Why have we raised a generation (or more) of women who speak like crap?

[El Supremo]

They talk with not just the Valspeak words "like, awesome, etc." but have the high rising terminal at the ends of sentences and (my most hated speech pattern) vocal fry, that guttural sound in some words.

Sometimes I meet a nice looking woman and am immediately turned off when she opens her mouth.

[hlthe2b]

1. what is a vocal fry?

[El Supremo]

2. Look >>

[hlthe2b]

4. Yes.. that is within an entire group of "vocal affectations" that has me hating most pop music...

It is one thing to throw a few in when you've got an incredible voice and the "chops" to go with it (like the late Whitney Houston)...
But all these mediocre American Idol types that throw this kind of crap in--in the hopes no one will notice how really lacking their voice really is-- are just ridiculous and irritating.

And, yes, I have noticed this phenomenon, but as she says, it is a learned phenomenon associated with group cliques. I think it is emblematic of the problem we have fostering young women to feel confident in being themselves--against some pretty horrendous societal pressures centered on the superficial.

But, yes, it is irritating.

[OKNancy]

5. thanks for this video

I bet not just Boomers hate it though.

[CurtEastPoint]

3. Creaky voice!! hate it. Google it.

Croaking like a frog

[hlthe2b]

6. Speaking of irritating voices with vocal affectations, have you heard Eleanor Beardsley (NPR)

She is one of their lead international correspondents and my Gawd, her voice just drives me insane--especially how she ends her pieces and the way she says her own name.

Here's an audio sample:
http://www.npr.org/2012/03/07/148170092/sarkozy-defends-his-record-in-tv-interview

[El Supremo]

13. No. But Ann Taylor drops all her "L"s and drives me nuts. n/m

[MADem]

19. She oughta hook up with Tom Brokaw--he strangles his!

Picture Brokaw saying "Lisa liked licking lots of little lollipops leisurely alone." He'd choke!

[codjh9]

28. Yes - she actually sounds like a woman who was on the Daily Show a few years ago

... and may still be on there, since I haven't kept up with the show. Every time I hear her (Beardsley), I think of the 'fake news reporter) from the Daily Show! :^)

[shanti]

7. vocal fry

it makes me cringe, like nails on a chalkboard. 90% of the time, the person speaking is under 40, so it must be a generational thing.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. Like they turn every sentence into a question with that rising terminal. Like, you know?

[whathehell]

21. I hate that. It sounds like they're unable to make a statement and must turn it into a question.

I think boys use it as well, though.

[GinGin]

26. yes

AGREED!
Lets not all forget men have very off-putting accents too.End OFF!

[DeeDeeNY]

9. The constant use of the word "like" is another one

"I was like yes I did but she was like no you didn't". Is it too much trouble to think of an appropriate word to mean you said something?

[union_maid]

32. My son is driven crazy by "like"

I guess guys do it, too. But he's thinking of young women he dates. Says it makes them sound stupid even when they're very bright. He has a very hard time getting past it, too.

[Waiting For Everyman]

10. Can I add to that the nearly-closed-fast-fluttering eyelids while talking to others affectation?

Fortunately that one isn't done by nearly so many people. But yes, the croaking voices have been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I never knew there was a term for it though.

[pipi_k]

11. Hahahah...got distracted for a bit...

as I was listening to examples of those things I found other You Tube videos where people gave demonstrations of various English accents...


Anyway, I don't really have too much of a problem with the HRT. Unless it's really pronounced. I know that Native Americans, Canadians, and Mexican Americans have a bit of uprise at the end of their sentences, and I find it sort of appealing.


What I loathe is the high, cartoon character voice combined with rapid speech. For me, it's like nails on chalkboard. I like deeper voices and slower speech.

AND

something I call the Natasha Curry effect.

Which is an intonation in the voice that makes it sound like the person talking is reading a storybook to a group of 4 year old kids.

Always feel like slapping her.

[El Supremo]

12. That Mexican sing song intonation seems...

to be common only to northern Mexicans. It's not quite the same as high rising terminal.

[SheilaT]

14. A couple of comments.

The rising inflection has been around a long time now, decades. The "vocal fry" has also been around longer than people realize, mainly in girl singers. Think Janis Joplin.

Also, language changes. And the older generation always complains about the younger generation. Always.

But back to the language thing. Watch movies made in the 1930's, and you will hear accents that just don't exist any more. Part of it is that there were conventions of pronunciation and intonation that existed for acting and public speaking that simply don't exist now, and part of it is that accents themselves change over time. I also understand, that from my reading of stuff about language and linguistics, that language changes much more quickly in non-literate or pre-literate societies than in literate ones. It's also possible that the ubiquitisness of sound recordings have somewhat slowed down changes, but not totally.

I personally get far more worked up over various grammatical and usage errors, such as lie/lay confusion, confusion of personal pronouns ("Me and Walter went downtown" or "They served my wife and I a delicious meal&quot .

[El Supremo]

15. But young women's speaking voice has changed far more than young men's.

And yes these have been around for awhile. That's why I said "generation(s)".

As far as grammar, I can't get used to the elimination of adverbs. Such as "exact same" instead of "exactly the same".

[snagglepuss]

17. Interesting post. I hate the how girls sound today however you are right

about language changing from one generation to another. Awhile ago I was listening to a recording of a Canadian TV talk show from the 60s, the women talking sounded so affected and pompous. That said I wonder if the constant is that from one generation to the next there are always a group of people who cultivate an affected tone to sound sophisticated.

[SheilaT]

18. My guess is that it's the particular subset

of people who were on that show. Go back and watch movies from the 1930's and you'll here speech mannerisms that have totally
disappeared, a certain accent and cadence that came out of the theater when there were no microphones, and everything said on stage had to be heard clearly in every part of the auditorium.

[mushroomme]

16. Like, I mean, You know, man,

Every generation has its language peculiar to their youthful years. What really annoys me is adults emulating their kids. When I hear an adult mimicking the latest catch phrase, such as "That's awesome", I turn on my internal mute button. I once e-mailed Hillary Clinton's campaign and begged smeone to tell her to quit starting every sentence with, "I mean". No, I don't know what you mean because you haven't said anything yet that needs clarification. You know? You know, what I meant to say, I mean...I have engaged my mute button at this point. When I was out in corporate America, I refused to be sucked into the neverending barrage of psychobabble. Embrace the moment, the concept, the weather. Doesn't matter. Just throw your arms around it. Are we on the same page?

Just reading a newspaper anymore is enough to drive anyone who has a grasp of grammar, looney tunes. Does anyone anymore know how to use the words effect and affect. I don't believe any media today has spell check and grammar check on their computers, or perhaps they haven't yet embraced the use of this tool.

I don't believe we have raised a generation of women or men who speak like crap. We're just getting old and forget the crap we spouted, which drove our parents nuts. But I must say we were much better at spelling and grammarcool, with-it than the newer generation. Now that's just plain groovy, said the woman with the husky, raspy, coughing voice of the cool, with-it chain smoker.

[Rhiannon12866]

22. Well said.

Effect and affect drive me nuts, too, as well as the more commonly misplaced apostrophes. I used to be a proofreader, so misspellings jump out at me, nice to know I'm not alone. Folks here are uncommonly good at the written word and we do have spell check, LOL, but reading comments from other sites? Yikes!

Welcome to DU, mushroomme! It's great to have you with us!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. I can't stand the Sarah Palin nasal screech. Lots of jaw tension.

Juiianne Moore got rid of the screech in "Game Change" so I was able to watch that without throwing bricks at the TV.

And I'm not even talking about her grammatical nonsense.

[mysuzuki2]

23. Speech patterns are constantly changing. I'm sure people of 100 years ago

would be appalled at what is considered standard english today. I am an old guy but I actually spend a lot of time arould college age women (lucky me hey?). By and large, despite curmudginly annoyances like the rise inflection at the end, they are mostly quite articulate and bright.

[nickolas007]

24. we need it

off course we raised a generation

[El Supremo]

25. Here is a perfect example. It's an anti-Obama ad, naturally.

&list=UU-JY5LuDM2wzN8cd5ubvRsg&index=2&feature=plcp

[codjh9]

29. And besides your point (vocal fry or whatever)...

... I also almost laugh at the 'I don't feel like he's fighting for me' comment. I think most Repubs think only about taxes (which is b.s. too - that Dems always raise taxes - but that's another issue), their own wallet, 'Whut's he gonna do fer ME?' when they vote. Sure, I hope the Prez helps me in some way or another, but it's not ME, or my wallet, that drives my vote at all. Ever. It's the environment, social justice, fair pay, worker's rights, on and on.

[codjh9]

27. Oh My God yes!!!

Hey El Supremo - where are you from, with the UT Longhorns logo? I'm from San Marcos originally.

Anyway, Oh My God yes, I've never heard of 'vocal fry', but I had to click OFF on that little video you posted after about 10 seconds, because yes, yes, I hate that, as well as the ending-a-sentence-with-a-rising-tone-that-makes-it-sound-like-a-question? When it's not? You know? And yeah, besides 'like' and 'awesome' continuing to be overused, it wasn't but a few years ago when (seemingly) every reply to any remark or question didn't begin with 'So'.

And one more comment on 'awesome', I heard a guy (a professor, perhaps?) on NPR the other day lamenting the overuse of awesome and ... I forget, some other superlative that is used to much it's lost its original meaning, practically. Louis CK has a hilarious routine where he talks about the overuse of superlatives. He says 'Yeah, like you can take 2 dudes at a fast-food joint, and one will get to the table and say "I got us an extra water cup in case..." (whatever), and the other one will say "Dude, you're a GENIUS". THAT's being a genius? What are you going to say when you really encounter a genius?'.

[El Supremo]

30. Where am I from? I'm from The Great Plains.

I went to UT, UTA and graduated from UTD. I have lived in Colorado for 32 years now.

Women sure didn't talk like this when I was younger. I blame it on California.

[no_hypocrisy]

31. When I was coming up, the most frequent transgression

was constant punctuating a sentence every third word with "um".

[MADem]

35. I find "like" (and like's friend "you know") to be off-putting.

It's like, you know, annoying...!

This combo has been popular for many decades, now.

[PoliticalPizza]

33. The male equivalent...

Every other word is, "Dude..." Today's version of "Man" -- annoyingly lame.

[MADem]

34. Why are you blaming just women for this irritating linguistic habit? Young men do it too, and they

like to refer to one another as brassieres for some odd reason, as well, in addition to referring to female persons as "dudes." They also like to sport the "flat affect" that sounds like they've been heavily medicated with thorazine.

I just don't understand why a lad would want to refer to a friend or acquaintance as a "bra." I suppose if someone offers one a bit of support, it's appropriate, in its way, but to my ear it just sounds dumb.

It's irritating, but there's nothing to be done. Language is one way that children create their separate identity from their parents and elders--it sounds noxious, but probably no more noxious than many of us sounded to our elders, once upon a time.

[El Supremo]

36. New video from CBS Sunday Morning:

[bwall49]

37. Is this topic worthy?

Here we are Boomers talking about a worthless topic...

[OKNancy]

38. Every post isn't meant for a Pulitzer Prize

I agree it's pretty much a fluff thread, but so what?

I did want to ask about your profile. Aren't Constitutionalists really just Libertarian/Republicans?

[El Supremo]

39. I just discovered a male that uses high rising terminal! They are very few, fer sure. >>

Saw him on the morning news today. Here is an old YouTube:

[skippercollector]

40. Do I have vocal fry?

I am a female whose voice is naturally higher-pitched and nasal. I've always had trouble singing the low notes of two basic songs, "Happy Birthday" and "The Star Spangled Banner." I even have trouble speaking in a deep voice. My voice cracks when I get a little below middle C. Is this vocal fry?
Or is it just the opposite: one's voice cracking trying to reach higher notes?

[olddots]

41. "The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain "

have you ever met guys from southern California who can have a whole conversation with the word
DUDE ?

[El Supremo]

42. Have you ever met gals from SoCal...

who can have a whole conversation with the word
LIKE ?

[MemphisMoocows]

43. To be fair,

"grown-ups" in the 1960s and 1970s couldn't stand listening to the young boomers talking in hippie-speak.

[glitterbag]

44. This has been a sore point with me

for years. Im not completing my thoughts on this right now, just found the subject and I'm interested but have to be out door for for an appointment. Back later.