"Those Trump voters are not racist! They voted for Obama BOTH times!"

[YoungDemCA]

Been hearing this one a lot recently, regarding those white Obama/Trump voters in the Rust Belt.

Sounds suspiciously like "Some of my best friends are black." As if voting for Obama is proof that a white person does not harbor any racist sentiment. As if Black Lives Matter - and the white backlash to it - didn't emerge between November 2012 and November 2016. As if Donald Trump didn't give unprecedented (in modern times, at least) legitimacy to white bigots of ALL kinds (racists, misogynists, homophobes, xenophobes, anti-Semites, Islamophobes...). As if it wasn't a black man who won the Democratic nomination this year, but a woman - and not just any woman, but a controversial yet undeniable modern feminist icon. And as if Democrats hadn't been bleeding white voters (especially the once-solidly Democratic working class white voters) for the past half-century - a phenomenon that began in the South, but has been spreading to other parts of the country in the post-civil rights, post-women's rights, and post-LGBT rights (i.e. since the 1960s).

I guess people will believe what they want to believe.

[gollygee]

1. I question how many people actually voted for both

I think people who haven't voted much in the past chose to come out and vote this time because they identified with Trump's racism to such a degree.

[wildeyed]

4. Statistically, that appears to be true.

I haven't looked much at the numbers, too sad, but it appears that the same unlikely voters who turned out in the primary turned out for the GE.

[etherealtruth]

7. I agree ...

In my corner of the world (SE MI) The AA vote was down in our most populous county (Wayne county/ city of Detroit in) .... yet voting turn out, overall, was up in Wayne County ... ?

I firmly beleive, just as Pres Obama was a motivating force for PoC to vote (in higher percentages than are usually found) .... tRump motivated the racist/bigoted vote to show up at the polls in higher numbers than are usually seen.

These are not the same voters that voted for Obama yet the media likes to claim they are. it seems similar scenarios played out across the country.

I never underestimate the power of bigotry/ hate and ignorance to motivate

[uponit7771]

22. +1, and he still got less national votes than HRC... Obama wasn't running against an overt racist

... in 08 and 12...

That's the bigger difference here, humans are tribal and it took a specifically horrible person to make people run towards there tribal tendencies.

Now the GOP has the playbook: its OK to be openly racist... the M$M will cover as long as we give them access to your staff

[still_one]

2. People who voted for trump are either racist or have racist tendencies

[sheshe2]

5. Yup

http://all-hat-no-cattle.blogspot.com/

[Grey Lemercier]

12. I have been harassed, called horrible names (thank god the worst reply was removed)

and alert stalked all over the board for saying this

Several posters keep lying and saying I am saying ALL whites are racist, when I have NEVER said that once in my entire life, let alone on this board

I am half Swedish, my father (ethnic white) and all his family are wonderful people

my wife is ethnic white Swedish, my mum is mixed (Barbados)

I only judge people on how they act, never on how they look ethnically

the removed post was so vicious and nasty it left me in tears

I so do not feel safe here and I am on verge of being banned due to multiple alerts on me

I am at wits end

[still_one]

13. Sorry what you have had to put up with Lem. First thing, if a post or posts of yours have been

alerted on and removed, you should appeal, especially if they were the results of alert stalking or a gross distortion of what you said.

As for the person who accused you in vicious terms of something you are not, you said that post got removed. If it was as bad as you have related most likely that person had a TOS violation. If it was over the top where they actually personally attacked you, not only would that be a TOS violation, but very likely they were either FFR(Flagged for Review), or PPR(Posting privileges revoked).

If you are being alert stalked, you should contact the admins

Sometimes the exchanges here do get pretty heated, but unless it involves the issues I mentioned above, or what you discussed, I would try to approach in a way that either you are gaining something through a discussion with someone, or you are not, and if it gets to the point where one is just not going to agree with someone on something, then you just have to agree to disagree, and go on. At least that is how I would approach it.

DU also gives you the ability to put people on ignore, not only for posts, but for mail.

Anyway, try to hang in there, and try not to let people upset you too much, and if they do, then engage with someone else in a discussion.

[Grey Lemercier]

14. I did appeal,but crickets, and the one who told me to fuck off and other things was FFR, as you said

I have seen far worse than what I said completely left alone, so I think it is the fact I am still sort of new here as to whyI am not getting any sympathy.

I have no idea how to alert if someone simply says untrue things.

I challenged several of them multiple times to ever find ONE instance where I did what they said, and of course, they could find none.

Now I have one them re-engaging me again, and I just am very gun shy, as the next hide I am done for.

It just sucks overall, as some people on here just go ballistic if we (PoC) say that we will NEVER accept pandering to racists whites for their vote, and that (as I truly believe) if a person voted for that racist bastard, they are a racist, as he openly campaigned as a racist.

The posters immediately go into group (white) defence mode and make outrageous statements about broad brush attacks, when I was VERY specific in all my posts.

They are hyper-defensive, and to me, it really feels like a white privileged attack designed to shut us up.

I am in mortal fear for my fellow PoC and fellow LGBTQ people in the USA. The shit storm we are going to be hit with from all levels (local, state, federal, all backed up by Republican state legislatures, statewide officers, governors, houses, and all 3 branches of the federal government, including a RW SCOTUS) is going to be breathtaking and it just enrages me to no end that so many are demanding that we reach out and kiss racist ass and beg these bastards to vote for us.

These people are the ENEMY, they voted Trump in and many many hold profoundly racist, sexist, homophobic views and I will be damned if I make nice with people who literally want to ERASE me.

[HassleCat]

3. Believing what we want to believe

You might stop to consider the evidence you offer to counter your thesis, that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. As you say, many of them voted for Obama. As you say, that is not proof they harbor no racist sentiment. Neither does it disprove the idea they voted for Trump for racial reasons. In fact, I know several people who voted for Obama, and voted for Trump this time, and expressed racial resentment. So you may be largely correct, but there is no way to know for sure. When you look at an individual white Trump voter, you cannot know for sure if that person voted with racial motivation. Unless they tell you so, and some will.

Generally, I would say race played a larger role in this election than in the previous two elections for president. That seems odd, doesn't it? But I think many white voters trusted or liked Obama enough they were willing to overlook the fact he has dark skin. This time, they transferred some pent-up racial resentment, some lingering doubts about Obama, to Clinton. I get this idea from speaking with people I know who specifically cited programs to move black welfare mothers out of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and find them free housing in small Pennsylvania towns because the welfare benefits are more generous. There was also talk about Obama falsifying citizenship for Mexicans and ensuring they voted for Democrats. There were more conspiracy theories, of course, but these were the ones I heard repeated most often. It was as if some people had been storing up their racial grievances against Obama and dumped them on Clinton.

Of course, many white people voted for Obama because they knew he had a grip on things, and would not let the train go off the rails. I'm not sure why they didn't feel the same about Clinton, but I heard about lack of confidence that she would protect Social Security. That's an odd one, considering what Republicans want to do to the SS program.

I also heard some sentiment that the playing field had been tilted too far in favor of black people, that Obama had gone beyond the limits. I think this relates to your comment about BLM. Many white people expected Obama to calm things down, to marginalize BLM, something like that.

[etherealtruth]

8. We certainly do believe what we want to believe

I believe that people that support racist/ bigoted rhetoric, deeds and policies are racist/bigots.

If I say (with my vote) i am willing to sacrifice the rights and well being of "others" (read PoC, LGBT, women, Muslims...) because I think I may get ahead .... what am I?

I may not be a person that would ever hurl a racial (ethnic, homophobic ...) pejorative ... I may not be a person that would ever commit a hate crime... I may even have Muslim friends ... and on and on .... this does not absolve me of being a racist or bigot.

if one supports racist/ bigoted policies/ candidates one really needs to confront their ideology if they want to claim they are not a racist/ bigot.

Putting a racist/ bigot in power is a lot more harmful than one individual hurling a pejorative or even committing a hate crime.

[JI7]

6. Obama held back on speaking on race because he knew how many white people felt about it

remember the shit he got just for saying blakc and hispanic men are stopped unfairly and later on the comment about if he had a son he would look like trayvon.

it's like the people who watch sports with black athletes but turn bitter hateful if any of them complains about discrimination .

[heaven05]

10. Oh I've told white people

this many times, PoC instinctively knew, and they looked at me sideways or even some agreed, yet the power to keep our first rate POTUS in check was always the race card white people played, even in his advisors and among us liberals and progressives. Yep that is their race card, every word you say..

[heaven05]

9. Yep, familiar refrain

as to suspiciously like "some of my best..........". Oh people here are even trying that fake outrage at the white people who voted for the fuhrer-in-waiting being called racist, fascist pigs. Dixiecrats and nixon-atwaters 'southern strategy' accounted for a large "bleed off" in the immediate nationwide reaction to the 64-65 Civil and Voting Rights Acts that gave minorities a generation of so-called equality. That's over. The Democrats are newly the progressive 'liberal' party. Even George Wallace was a democrat. Smile in my face, calling me ugly names behind my back for years and now those names are being openly shouted with glee, NATIONWIDE. Big trouble ahead. They will have the retaliatory power, but WE WILL have the resistance. No matter how many they will openly murder now. Passive and aggressive resistance.

[treestar]

11. Is there any proof of this idea there are people

who voted for Obama and now Dump? It's hard to believe anyone would make that transition.

I tend to believe the explanation that Dump brought out racists who previously were not enthused enough to vote even R but Dump looked good to them.

[JI7]

15. it's being exaggerated. there are always some. there are people that voted hillary but not Obama

also.

[stone space]

16. I recall a 2008 media quote from a guy standing in line to vote: "I'm voting for the N-Word"

What this told me at the time was 2 things:

(1) Dude actually had the intellectual and emotional capacity to recognize his own self interest in the context of a sudden unexpected financial meltdown.

(2) Dude's level of support for Obama was probably somewhat soft from the start, and maintaining his support likely depended on maintaining an appropriate level of fear.

Another thought that occurs to me now in 2016:

(3) Republicans are better at manipulating and maintaining fear than Democrats, so Dude probably switched to Trump this time around, as President Obama didn't do enough to maintain his fears.

(4) If the Democratic Party is to attempt to reach out to folks like this, we'll need to get a lot better at stoking peoples' fears.

(5) In 2020, Dude's vote may very will be up for grabs again, should President Trump's policies over the next 4 years succeed in instilling the requisite level of fear.

[JHan]

17. Yep, 2008 was up for grabs. things were so messed up, I think many people did think..

"might as well vote for the black dude" (n word)

[JHan]

18. the other thing you hear...

"Some black people voted for Trump too"-

yes and I know the type. If white people can vote against their self interests, what makes individuals in other groups immune to the same delusions?

It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are folks complicit in their own oppression - Exhibit A: The Mexican Trump Surrogate " Tacos round every corner" Guy.

[JI7]

19. yes. but one difference is minorities don't make excuses for them

the way it's being done with whites.

[KittyWampus]

20. You have to demonstrate that they are, in fact racist. You just make an facile assumption.

By the way, President Obama made the exact same observation.

As has Van Jones.

So your OP may make you feel good. But there's obviously more to the mix that just simply saying they're racist.

[uponit7771]

21. Obama didn't have to run against an overt white supremacist either... that's the difference