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H2O Man

(75,379 posts)
Fri Sep 22, 2023, 02:31 PM Sep 2023

Boxing

Sept. 23: London (ESPN+) 5 pm/est
Title fight: Zhilei Zhang vs. Joe Joyce, 12 rounds, for Zhang's WBO heavyweight interim title


Joe Joyce was known for his extreme punching power, his ability to take punches, and his endurance. He had wonnumerous European amateur titles, then silver in the 2016 Olympics. As a professional, he won a few minor titles, knocked out tough competition, and was in line for a world title fight. He took a "stay busy" fight against Zhang in April.

Zhang had lost his last fight by decision to an undefeated contender, after tiring out and getting hurt in the second half of his first 12 round bout. He had not competed with the same quality of opponents as Joyce had until that point. But he had a surprise for Joyce -- exploitig Joe's ability to take punches.

At 6' 6" Zhang was an inch taller than Joyce, and his 80' reach was a mere half-inch less. Add to that, he is a southpaw, and Joyce had little experience against left-handed opponents. Thus, because Joyce had near zero upper body movement, Zhang was able to land his jab at will. And once you can land the jab, everything else follows.

The fight was stopped in the 6th round, because Joyce's eye was completely closed. He threw more punches, but landed less, because he had trouble seeing his opponent. For the first time that I am aware of, he appeared to be getting hurt as Zhang began to land most of his hardest punches.

To be fair, Joyce was ahead on one judge'sscorecard. And his punches were hurting Zhang. He believed he could have pulled the win out if allowed to continue. So it is no surprise he wanted the immediate re-match after his upset loss. He has also offered a number of excuses for the loss -- I note that winners never need excuses -- he took Zhang too lightly, came in too light, was unprepared for a southpaw, etc.

Both men weighed in heavier for tomorrow's fight than for the first one. At 287 lbs, Zhang is nine pounds heavier; at 281 lbs, Joyce is 25 pounds heavier. Joyce has also brought in the great Cuban trainer Ismael Salas. It strikes me as unlikely that even Salas could instill upper body movement in Joyce, especially considering the additional weight. Fighters with a "that didn't hurt" attitude almost always resort to their old tactics once they get hit. (There may have been exceptions, but I'm not aware of any. But I've only been in the sport 60+ years.)

Instead, I will assume Salas worked on parrying the jab, a catch-and-counter approach. I'm unsure if Joyce can maintain a bladed stance at distance, but that would be important. It isn't good to be squared-up until you are inside. Also, Joyce should work the body early in the fight, making it more difficult for Zhang to carry that 287 pounds. Bring the fight into the deep waters of round seven on.

For Zhang, if he can land the jab and avoid being countered, it is likely Joyce will revert to what made him vulnerable in the first fight. A solid jab -- and a 287 lb pound fighter will have a solid jab -- will damage the same eye that was swollen shut in the first fight. Damage around the eyes, be it swelling or cuts, does not tend to heal well in fice months. Especially when one is 38 years old.

Enjoy the fight!

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Boxing (Original Post) H2O Man Sep 2023 OP
SPOILER ALERT!!! True Dough Sep 2023 #1
That was impressive! H2O Man Sep 2023 #2
Andy Ruiz Jr. would be another option True Dough Sep 2023 #3
Right. H2O Man Sep 2023 #4

H2O Man

(75,379 posts)
2. That was impressive!
Sat Sep 23, 2023, 08:12 PM
Sep 2023

Joyce was at an angle, parrying the punches, but slow as heck. Bradley had spoke of Zhang's right hook.

I'm not sure who he'll end up with. Maybe Fury, maybe Usyk. Both would be interesting. What do you think?

True Dough

(20,140 posts)
3. Andy Ruiz Jr. would be another option
Sat Sep 23, 2023, 09:17 PM
Sep 2023

I think Fury would avoid Zhang because he doesn't spark much interest, so it's not a big payday (relatively speaking -- it is a payday that I'd jump at, personally).

H2O Man

(75,379 posts)
4. Right.
Sat Sep 23, 2023, 11:13 PM
Sep 2023

It looks like with no Fury vs Usyk this year, that Usyk will defend against Filip Hrgovix -- who beat Zhang in August of 2022. So Ruiz would make sense to me.

I don't think Wilder would be a good fight for Zhang. But I could be wrong. Either way, I think it would sell. Joshua would be good, and could go either way. But I am not sure Joshua is in a good place mentally.

Neither Parker or Ortiz fights would sell or improve his standing. "Stay busy" fights, at best.

After that, there are the young lions. A lot is being said of Anderson, but I think his people would want two fights before meeting Zhang. He is very good, and has real potential. But I don't think they'll move him that fast. Really, there's no need to do that. He is in a solid position now. By late summer next year, he should begin his prime.

There are a couple of other young guys with real potential -- but not ready to step up yet. That leaves Daniel Dubois. He would be the best option after Ruiz.

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