"Police: 1 dead after Palos homeowner shoots intruders" (Chicago Suburb)

[DonP]

"One man is dead and another injured after being shot by a Palos Township homeowner when they attempted to enter the home Tuesday night, police said.

"The victim of an attempted home invasion, who had a valid conceal carry license, shot two male intruders fatally killing one and wounding the other," Janet De La Torre, a Cook County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman, said in a statement.

The incident occurred about 11 p.m. in the area of Will-Cook Road and 118th Street in Palos Township. The neighborhood is largely wooded with upscale brick and stone homes.

Four people are in custody, De La Torre said, none of whom are the homeowner. No charges have been filed, she said."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/news/ct-sta-homeowner-shoots-intruder-st-0707-20160706-story.html

Another of those events that "never happens" and you're paranoid if you think it does.

The Concealed Carry permit is really irrelevant to this event, since he was in his home. But it indicates the homeowner has had at least 16 hours of training, qualified at the range and obviously practices with his chosen weapon. The surviving criminal gave up the other that were 2 waiting outside and took off when they shooting started.

[SCantiGOP]

1. Yay! Proves the NRA is right

And balances out the thousands who are massacred every year by guns, or kill/get killed every year by guns in the house.

[DonP]

3. Can't discern the difference between criminals and lawful self defense huh?

Must be a real challenge to tell the difference between a person with their family in their home, minding their own business and the drug gangs responsible for over 95% of the murders here.

Hmmm, that may be why nobody pays attention to calls for more gun control?

Keep up the good work with that piercing insight.

[rock]

5. While there are others

That just don't get the point and rapidly start discussing something else. Eh?

[SCantiGOP]

6. Really?

You didn't grasp that I was pointing out that every time some whacko kills dozens of people with a weapon that shouldn't be in the hands of a civilian, the gun lovers trot out these rare, random cases of someone using a gun for self-defense?

I actually own a handgun, and do not know anyone that advocates taking away the right to own a handgun or hunting rifle.

Final point: I assume you know the fact that an accidental death is much more likely to result from a gun being in the household than for that gun to be used for self-defense.

Keep cranking out the NRA talking points and "sarcasm" symbols, I have no interest in debating this point, especially since somewhere around 80% of the American public agrees with my position. Good bye.

[sarisataka]

9. Why do you own a handgun,

Knowing the risk it poses?

[SCantiGOP]

12. No kids in the house

Unloaded and locked up.

[sarisataka]

13. I was more asking

The purpose of owning your handgun. Is it for self-defense, you enjoy recreational shooting, it's family heirloom, 'it's always been there and I've never thought to get rid of it'...

[DonP]

10. "I assume you know the fact that an accidental death is much more likely" LOL!

Only if you are still clinging to the 30 year old Kellerman study that has been debunked at least 4 times by his peers.

Which number should we use, the original 43 times more likely, the 1st revision to 12 times more likely, or the last one where it was 6 time more likely? Gun control can't even keep its lies, excuse me, I mean research straight.

Hell, even Kellerman admitted many of his conclusions were inaccurate.

"Run away, run away, and call them NRA talking points", somebody showed up with facts.

Feh, no wonder gun control is such a loser. Thanks for all you work.

[Eleanors38]

15. "Rare?" So the CDC is wrong?

[Marengo]

16. Weren't you the one claiming the founders intended people to possess only hunting rifles?

[tortoise1956]

20. Link to article on CDC study

where it states that there are at least as many DGU's as violent crimes...

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

I threw this in here so that you could see for yourself what the CDC found in its review of other studies.

[Eleanors38]

14. Actually confirms what the CDC has been saying: Many thousands of SDs a year.

You know, THAT CDC.

[ileus]

18. What about the "If it saves just one life" claim?

As for me and my family we'll choose self defense.

[TeddyR]

2. There are tens of thousands of defensive gun uses every year

And yet the controllers claims they never happen. Here are a few others recent similar stories:

http://www.daily-times.com/story/news/crime/2016/07/02/gun-wielding-homeowner-stops-armed-burglary/86567780/

http://www.myhighplains.com/news/homeowner-holds-theft-suspect-at-gunpoint-till-police-arrive

http://www.wpxi.com/news/homeowner-shoots-man-after-apparent-home-invasion/386794678

http://m.monroenews.com/news/20160706/huron-homeowner-holds-burglar-at-gunpoint

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/deputies-homeowner-shoots-kills-intruder/383516706

http://www.ktnv.com/news/man-shoots-bedroom-intruder-on-tuesday-morning

http://m.yourhoustonnews.com/deer_park/news/six-la-porte-teens-charged-in-home-invasion-armed-robbery/article_ad018fee-b97e-517b-b562-21599a57bf59.html?mode=jqm

[SCantiGOP]

4. Tens of thousands?

Exaggerate much?

[DonP]

8. Well, the CDC said from 500,000 to 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year

You know, the CDC that isn't supposed to do any research on firearms?

The same one that completed a study in 2013 at the direction of the White House. That CDC?

They found that defensive uses outnumber crimes by at least 20 to 1.

But why actually bother to look anything up when you have your Bloomberg financed bumper stickers to rely on for your POV.

[SCantiGOP]

22. Here is my final response

Last night I trashed this forum and put several of the posters here on Ignore because the discussion was not rooted in reality. In a discussion thread in the normal part of DU there was a question of why there is even a RKBA forum in DU. I will re-post this as my final acknowledgment of this forum since I won't be seeing any of its activities from now on:
_______________________________________________________________________________

I have wondered the same thing. They are so out of step with the rest of our group here, and out of step with the Democratic Party, I don't understand how they get a forum here.
They post talking points from the NRA, like having an armed citizenry is the best way to stop the 'bad guys' with guns. Five minutes before CNN broke in with news of the ambush of the police officers last night they were showing the police presence in the area. If hundreds of armed, trained police couldn't prevent this, how can a couple of citizens carrying guns be effective?
I trashed the RKBA forum and most of the people I was in a discussion with there because they kept throwing out ridiculous stats, one of which that there are up to 1,500,000 cases of year of "defensive gun uses," and then they will post 2-3 stories where that has happened.
My state of SC is about average size for the 50 states in population, so that works out to more than 80 cases a day in South Carolina! Their answer to this absurd disconnect from logic is that the press doesn't publicize these stories - I guess because SC is such an anti-gun, liberal state? What utter crap.

I'm sure some of them are sincere (they just think the 2nd Amendment is the only one that is really important and "threatened) but I also am convinced some of them are paid or dedicated volunteers for the NRA.

[gejohnston]

25. it isn't an "NRA talking point"

the number is based several peer reviewed criminology studies. The fact that you don't like the number or it doesn't fit your favorite narrative doesn't make it untrue or ridiculous. It is accepted mainstream criminology. The best known study on it won the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology.
https://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X

CNN broke in with news of the ambush of the police officers last night they were showing the police presence in the area. If hundreds of armed, trained police couldn't prevent this, how can a couple of citizens carrying guns be effective

Prevent is different than mitigate. Also, cops are really that highly trained. What it does show is that someone with a rifle shooting from an elevated position has a greater advantage over someone with only handguns on the ground and has nothing to do other situations.

[TeddyR]

27. The official platform of the Democratic Party

And the position of President Obama and candidate Hillary is that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms, which is really the point of this group, although that right is subject to restrictions like any other. I couldn't find any recent stats but it seems like something between 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 of Dems own firearms - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/. So this group is in line with the opinion of tens of millions of Democrats. So not sure why you think this group is "out of step" with the Democratic Party.

[SCantiGOP]

29. Correct, but...

When a supposed Democrat on a Democratic site revels in pointing out that a man who has just been executed by a policeman was a felon, as if that excused the act, I question whether that person is a Democrat or an NRA troll. You won't have to look far to find that in the RKBA forum.
Also in RKBA there are posts where ridiculous statements are thrown out, one in particular was that there are as many as 1.5 MILLION cases per year of someone using a fun for defensive purposes to thwart an attack. That worked out to 80 incidents per day in my state (SC). Since the rare occasions this does happen are blaring front page news, how dishonest is the gun advocate(s) who promotes this kind of delusion, and uses it as a counter-balancing 'excuse' for the fact that innocent people are being slaughtered because of our gun culture.
The Democratic position does not support assault rifles, high volume magazines, armor piercing bullets, etc., which are all sacred to the NRA and have many supporters in RKBA.

[TeddyR]

11. As others have pointed out

Yes, the instances of defensive gun use are at a minimum in the tens of thousands. Do you have some facts that dispute that point?

[beevul]

17. Even the anti-gun VPC acknowledges those numbers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172191826

[Straw Man]

19. Exaggeration?

Tens of thousands?

Exaggerate much?

From the VPC's own analysis of the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ National Crime Victimization Survey:

As detailed in the chart on the next page, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the NCVS estimates that there were 29,618,300 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same five-year period, only 235,700 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm.

--http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

235,700 over a five-year period is an average of 47,140 per year. Sounds like tens of thousands to me.

[Duckhunter935]

21. Are you going to admit you were wrong

And apologize? That would be the polite thing to do.

[SCantiGOP]

23. Please see my apology, post #22 above

[Duckhunter935]

24. Nice double down insult

I am indeed impressed.there is another gun related group you might enjoy, but it is not very busy.

[needledriver]

7. The lowball estimate is 50,000

Defensive Gun Uses per year.

Nobody needs to get shot for a defensive gun use to be effective, yet that still means that up to 50,000 lives a year are SAVED by people who were able to exercise the choice whether to arm themselves.

People who would prevent you from even having the choice to arm yourself cite the 15,000 or so who are murdered by firearms every year as a reason, yet ignore the 50,000 people whose live are saved. That's over a three to one ratio of lived saved to lives lost!

[enid602]

26. intruders

The ones that got away will probably return to pick off the homeowner when he goes out in the morning to pick up his newspaper.

[Travis_0004]

28. I doubt it

People generally want easy targets and will go find somebody else to rob. If the homeowner did end up getting shot later on, those people would be the first ones the cops look into.

[DonP]

30. All 4 survivors have been arrested, 3 women and the wounded guy.

Being held on $1 million bail each with charges of Felony Murder for all of them.

They're going nowhere.