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[pablo_marmol]

This message was self-deleted by its author (pablo_marmol) on Sat Jan 14, 2017, 04:35 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[HassleCat]

1. Actually, everyone should have an M-16.

Every citizen who is able should serve in the military, be issued a rifle, ammunition, uniform, etc. to be kept at home. Alternatives would be available, of course, for those who object to violence and killing. But a good majority of citizens would be given fully automatic rifles and a supply of ammunition. Well regulated militia, just as the Second Amendment specifies.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

3. "Well regulated" and "everyone" seems like a contradiction to me. n/t

[HassleCat]

6. Good point.

I would exclude quite a few people if they put me in charge. No person convicted of a violent crime, for example, would be accepted for national service, and no person who had not completed national service could have a firearm of any kind.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. Or how about requiring people with such weapons to be part of actual...

private militias sworn to protect the country, and who regularly perform training exercises together with oversight/regulation by the government... not the secretive or individualistic stuff that seems to ignore the "well regulated" part of the Constitution?

People in charge of such militias might realize that ol' Zeke in their group is acting kind of kooky before he kills a bunch of innocent people too.

It's probably too late now, though. Those weapons are distributed throughout the country. Oh, well!

[HassleCat]

12. Yep. That would be the idea.

As you say, it's too late to go back and do it right.

[gejohnston]

8. Well Regulated meant well functioning

Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2017, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)

that is the context that it was written.

[pablo_marmol]

4. Based on the information provided, it's impossible to say for certain.......

.......but it's entirely possible that a neighbor without military experience could have accomplished this feat with an AR -- with or without a scope.

The very first time I shot an AR, (Aimpoint red dot optic) I managed to hit a circle with a 3 inch diameter standing at 50 yards consistently. And I'm not bragging. It's the technology.

[doc03]

11. The guy didn't use an AR-15 or M-16 military assault weapon with a 30 round

magazine. The M24 sniper rifle is a modified version of the common Remington Model 700 hunting rifle that holds five rounds.
The Remington Model 700 is a popular hunting rifle that is readily available and nobody has wanted to outlaw.

[pablo_marmol]

18. I know exactly what the guy used.

What I was pointing out was that it was possible than an AR could have been up to the task. Confronting the irrational gun restriction "argument" that nothing good could ever come from owning one.

[bhowle]

2. Gun up my liberal friends!

[pablo_marmol]

5. Yup. "Gun up" indeed!

'Cause it aint the number of guns. It's who has them.

[doc03]

7. He could have done the same with a typical Remington Model 700 bolt action

hunting rifle. I just looked up the M 24 sniper rifle and it is based on the Model 700 Remington bolt action
rifle that holds five rounds. So he didn't use an AR-15 military style assault weapon with a 30 round or whatever
magazine, he used a modified deer hunting rifle that nobody wants to ban. That is the rest of the story.

[gejohnston]

10. Actually, there are those who do

the BSC culture warriors will be "high powered sniper rifles" after ARs go. There are extremists at both ends, saying "nobody" is not quite accurate.
One could argue that something like a scout rifle would be just as if not more effective, given the increased range and power of, say, .308

[doc03]

13. I knew if I said (nobody) somebody would come up with a straw-man argument

to distract from the OP. You could find someone that would outlaw pen knives I suppose.
The OP implies that the guy saved these people with a M-16 and it turns out Bubba could
have done it with his .308 deer rifle, if he was a good shot and very lucky.

[gejohnston]

16. Everyone seems to be distracted from the OP

but it isn't a strawman
https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them

BTW, "Bubba" is a classist slur, one that gave the Rust Belt to Trump.

[pablo_marmol]

19. "BTW, "Bubba" is a classist slur, one that gave the Rust Belt to Trump." BRAVO!

There are those who will never admit to the felony-nasty culture war we are IN FACT guilty of, and it's horrible consequences.

[1965Comet]

23. God, come on with that s***

"Bubba" is a fine way to denote Trump voting fools. Stop whining that it is "classist"...

[gejohnston]

26. Many of whom voted for Obama twice

People are not going to vote for people who are bigoted towards them or take them for granted. The number of people who are loyal to a party or politician is getting smaller each cycle, and they won't vote for condescending ;;;;;;;;;;;

[1965Comet]

29. Good thing I' m not running for office then!

'cause Bubba would hate me...

[branford]

32. "Bubba" is a fine way to ensure Trump gets a second term

by further alienating poor, often union, working class voters outside of blue coastal enclaves that until recently were a loyal Democratic constituency.

It's really sad to see purported liberals excusing blatant bigotry using the excuse of cultural and regional elitism.

If such attitudes continue to proliferate in our Party, we deserve to lose elections.

[1965Comet]

34. Riiiiiiight

Just what I need to do, cozy up to some idiots who thought it would be a wonderful idea to elect an orange Pigman as President! I would rather hang out with a group of college Republicans, at least they are educated.

[doc03]

27. Every time someone comes up with a logical argument about your guns

you all come out and gang up on them. For your information I have owned, hunted and shot guns all my life maybe more than you.
I was in the Army and qualified Expert with both the M14 and M16 back in the day. I happen to live in Ohio and some may consider me Bubba, I am looking out my window at a herd of beef cattle across the road. I know lots of gun owners and like with anything else there are those that are responsible gun owners and then there are the ones that shouldn't carry a butter knife. The op claims to be an example of why everyone needs a AR-15. The guy had an AR-15 available but he used what is basically a hunting rifle instead. Yes he could have used the AR-15 but he used what he knew was the best weapon. Now if there were 15 intruders in the neighbors house which would be kind of unlikely an AR-15 may have been a better choice. Yea an AR-15 can shoot 1 round but from my experience shooting you give a guy a semi-auto with a 30 round magazine he empties the 30 round magazine in a few seconds. I went hunting with a guy several years ago that had a semi-auto 30 06 rifle. I am standing watching for deer and all of a sudden someone starts shooting
and I see a deer coming over the hill and I still hear shooting. For fear of getting shot myself I dove behind a log. A minute later here comes this yahoo and says did you see that deer, I said yea I was behind that log at the time. The simple MF shot 17 rounds at that deer. Needless to say I never went in the woods again with that Bubba. I live here in the rust belt and let me tell you for the most part
the people that voted for Trump are racist assholes. I will no longer participate in your ridiculous straw-man argument good bye.

[gejohnston]

31. You didn't have a logical argument

because it was speculation and logical fallacies.

We don't know if he had an AR, nor do we know if he would switch rifles if the AR was the most accessible.
Your anecdotes are not logical arguments, but you might want to find better hunting buddies.

Also, since someone made the argument, it is no longer a strawman.

[Straw Man]

35. Could you please enlighten us ...

I went hunting with a guy several years ago that had a semi-auto 30 06 rifle. I am standing watching for deer and all of a sudden someone starts shooting
and I see a deer coming over the hill and I still hear shooting. For fear of getting shot myself I dove behind a log. A minute later here comes this yahoo and says did you see that deer, I said yea I was behind that log at the time. The simple MF shot 17 rounds at that deer.

... as to which semi-auto .30-06 he had that was capable of holding 17 or more rounds?

[doc03]

14. Also if the average guy would have used his AR-15 a good chance the

innocent victims would have been killed too. Really they were just extremely lucky a trained sniper happened to be next door
rather than just the average shooter.

[gejohnston]

15. define the "average guy"

I seriously doubt it. Statistically, the cops are more likely because they don't take the time to go to the range as often. Your post is pure speculation, perhaps based on your lack of skill. Also, what innocents. Given the OP, a scoped bolt action would have been the ideal rifle for this use. Since that is what was used, ask the OP why he chose those words.
Depending on the distance, the average farmer in Idaho could have done the same thing. The average "Bubba" is often more intelligent and skilled with various items, such as firearms than the faux liberals and hipsters who look down their noses at them.

[Straw Man]

17. You are aware, of course ...

Also if the average guy would have used his AR-15 a good chance the

innocent victims would have been killed too.

... that it's possible to fire a single shot from an AR-15, even with a 30-round magazine in place. And that it's possible to mount an optic on an AR-15. And that the .223 round would be less likely to overpenetrate and strike something other than the attended target than the larger centerfire rounds fired by the Remington 700.

Or aren't you?

[pablo_marmol]

21. Thank you. I'm frequently guilty of expecting people to read my mind.......

........or to be aware of issues relating to over-penetration etc. You expressed what I should have stated in a previous post.

[pablo_marmol]

20. Don't know how you come up with this, given the accuracy of the rifle.

Like I said in an earlier post, the first time I shot an AR I did very well ---- and credited the technology, not me.

........innocent victims would have been killed too.

There's not enough information given to be able to LUNGE to a conclusion like this. With this sentence, you not only expose your bias and lack of knowledge about firearms, but turn to a worn-out, dishonorable cliche about 'killing innocents'. A perennial favorite of the gun restriction crowd.

Edited to add: The story makes no mention regarding the distance of the shot.

[ileus]

25. The average shooter in my area can shoot MOA groups

out to 200, 300, even 400 yards.

[1965Comet]

22. This guy used a Remington 700

with a 5 round magazine. I am sure many gun control folks would be thrilled to limit gun ownership to such rifles! They seem effective enough to me, no need to have AR-15s owned by civilians...

[doc03]

28. Amen brother nt

[ileus]

24. Mine are pretty useful for other purposes.

But then again I only own one of three types of firearms.

Life Saving
Hunting
Pleasure (target, competition, general family fun plinksters)

[samir.g]

30. This entire story is bullshit

http://www.snopes.com/army-sniper-shoot-intruders/

There was no good guy with a gun.

[doc03]

33. Good find I kind of thought it was a fishy story. A sniper just happens to be cleaning his

guns at 1am and just happens to see this going on in a neighbors house. First of all why would you be aiming
a scoped snipers rifle at your neighbors window? Then the op tries to use this as a reason everyone needs a M16
when in reality it made the opposite point. The guy used a glorified Remington 700 bolt action 5 shot hunting rifle.

[pablo_marmol]

36. Given that this is a false story I will delete. NT