It's more than just a bit insulting when religionists claim religion is required for morality

[Major Nikon]

Religionists make this claim with no evidence. There's no empirical data that suggests this is true, it's just something they believe. In fact, numerous studies suggest the opposite is true and that's just for the behaviors that pretty much everyone agrees are wrong. If you look at things like homophobia, xenophobia, and misogyny those things tend to get worse the more people adhere to various religious doctrines many of which even support those unethical behaviors.

The obvious insult is that those who are irreligious lack their moral framework and as such are inherently prone to unethical behavior. We see this implication all the time. When a person who claims to subscribe to a religious doctrine does something unethical, the immediate assertion from religionists is they aren't a true (insert belief system here). Evidently this makes it easier to rationalize than admitting their belief system itself is subject to moral failure.

The inherent problem with using religious doctrine as a moral framework is it tends to be uncompromising and resistant to changes in prevailing attitudes regarding ethical behavior. It also relies on the fallacy of circular reasoning rather than rationality. What is acceptable and unacceptable behavior today isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, and these attitudes change because of rationality. More often than not it has to drag organized religion behind kicking and screaming.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Good people can be good regardless of whether they are religious;

but bad people can use their religion as an excuse for doing bad things. That's a bit of an oversimplification, of course; but while religion might give a good person a structure for doing good things, it can also provide a bad person with a doctrinal basis which they can interpret as meaning that the bad things they do are permitted or even commanded.

[Siwsan]

3. Well put

[Major Nikon]

4. Such is the pitfal of relying on a centuries old guidebook

It was written by people who had a very different ethical viewpoint and only remains relevant only because they insist it's a fax from a supernatural entity.

[still_one]

6. Absolutely. A lot of wars have been done in the "name of religion"

[trotsky]

8. But "bad" people don't see it as an "excuse."

They might truly believe that atrocious stuff in holy texts.

They might also be a decent person who was brainwashed into thinking certain holy book passages are the word of god and must be followed, under penalty of eternal damnation.

If only it was so simple to just blame "bad people" for misinterpreting a holy text.

[Major Nikon]

9. Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham aren't just widely regarded as "good people"

They are elevated to the status of prophetic despite promoting evil behaviors and attitudes.

[MineralMan]

17. Exactly.

[ladjf]

2. Their claim display an extremely narrow view of "morality". nt

[still_one]

5. Well stated. I find it disappointing, and somewhat amusing at the same time that some are

expressing outrage that trump did not recite the Apostles creed, stating that means he is either not a Christian, or he is a hypocrite.

I find these judgements in regard to religion, that some impose the way others should behave, perhaps hypocritical itself

[Mariana]

11. They seem to be expecting Trumps Christian supporters

to turn on him because he didn't recite some words at a funeral, as if that's somehow worse than all the actual immoral behavior that Trump has engaged in.

[still_one]

18. Wow Mariana what an excellent point

[sprinkleeninow]

19. I do believe there's a goodly number of 'sects' that don't recite this creed or have a clue as to

what it is, it's meaning/purpose, and it's original conception which is properly named The Nicene Creed.

It's like a 'mission' statement of sorts that some o' them 'others' are fond of in expressing why their faith. IOW, one would think 'they' who are clueless would be all for this creed. Altho' anything smacking of Latin Rite Catholicism is anathema. They do like them power points too.

Just sayin' dot dot dot

[Mariana]

20. I was made to go to Baptist church and Sunday School.

It wasn't done there, the only thing the congregation would recite like that was the Baptist version of the Lord's Prayer. I never even knew there was such a thing until I went to Mass with Roman Catholic friends.

Anyway, I stand by what I said. If Trump's Christian supporters weren't bothered by stuff like him bragging about sexually assaulting women, they certainly aren't going to get worked up over this.

[sprinkleeninow]

22. You are correct in that. If they let the grabbing slide, tolerating that and making ridiculous

excuses for his filthy ways, a non recitation of a stinkin' holy creed isn't gonna faze them.

[exboyfil]

7. My cousin thought it was almost a spiritual issue

that I did not support Trump. I don't know how things got so far off the rails.

The fact that it took many Christians 2,000 years to figure out you shouldn't buy and sell human beings says something about their morality.

[Major Nikon]

10. There's a verse for that

What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
-- Romans 8:31

[Mariana]

12. To be fair, the book clearly teaches that God approves of slavery.

Slavery is even covered in the 10 Commandments. God ordered the people not to covet their neighbors' slaves.

[exboyfil]

14. Yes and Aron Ra and others

say that you can develop a superior moral code to the Bible by simply changing that one position.

[TlalocW]

16. I've used that in discussions as a gotcha

Me: So the Bible is the most moral book ever?
Christian: Yes.
Me: I bet I can write a more moral one.
Christian: No, you can't.
Me: Wanna see?
Christian: Fine.
Me: Take the whole Bible as it is then replace Exodus 21 with DON'T OWN PEOPLE AS PROPERTY!

TlalocW

[NeoGreen]

13. They believe they have knowledge...

... and wisdom:




http://www.jesusandmo.net/comic/born/

[TlalocW]

15. What I think is amusing

Is that I don't believe religious people have morality. They have an instruction book. Oh, they might have Bible studies where they will look at a certain moral issue raised by some passages and discuss it, but they will either agree with what the passages say (if they like it) or make excuses for the passages or for not following them (if they don't like it). If their god somehow made it 100% known today, that kicking puppies daily was necessary to be Christian and to get into Heaven, then tomorrow, if they wanted to remain Christians and show their love for God, there would be a lot of punted puppies, even if they felt bad doing it, and all but the most psycho ones would. Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham would be giggling after each boot to a puppy.

TlalocW

[guillaumeb]

21. Yes, it is.

[Iggo]

23. Yep, it's also stupid and wrong.