.

Please know that your DU family is here for you. Lean as hard as you need.

[pat_k]

31. It's not easy, but I'm confident you will know.

When we take a companion animal into our lives, we take on a host of responsibilities. Making end-of-life decisions is perhaps the most difficult, but we owe it to them to do our best to ensure a peaceful end; to spare them the pain, fear, or confusion they may otherwise experience if we "let nature take its course."

Response to everyday pleasures, degree of mobility, degree of pain, effectiveness of pain management, degree of confusion are all factors, as is the question of whether there is a meaningful chance of improvement or recovery. For myself, when the condition is terminal, I tend to end things sooner than I might if there had been a meaningful chance of improvement or recovery.

Ultimately, you know your pup best. Make an assessment of his quality of life. If the condition is terminal, you need to consider whether you’re putting off your goodbyes for his sake, or for your sake. I think we know our babies well enough to know if they are telling us they are done. And if it is unclear, one thing I take as a strong indicator that "I'm done" is if the dog won't eat on their own. Sometimes they are determined to stay with us because they see how much we want them to stay. Sometimes the “right” decision just isn’t clear. All we can do is do our best.

I don't know if it will help, but I describe a few end-of-life situations I've been through. There's more detail below, in case specifics help, but the short story is that in one case limited mobility and lethargy together weren't "enough." It was not until she stopped eating that we decided it was time. In another, mobility and appetite were still good, but the condition was terminal and causing cognitive problems. She was no longer herself. For me, that, coupled with zero chance of recovery meant it was time to give her a peaceful end. In a third case, chances of recovery were unclear, so we took it day-to-day until the decision was taken out of our hands.

---------------------------
Our dog K.D. (Kangaroo Dog) was diagnosed with a tumor in her spleen. We opted to have the spleen removed because there was no indication in imaging that the cancer had spread beyond the spleen. If it had not spread, there was every chance of a full recovery. During the surgery they discovered it had spread to her liver. I never regretted putting our baby through the surgery though. It could have gone the other way. They are so stoic it is hard to know if they are in pain, but our vet was pretty confident that the cancer in the liver was not at a stage that would be painful. K.D. would simply get progressively weaker. She recovered from the surgery well, but as predicted, a month later she became progressively more lethargic and weak. She could get up and get around on her own, but did better with the help of a "sling." She was very responsive to us and enjoyed cuddles and pets. Then her interest in food diminished. We shifted to things she really loved. When she lost interest in eating the green tripe that she had previously found irresistible, we decided it was time. She still clearly loved being near us, and still had limited mobility, but we decided that in her refusal to eat on her own she was telling us she was done. We all snuggled together that night and cried. She was comfortable, but so, so weak. We said goodbye the following day.

After my husband died, our other dog, d.d. (dinky dog) started having seizures. At her age, the likely cause was a meningioma. Anti-seizure medication helped control the seizures. She was in good shape for almost a year. Then one night I woke up and she wasn't in bed. Instead, she was up circling. She was so confused and wobbly. I thought it was time, but the vet said we should try prednisone. If it was a meningioma, prednisone can work wonders. And it did. She was good for many months. When she started showing the same cognitive signs, there was no more to be done. She was still mobile, and still eating, but so confused. I decided it was time.

And then there was Mitzi. An elderly dog we "inherited" when my husband's grandmother died. She did pretty well until she was stricken with pancreatitis and hospitalized. The first day we visited she seemed to be improving. The next, not so much. The third day, she seemed worse, but was still clearly happy to see us and get cuddles. We left with a bit of hope for a recovery. The fourth day, she was even worse. She barely reacted to us. That night we talked and cried. We thought she was telling us she had had enough but we decided we wouldn't make a final decision until we saw how she was the next day. In the middle of the night we got a call from the vet. She had died and spared us having to make the decision for her. Perhaps we could have/should have spared her that final day, but we just weren’t sure. We did our best and needed to be OK with that.

[HeartsCanHope]

32. I am so sorry for all you, your family and your sweet dog are going through. You all will be in my thoughts.

https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/quality-of-life-scale/
Dr. Villalobos, DVM, came up with a quality of life scale to help in making this heartwrenching decision for pets. My vet used this with us for our cats Osie and Seb. I would talk with your vet about her opinion in using Dr. Villalobos's quality of life scale for your pet. Your vet obviously cares about your dog, and is compassionate and honest. Hugs to you, my friend. Please give your sweet Pyrenees loves from me.