I haven't been to a church in years and had to go to one a couple of weeks ago for work.

[Eko]

I had to see some people perform and some of the performers were very religious oriented in their performance. I was a bit surprised as this was not a religious event. One thing in common with the religious performances were that the theme was feeling alone, growing up without a father and now they found their forever father or their forever family. At that point I realized that these people really needed a therapist and that the people enabling them and supporting them did not have their best interests at heart but were using them to increase their religion. They were encouraging them that they now had found their forever father or family and instead of helping them deal with the problems they were having they were helping them cover it up. I found this very troubling and have thought on it quite a few times in the past weeks. Thinking back on my life there were two types of people who were religious. Those that grew up in religion and were kind of milquetoast about their religion and those that found god at one point or another. The ones that found god almost always had major drug problems, mental health problems they couldn't deal with or a major loss in their life. I wonder what the percentage of the latter group fell that back into their problems vs the people that got professional help who fell back into their problems would be.

[SWBTATTReg]

1. Good analysis and good points made. NT

[guillaumeb]

2. A very simplistic atttempt at analysis.

But, if it makes you feel better about your own choices and beliefs, I understand.

[Eko]

4. An even more simplistic response,

almost as if you don't really want to have a dialogue and instead want to insult. Adding this, But, if it makes you feel better about your own choices and beliefs, I understand.

[guillaumeb]

5. If you really wanted dialogue,

you would not have posted something that basically puts all theists into 2 negative categories.

If I said that all atheists could be divided into 2 categories, those who are openly hostile to theists, and those who hide their hostility, would you take that as an attempt at dialogue?

One assumes not.

So what dialogue, other than affirmation from your fellow non-theists, do you expect?

[Eko]

7. This is negative??

Definition of milquetoast

: a timid, meek, or unassertive person

Really? It says nothing about hiding hostility at all. I think you are reading too much into that buddy. The milquetoast people of religion that I know are those that believe in what they believe but dont push it on others or judge others for what they believe or dont.An "unassertive person ". Its possible you are thinking it was an insult but it wasn't. Would you like to revise your answer now?

[guillaumeb]

9. You made a very simplistic argument that divides theists into 2 groups.

Just as I did with my sarcastic response to you about atheists.

So no, my opinion is the same.

[Eko]

12. Except that yours were both negative.

And both of mine were not. Big difference wouldn't you say?

[guillaumeb]

13. Mine was deliberately sarcastic.

So yes, there is a difference.

[Eko]

15. Yes, mine was real

and yours ventured into troll territory. You obviously don't want a discussion so go away until you do.
Thanks!

[guillaumeb]

18. Well, you did write this story.

And did you interview all of the people that you met, or was this an inspired insight on your part?

Speaking of venturing into troll territory, what social scientist would make such a hasty judgment on the basis of one short visit?

Shall I judge ala theist by the behavior of the atheists who head the Chinese Government?

[Eko]

20. I didnt know I was a social scientist.

When is my paycheck coming??

[Eko]

23. Are you a religious theologian?

Do you have college degrees in religious studies? If not what gives you the right to opine since I have to be a social scientist? Oh yeah, you have faith lol.

[guillaumeb]

26. So you have no real qualifications to make such a statement.

At least you admitted it.

[Eko]

27. Do you?

[guillaumeb]

29. You made the statements.

You started the "dialogue" by defining all theists.

[Eko]

31. Do you have the qualifications

to say there are not? Feel free to share them with us.

[guillaumeb]

38. OK.

[MineralMan]

11. You'll get no discourse from that source,

I'm afraid.

[guillaumeb]

24. No real dialogue was expected, in my view.

Just affirmation of a judgment.

Feel free to read my sarcastic point about the 2 types of atheists.

[KT2000]

3. A lot is about recruitment

look for a weak spot and exploit.

[LoisB]

6. Interesting and thought-provoking.

[Eko]

8. Thanks.

[guillaumeb]

10. Thought provoking?

Yes, in a way.

Are there only 2 types of theists, do you think?

[Eko]

14. Its entirely possible there are more than 2 types.

But you have yet to show any kind of argument that there are not so until you do its moot buddy.

[guillaumeb]

16. Interesting logic.

And this passes for dialogue?

[Eko]

17. Depends.

Dialogue or sarcasm? Which one do you want to have now guill?

[guillaumeb]

19. #18

[Eko]

21. So your answer is

more

[guillaumeb]

22. No, I asked you questions.

And you can respond to the questions, or not.

[Eko]

25. State your questions.

[guillaumeb]

28. I did, but here they are again:

And did you interview all of the people that you met, or was this an inspired insight on your part?

Speaking of venturing into troll territory, what social scientist would make such a hasty judgment on the basis of one short visit?

Shall I judge all atheists by the behavior of the atheists who head the Chinese Government?

[Eko]

30. ok.

I did not interview anyone, I was not there to do that. I am not a reporter so I saw no need to do that. I told what I saw and if you have questions about that I would be happy to talk about that.

I never said I was a social scientist, why would that matter? Do I have to be one to say what I saw and thought?

Have you met any atheists who head the Chinese government and talked to them?

There you go.

[guillaumeb]

37. Thank you for the response.

But I still truly wonder what exactly you saw and/or heard in your brief stay to make such a statement?

[Eko]

42. If you have specific questions feel free to ask them.

[guillaumeb]

43. I just did.

You made a statement about what you see as the 2 types of theists present there.

Those with significant personality issues, and what you call the meek ones.

It sounds as if you are classifying all theists in that way.

[Eko]

44. Guess you missed the part

where I said "unassertive person" as someone that does not push their religion on others nor judge others for their religion or lack of it. I made that pretty clear, Im not sure why you want to resort to strawman.

[Voltaire2]

46. You don't do dialog, so you have no legs

to stand on here.

[Pendrench]

32. Hi Eko - Thank you for posting this.

I imagine that you might consider me to be a "milquetoast" Christian, in that I was raised Catholic (including 12 years of Catholic school), and I still attend weekly mass.

But I also respect others' beliefs as well as those who do not believe in any god or gods.

As I've mentioned before, if there is a god (or gods), I truly believe that the most important goal he/she/it/they have for us is to love each other and to take care of those in need.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts - I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.

Wishing you well and peace.

Tim

[Eko]

34. Hey Tim!

I don't mean milquetoast in a negative way, just someone who doesn't push or judge others for their religion or lack of. I agree that the most important goal is for us to love each other and take care of those in need.
Keep on keeponing!
Eko.

[Pendrench]

39. Hi Eko - Thank you for taking time to reply to my comment.

And I took your "milquetoast" comment in the positive way that you mentioned

So all is good.

Wishing you a very Happy New Year!

Tim

[Eko]

41. Happy new year sir!

[PJMcK]

33. I guess they didn't convert you, Eko! (n/t)

[Eko]

35. lol, no.

[TlalocW]

36. You know what they say

Religion convinces you you're lame then offers (or sells) you a crutch.

TlalocW

[Pendrench]

40. Hi TlalocW - that's very interesting - I never hear that before.

Definitely something to think about!

Wishing you well and peace

Tim

[Voltaire2]

45. It is an interesting question.

It might just be the case the religion is just as (in)effective as other forms of therapy.