Is this really an insult?

[Panich52]

Last edited Thu Aug 16, 2018, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)

This morning I heard Omarosa say Laura Trump calling her "articulate" was an insult. I'm curious on whether Omarosa's take on it was because she saw a racist calling her "uppity" or just because it was a Caucasian? Or was she just being overly sensitive because the conversation was about, essentially, paying her hush money?

If someone said that to me I'd take it as a compliment, no matter their ethnicity (but I am white).


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Thank to all for clearing it up. I guess we all lived through the coinage of yet another "left-handed compliment" when "articulate" was used to properly describe Pres Obama.

This is a shame, since I still think it's a compliment.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. That's become a thing since some bridled when Obama was described as articulate.

The idea was that calling him articulate implied that other black people were not.

So now, every compliment is an insult.

That's just bullshit.

[bettyellen]

7. Every compliment is NOT an insult. Stop making shit up and try and listen for once.

[JHan]

16. it began with Colin Powell being referred to as "articulate"

Articulate was paired with "he speaks so well" as if that should be a surprising thing.

So the word in reference to African Americans has always been a bit coded. I think that's what Omarosa is tapping into.

[radical noodle]

17. And this from Biden

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

[JHan]

19. yeah that was unfortunate to say the least

[radical noodle]

20. Biden means well

but is prone to gaffes.

[LanternWaste]

23. You seem a wee bit hysterical.

Who (besides your esteemed self, of course) is arguing (or has argued) that every compliment is an insult?

No one.

[Kind of Blue]

39. No, it didn't become a thing over 8 years ago

when you became aware of it.

It's been a thing in my awareness over 40 years ago when I was a child and quickly advised on how to handle my feelings and reaction to it when a white person says I'm articulate. And at the same time, learning the history of why we feel this way, based on many lived experiences of blackness globally, that's included as just one more entry in the ways of white folks.

[FiveGoodMen]

42. Then because sarcasm exists, EVERY compliment is a potential insult

Sorry. You can't edit the language we all share that way.

[Kind of Blue]

43. You, my friend (sarcastically speaking).

are remarkably inarticulate.

[unblock]

2. (white person speaking) i've certainly heard white people use the term "articulate"

in a patronizing way toward black people. to my ear, it's more of a broad smear, implying that white people are presumed to be articulate but black people are presumed to be inarticulate.

white people don't compliment other white people for being "articulate". it's just a taken as given.


so when a white person refers to a black person as "articulate", first it implies that this should be considered surprising as opposed to taken as normal and natural; second, it is dismissive and demeaning. you say something important and the response is, wow, how remarkable that you speak clearly.

[Panich52]

9. Still compliment to me

Maybe it's the teacher/learning-oriented nature of my family, but complimenting on proper & effective language was not unusual.

[LanternWaste]

24. It's certainly a compliment if (and only if) we remove the implied 'compare and contrast' qualifier.

No doubt though, many people would even pretend "he's articulate... for a xxxxx" as a compliment as well.

[Kind of Blue]

40. So what? My dad was reared in a former British colony

and was a pain in the ass stickler for speaking proper English. But he still taught his children the ways of white folks that you're exhibiting right here. Explaining why being called articulate left a bitter taste in my mouth was definitely one of the ways we had to understand.

When you come to ask for understanding at least acknowledge some of it besides stressing your feelings. Though it is your privilege to do so after you've had plenty of explanations as why it is not a compliment, imo, you're a classic Number 10 of sociologist's Robin DiAngelo's The Rules of Engagement

You must focus on my intentions, which cancel out the impact of my behavior.

[happy feet]

10. This

[FiveGoodMen]

11. 'white people don't compliment other white people for being "articulate"'

Okay, I've been described as articulate.

My ancestors are Swedish and Dutch.

[unblock]

12. ok, i was speaking in general terms, so to clarify...

yeah, it's not a "absolutely never" kinda thing.

if you're exceptionally well-spoken, just made a great speech, or appeared in a play where everyone else mumbled, or if english is not your first language, etc., then sure, you might get recognized for being "articulate". and there, it's a genuine compliment.

the point is that *generally*, when a white person calls a black person "articulate", the typical subtext is a very different standard for articulateness.

[fleur-de-lisa]

3. White people who claim black people are "articulate"

come off as being surprised that a person of color can speak well. So, yes, it is an insult if you are black.

If you're white, no, it's not an insult.

[LanternWaste]

25. I think your explanation is obvious

Obvious to the point that (I believe) pretense alone explains the difficulty many are allegedly having with it.

[Panich52]

32. Racism destroys legitimate interactions

One of the most insidious aspects of racism—when honest compliments are seen as insults. It makes further interactions suspect or even impossible by immediately destroying accolades, instilling distrust.

[cyclonefence]

4. Yes. Describing a black person as "articulate" is insulting.

How often do we hear white people described as "articulate?" Saying a black person is articulate is sort of like expressing surprise that that person is capable of using standard English. When the word is used about a white person, it's about someone who truly has a gift for words; when it is used about a black person, it's about someone who can speak in complete sentences.

[Laffy Kat]

6. I agree.

Remember when way back when Biden described Obama as "clean"? He later apologized and clarified that he meant "fresh." This was around the time President Obama was still a senator and spoke at the Democratic National Convention.

[Panich52]

33. It's not that it's intentional, and that's the point

We whites who don't normally have much contact with blacks, or any other (supposed) minority, may not realize an insult is taken. That's the sub rosa outcome of racism—inhibiting relations by turning what one might think of as a compliment into an insult.

[cyclonefence]

35. I get your point

and it seems a little unfair that we white people of good will get criticized if we use language that we didn't realize was insulting. But I think that's what "woke" means. It means we have to pay attention to what black people say and write. We need to start reading sites like the Root and reading Effie Black's posts. We have to "get woke". It's on us to educate ourselves if we don't want to be part of the problem.

It's well and good to say "I didn't mean that to be hurtful," but the hurt is real no matter what the intention was.

[The Polack MSgt]

5. Too choose that particular adjective is insulting and racist

That "compliment" cannot be divorced from it's usage as a tool to divide the "good coloreds" from the "bad coloreds" in the minds of it's intended audience.

When the phrase "He (or She) is really articulate" it is a message to other white people. It is a code for "this one sounds white"

It is not a compliment to the person to which it refers.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. To pick that word now, especially, in reference to AA is obvious.

I am glad at least this question was asked HERE and not in GD of what is the make up of this or any mainstream site.

If you get my get.

[Panich52]

34. I asked it here because if one wants a serious, truthful answer

one goes to the ones who know the subject best. It would've been pointless to ask on GD since education was my goal.

[Kind of Blue]

41. +1000 Thank You.

[braddy]

8. "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a

nice-looking guy," Biden said. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."

[rogue emissary]

13. You're doing a disservice to Biden.

I'm sure there are a lot of liberal politician's that have said similar thing as Biden.

The difference is Ingraham has made a career out of inflammatory and down right racist statements.

[braddy]

14. Any "disservice" is in your own mind.

[rogue emissary]

15. Yeah that's how writing works.

Still doesn't explain why you brought a Biden quote to discuss what Ingraham said.

[radical noodle]

18. When did we start talking

about Ingraham? I guess I missed that. The Biden reference (which I made above as well), was brought to mind when thinking about articulate being an insult. Biden was, at the time, bashed pretty heavily for that remark he made.

[rogue emissary]

21. I was making a bad joke.

I keep forgetting there's an actual Laura Trump. as I've referred to Ingraham as Laura Trump.

[radical noodle]

22. Gotcha!

[MaryMagdaline]

27. Yes, it's an insult

"Articulate" is almost like "well-spoken." It's a dog whistle, not really a complement.

[MaryMagdaline]

28. I deliberately describe white people (I am white) as "well spoken" now just to annoy RWers

[Corvo Bianco]

29. They call this the soft bigotry of low expectations. nt.

[KT2000]

30. it could be either

Last edited Mon Aug 20, 2018, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)

depending on how it is used. I know I have said Barack Obama and Tavis Smiley were articulate but it was surely a compliment. They are stunning in their ability to speak in well formed paragraphs when confronted with questions or in debate, outside of a prepared speech. Tavis Smiley does it at lightening speed which is fun to watch, though I don't always agree with him for sure.

Hillary Clinton, Adam Schiff and Swalwell can be said to be articulate though their delivery is more pedantic.

I am going to hold on to that word as a compliment because I can't think of another word to use when someone is outstanding in their verbal skills. I always notice this as I am terrible with verbal skills.

[Croney]

31. I'm thinking about how I would react if a black person told me

(a white person) that I am articulate. I'm pretty sure I would just say thank you. But I would never do the reverse; it sounds patronizing. Actually, I would never tell a person of any color that they're articulate. They already know it, and don't need my approval.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. I love this -

Explains it quite well!

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Default Setting

Yes - it is.

It's a Default Setting approach to people.

It's up there with -

You aren't black like that.


Like what?

[Kind of Blue]

38. Yeah, it's up there with non compliments such as in my experience...

"Is that your real hair?" said with surprise. Or, "Can I touch your hair?"
"You don't look like an African," said with bewilderment. Or, "You're not totally African," you know, because I have to validate my existence.
"Smile, you look much better when you do," to make another feel comfortable when I'm totally at ease or on-task.
"Ooh, I'm as dark as you," irritates me because I know said person will never be, not even almost even after 24 hours of intense sunlight.
"You're so exotic," as if I were a different species.
"You all," and "Not you."
"We're all from Africa, anyway," said with dismissal and deflection.
Here in Southern California, "You're so lucky you don't have to use sunscreen," like I'm immune to the sun.
"I wish I were as strong as you," as if I naturally am and not because of persistent systemic racism.
"Black people have come a long way." No, you've come a long way from where your ancestors started.

And sometimes, I really don't like being known as part of the "backbone of the Democratic Party" when all black women are seriously doing is trying to save our own lives and nobody else's backbone.

The coinage as a left-handed compliment did not appear over 8 years ago. It's been a thing for at least 40 years in my lifetime and I'm sure way beforehand.