Are Republican Christians really atheists?

[trotsky]

It has been suggested that bad people who claim to be Christians (like Republicans who cut welfare) are actually atheists. Just curious how one's religious perspective affects their answer.

18 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, and I am a Christian.
	0 (0%)
	Yes, and I am not a Christian.
	2 (11%)
	No, and I am a Christian.
	1 (6%)
	No, and I am not a Christian.
	15 (83%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Moostache]

1. I object to the characterization of atheists as "bad people"...

That may not be the intent here, so I do not impugn the OP's intent, just the misguided perception that can be drawn that in any respect is "atheist" synonymous with "bad". It is an in-artfully phrased opening sentence at best.

Atheism is not a religion or a world view or a philosophy. It is a statement of non-belief in a proposition. It is a lack of belief based on a lack of provided evidence for the proposition of a theistic universe.

There is nothing inherently "bad" in that position.

[trotsky]

2. Exactly. And rolled up into the suggestion is that religion can only make people good.

And thus, that bad people just need to "get religion" (REAL religion) to become good people.

That's bigotry against non-believers.

[DetlefK]

3. The correct term is "non-religious", not "atheist".

"Theists" care about religion and think there is a God.
"Atheists" care about religion and think there is no God.
"Non-religious" people just don't care about religion at all.
(Funny thing is, according to polls about twice as many people consider themselves non-religious compared to the people who consider themselves atheists.)

I mean, even if you strip away all the supernatural stuff from Jesus Christ's story, there's still the moral that we should be nice to each other and care for each other. Even atheists think that this is a good moral. And those pseudo-christian Republicans shy even away from this smallest-possible common denominator.

[trotsky]

4. Wrong.

I care about religion because it influences my life even though I don't believe in any gods.

"Atheist" has LONG held a very negative perception - it's been stigmatized by the (surprise!) religious people in power for centuries. You are perpetuating that stigma.

Do you think it's possible Republicans DO think we should be nice to each other, but that sometimes being nice means having to help someone improve themselves by showing "tough love"? Jesus cursed people and things and said that some people would burn in hell forever, so it's not like they don't have a biblical reason to think that way.

[PassingFair]

14. What's the difference between

... not believing in "God" and not caring about religion?

[hrmjustin]

5. I don't think it is fair to say if a "Christian" doesn't act like one would expect from a Christian

that they are then really atheists.

[marylandblue]

6. People aren't consistent

You can firmly believe in a just and merciful God without being just and merciful yourself.

[trotsky]

7. Or you can have a different concept of what "just and merciful" means.

If the bible were clear on exactly what it teaches, there would be only one version of Christianity.

[FiveGoodMen]

54. "If the bible were clear on exactly what it teaches..."

Amazing, isn't it, that the god who knows all and sees all and can do all ...

...didn't see that his followers wouldn't be able to agree on what his book's message was?

[trotsky]

55. Worse, it's almost like this god WANTED people to disagree.

Or just didn't even care.

[FiveGoodMen]

56. Or just wasn't paying attention

(because he isn't there)

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. Bingo.

I would also add that is virtually impossible to follow ALL the moral dictates of a bronze century carpenter without being sent to prison or tossed in the looney bin. Every believer is selective about what rules they follow, which they bend, and which they flat out ignore.

[trotsky]

11. Reminded me of this:

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. The crazy part is that isn't much of a stretch.

The Essenes were notoriously strict in their interpretation of Rabbinical law. Dogma dictated latrines be placed 1,500 to 4,500 feet from a village, father than the Essenes believed they were allowed to travel on the Sabbath.

[guillaumeb]

20. Well said.

[FiveGoodMen]

28. Matthew 25

41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,


You really can't believe in the guy who said that and still think that you can get away with what the GOP is doing.

[LonePirate]

8. I don't know if they are atheists but they are certainly amoral hypocrites.

[mwooldri]

9. Republican Christians are not atheists.

They believe in a God.

However I do not believe that Republican ideology and the Bible (as I understand it) are compatible... especially New Testament and the Gospel theology.

[Cartoonist]

12. They believe God is just like them.

Full of hate and vengeance.

[guillaumeb]

15. Where was this seriously suggested?

[trotsky]

16. Right here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029264322

[guillaumeb]

17. I cannot speak for MM, but my reading was that he was

making a point about self-described believers and their actions rather than attacking atheists.

MM has also previously identified as an atheist in posts. Even a relative newcomer like me has read this so a long time member such as you could have also read his self-descriptions.

[trotsky]

18. I am aware that Mineral Man is an atheist.

He was also promoting anti-atheist bigtory.

Do you think that people who are good can be Christians, but people who are bad cannot, and must be atheists?

[guillaumeb]

19. He was not promoting any such bigotry.

Unless, of course, you have proof that such was his intention.

[trotsky]

21. Maybe the few dozen atheists telling him he was?

But I realize you have a different understanding of what bigotry and intolerance truly look like. I'm sure you are way more in tune with what anti-atheist bigotry looks like, being a theist and all. That must certainly give you a clearer perspective than the people who actually experience it.

[guillaumeb]

23. Again, are you stating that you have proof of MM's motivation?

If so, feel free to present such proof.

[Voltaire2]

25. Motivation isn't required.

Intent and motivation are frequently not consciously present when people do bigoted things.

[guillaumeb]

29. Again, accusations and imputations without any evidence.

But if it serves a narrative, I understand the "why".

If MM was trying to point out the difference between claimed beliefs and actions, his post makes sense.

Have you ever read "A Modest Proposal", by Jonathan Swift?

If so, do you feel that Swift was advocating for cannibalism, or making a much different point?

[Voltaire2]

33. The original post declared that bad Christians

must be atheists. Intent and motivation didn't matter. It was a bigoted statement. People say bigoted things all the time without intent. Best to let them know, right?

Comparing the op to swift is insulting to literature and the English language. And yes satire frequently descends into bigotry intentional or otherwise.

[guillaumeb]

36. If that is/was your interpretation,

no argument will matter. But my feeling is that you misread the post and misinterpreted the poster's meaning.

[trotsky]

53. And that's just your interpretation, man.

So there we are.

[trotsky]

49. Yes, I do.

He stated it.

You can ask him for further clarification.

[Bretton Garcia]

22. I'm reading MM as a liberal atheist ... transitioning from liberal Christianity.

And still using some of its conceptual framework. Including the idea of a "bad" conservative evangelical Christianity, and a "liberal" and "good" one.

[guillaumeb]

24. And I was reading his post as mocking those who self-describe as Christian.

And accusing them of failure to follow their professed beliefs.

But, unlike some, I make no claims as to his intent.

[Bretton Garcia]

35. I invite M to make his intentions clear.

[guillaumeb]

40. Perhaps you should send a personal message. eom

[Lordquinton]

38. You're actually the only one making those claims

This isn't an abstract exercise, you have actual Atheists here telling you you what they feel.

But that doesn't fit your narrative, I suppose.

[guillaumeb]

39. And MM has explained his intent.

And self-identified as an atheist.

Does that fit your particular narrative?

[Lordquinton]

41. You keep bringing up intent as if it mattered

It doesn't, the words are a long used method of maligning atheists, and hearing them from an atheist doesn't change their meaning, especially when further discussion reveals his own ignorance of his own words.

You too should learn that the line of thinking is bigoted and harmful to many.

[guillaumeb]

45. So when Richard Pryor used the "n" word, was he engaging in self-hate,

or revealing his own ignorance, or exploring something that might make others uncomfortable?

[Lordquinton]

52. What he said was a hateful sentiment, flat out

You are in the wrong here and digging further.

Please top trying to excuse bigoted language.

[guillaumeb]

57. You are missing the point.

My opinion.

[Lordquinton]

58. No, I get your and his point

You are both wrong.

[Bretton Garcia]

42. See my query to MM as to exact particulars

In #34, "Some people have misinterpreted. "

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218251832#post34

[guillaumeb]

46. An interesting response.

I am fairly certain that I am not infallible, and when I am unsure my wife reminds me of all of the times I have proven my own fallibility.

Again, I feel MM was attempting to call out some Republicans regarding the apparent disconnect between what they say they believe and what they do.

We all make mistakes, we are all guilty of intolerance and anger. The goal, or my goal, is to reduce the anger and intolerance in my own life. I use Jesus Christ as one of my examples. But, being fallible, I know that I will fail in my goals at times.

[Bretton Garcia]

47. My position is that even "good," humbler Christianity,

... since it still calls itself Christian, still ends up strengthening all Christianity overall; good and bad. And? That even many "good" things, like spirituality, turn out to be bad, false spirits.

However of course, any occasional humility rather than infallibility, is appreciated all around.

[rzemanfl]

26. No, they're just greedy motherf**kers. n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

27. In one form or another, definitely!

No one who really thought that their salvation depended on Jesus would metaphorically hold him down and shit in his face every day.

[uriel1972]

32. That they aren't your definition of True Christian(tm)...

doesn't make them non-Christian or Atheists. If they believe in one of the Christian versions of God then they are Christian whether you approve or not.

It's kinda like calling the Lutherans, the RCC or the Mormons Atheists because you don't approve of their form of worship.

On top of abusing the definition you are still saying that Atheists are intrinsically bad people, by saying these bad people MUST be Atheists.

Auto-correct wants to capitalize Christian, but not Atheists... hmmm

[SamKnause]

30. No, they are EVIL assholes and the question is insulting to Atheists.

WTF ????

[Iggo]

31. Only an atheist would cut welfare?

[Voltaire2]

34. Let's rework that nonsense this way: Republican Christians are really Muslims.

Now is it clear what sort of bigoted crap this is?

Note that this re-working is pretty much what the fascist right was throwing at Obama for eight years.

[Lordquinton]

37. Very good point

Unlike some logical extremes, this one is spot on.

[jberryhill]

43. It's not as if the God of the Bible is some kind of nice guy

The God of the Bible has no problem conducting and/or ordering mass slaughter in various fits of pique.

[Rob H.]

44. They're not atheists any more than former members of FreeRepublic

who now post here are "lifelong Democrats."

[trotsky]

48. Oh, snap! n/t

[Fix The Stupid]

50. lol...exactly...all getting taken in by the biggest troll this site has... n/t

[ret5hd]

51. No shit.

[Gore1FL]

59. If they were atheists they would be prone to apply logic and questioning.

They don't.

They are indeed Christians.

[beam me up scottie]

60. No. And we're tired of taking the blame for them.

Christians should stop calling Republicans Satan worshipers too, Satanists don't want to be associated with them either.