How many Americans hold a literal interpretation of the Bible?

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

The percentage of U.S. adults who believe that God created humans in their present form at some time within the last 10,000 years or so -- the strict creationist view -- has reached a new low. Thirty-eight percent of U.S. adults now accept creationism,
while 57% believe in some form of evolution -- either God-guided or not -- saying man developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life.

To read more:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/210956/belief-creationist-view-humans-new-low.aspx

So, if one is to accept these numbers, slightly more than 1/3 of Americans are strict creationists. Or literalists.

And in England, the number of strict creationists is even lower.

After carrying out detailed face-to-face interviews with over a hundred Christians and Muslims, Unsworth designed her own survey. Of 2,116 people in Britain, she found that only 3% reject the idea that plants and animals have evolved from earlier life forms, whilst 6.8% reject the idea that humans have evolved from non-human life forms. Only 4% would qualify as young earth creationists.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2015/01/27/new-survey-finds-creationism-in-britain-has-been-overstated/#11e1b7af2685

So the idea that Christians generally accept a literal reading of the Bible is simply not supported by actual evidence.

[guillaumeb]

1. Another source:

Ninety percent of evangelical leaders say it is acceptable for evangelicals to have different views regarding the origin of the earth so long as they maintain that God is the creator, according to the September Evangelical Leaders Survey.
“Evangelicals hold varying perspectives of how God created the earth — from a literal seven-day interpretation of Genesis to God-guided evolution,” said Leith Anderson, president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE). “But they vehemently agree that God is the creator of the earth. How God chose to create is important, but it is secondary.”

https://www.nae.net/evangelicals-can-different-views-creation-leaders-say/

[Bretton Garcia]

43. Creatonism once meant a rationalization of divine creation

It wasn't quite simply literal therefore, entirely. But it was literal in believing in a God. Just as other believers do.

[Girard442]

2. None. Not one.

They believe they believe, but if they actually believed, they'd be acting a lot differently than they do.

[Major Nikon]

3. Or in other words, half of US Christians

[Major Nikon]

4. If anyone is wondering, this new thread is in response to Gil's duplicity about something I claimed

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=305931

[guillaumeb]

5. Calling me a liar again?

Understood. Your responses vary between gifs and ad hominem.

[Major Nikon]

6. Demonstrably so, which isn't ad hominem, BTW

1) You duplicitously claimed I said at least half of the US adult population subscribes to YEC when in fact I said half of Christians.

2) You then used your deception to make a half-fast condescension of my abilities with basic math when I proved I was exactly correct.

3) You then once again engaged in condescension by claiming my "logic" is somehow deficient.

4) Now you are trying to gaslight everyone who reads any of this by pretending I didn't substantiate my claim.

So why do you feel the need to lie in order to try to humiliate me, Gil? And now that I think about it, this isn't just with me, it's pretty much all the prominent atheist posters in this group. So why do you hate atheists, Gil? What is it about us that frightens you so?

[guillaumeb]

7. If you had said at least 1/2 of Protestants,

you would have been correct. But you said Christians.

So, once again, your claim is unsupported by the evidence.

Edited to add:

And even among Protestants, 45% accept evolution.

[Major Nikon]

8. I sure as fuck didn't say all Americans, Gil. You know like you said I did.

If you want to admit your fuckup and apologize for your condescension which resulted from it, I'm happy to go over the numbers with you again. But if you are going to continue with your duplicity, the most obvious explanation is it wasn't a fuckup at all and was instead a deliberate attempt at misrepresentation, or in other words a lie.

[guillaumeb]

9. You cannot support your statement.

And statistics, actual facts, do not support your statement.

That is not my fault. I did not make you write that statement, unless you are saying that I somehow hijacked your account and wrote what was written.

As to your claim of misrepresentation, that is laughable.

[Major Nikon]

10. You are confusing laughable with provable

1) You duplicitously claimed I said at least half of the US adult population subscribes to YEC when in fact I said half of Christians.

2) You then used your deception to make a half-fast condescension of my abilities with basic math when I proved I was exactly correct.

3) You then once again engaged in condescension by claiming my "logic" is somehow deficient.

4) Now you are trying to gaslight everyone who reads any of this by pretending I didn't substantiate my claim.

So why do you feel the need to lie in order to try to humiliate me, Gil? And now that I think about it, this isn't just with me, it's pretty much all the prominent atheist posters in this group. So why do you hate atheists, Gil? What is it about us that frightens you so?

For further reading, see...
http://gbntv.org/truth-about-lying/

[guillaumeb]

12. You can cut and paste your accusations as much as you wish.

You made a statement that you cannot substantiate. I am not saying that you are lying. I believe that you believed what you said.

And now you return to your meme that this is "atheist hating". No, it is simply demonstrating that you made a statement that was perhaps metaphorical. Yes, I will treat it as metaphorical.

[Major Nikon]

17. As long as you're going to continue to lie about it, then I wish

1) You duplicitously claimed I said at least half of the US adult population subscribes to YEC when in fact I said half of Christians.

2) You then used your deception to make a half-fast condescension of my abilities with basic math when I proved I was exactly correct.

3) You then once again engaged in condescension by claiming my "logic" is somehow deficient.

4) Now you are trying to gaslight everyone who reads any of this by pretending I didn't substantiate my claim.

So why do you feel the need to lie in order to try to humiliate me, Gil? And now that I think about it, this isn't just with me, it's pretty much all the prominent atheist posters in this group. So why do you hate atheists, Gil? What is it about us that frightens you so?

Probably best that you aren't a literalist, Gil.

Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

[guillaumeb]

19. Very dramatic. Very very dramatic. 2 veries.

I prefer the penguin gif.

[Major Nikon]

20. Even more dramatic when you admit your lie, but still won't take it back

Here's where you lied and said I was talking about all Americans:

As to your other claim, that "at least half" believe in young earth creationism:
...
When I studied math, using stone beads as place markers, 38% was less than 1/2, while 57% was more than 1/2.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=305906

Here's where you admit that wasn't what I was talking about:

But you said Christians.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=305955

I'd prefer it if you told the truth, Gil. I think your god would also.

Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

[guillaumeb]

21. EMMMMMMMMMMMM

A mantra for us all.

[Major Nikon]

23. So you think this thread is turning out as well as you'd hoped?

[guillaumeb]

25. 10 of the replies are yours.

What does that say?

and 290 views.

[Major Nikon]

28. Since you obviously directed at me, seems like you'd be happy about that

Or maybe you'd hoped others would agree that 120 million Americans who believe in YEC out of 240 Christians proves literalism isn't alive and well in the US.

[MineralMan]

11. Same group that supports Trump.

[guillaumeb]

13. Can I call you Minnie?

Short for MM?

According to the poll, 19 percent of Protestant pastors expressed certainty that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and that God created life in its present form in six 24-hour days. Thirty-five percent said while they believe that God created life in its present form in six 24-hour days, they express qualified certainty, or doubt the "young" age of the Earth.

https://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-many-protestant-pastors-lean-toward-young-earth-creation.html

[MineralMan]

15. Mimi would be more apropos.

It is MM, after all, Will.

[guillaumeb]

16. EMMMMMMMMMM.

It sounds very much like a mantra.

[Major Nikon]

14. Yeah, at about the same rate atheists vote D

So kinda strange when a theist comes to DU to hate on the atheists.

[guillaumeb]

18. IS this your new favorite meme?

Then "hate on the atheists" meme?

Was it inspired by another prolific poster in this group?

Perhaps you could petition for a group dedicated to that. One where your posts about the evils of theism would not be challenged.

[Major Nikon]

22. Sure, Gil, for you it's a meme. For others it's reality. Your lack of empathy is telling.

Last week, the Pew Research Center released the results of a new survey concerning who Americans would want – or rather, wouldn’t want – for an in-law. While about 10 percent of Americans said they’d be unhappy if a family member married someone of a different political persuasion, and about 30 percent of Americans said they’d be unhappy if a family member married a gun owner, nearly 50 percent of Americans said that they’d be unhappy if a family member married an atheist.

This finding comes as no surprise. Social science has long revealed high rates of secularphobia – the irrational dislike, distrust, fear, or hatred of nonreligious people – within American society. For example, a study by Penny Edgell of the University of Minnesota, from back in 2006, found that atheists come in last place when Americans are asked to rank members of certain racial, ethnic, or religious groups as potential spouses for their kids. And a Gallup poll from 2012 found that 43 pecent of Americans said that they would not vote for an atheist for president, putting atheists in last/worst place, behind Muslims (40 percent of Americans said they wouldn’t vote for a Muslim for president), homosexuals (30 percent wouldn’t), Mormons (18 percent wouldn’t), Latinos (7 percent wouldn’t), Jews (6 percent wouldn’t), Catholics (5 percent wouldn’t), women (5 percent wouldn’t) and African Americans (4 percent wouldn’t).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201406/why-americans-hate-atheists

[guillaumeb]

24. And the behavior of the Chinese Government atheist leaders toward theists?

A reaction?

And are there more current numbers, say later than 5 years ago?

[Major Nikon]

29. Are you seriously diverting from your own OP?

After giving so many sermons to others about that no less.

At least you are consistently inconsistent.

[Mariana]

38. You're talking to someone who has ridiculed atheists

who have received credible death threats from Christians. Some those recipients of death threats have been children.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218270285#post1

Read that thread and you'll have no doubt about exactly where Gil stands on this. By the way, you will notice a distinct lack of theists on that thread expressing support for atheist recipients of death threats from Christians, or condemning the Christians who issue them.

[Major Nikon]

39. Oh I know

It's not as if he hides it all that well. The only people he seems to care about are those he thinks have been wronged by any atheist, like Trump supporters.

[walkingman]

26. Probably more than we realize. America is in deep po po. Our education system has failed us.

[guillaumeb]

27. 38% in the US, 4% in the UK.

But Theresa May is the Conservative PM anyway.

[democratisphere]

30. Any is too many.

[rurallib]

31. based on their actions I would say 0

they believe in stuff they think is in the bible that backs up their prejudices.

[guillaumeb]

32. Yes, some do.

But there are also the examples of progressive theists. Like the Reverend Barber, for one.

[edhopper]

33. What about those who take parts of the Bible litterally

but not all?
Is this a all or nothing, or is there a spectrum of litteralists?
For instance, Is there any evidence that the story of the nativity is true, or is there loads of evidence it could not have happened as it says in the Bible?
Aren't those who say it is completely true litteralists?

[Major Nikon]

34. There's really almost no Christians who take all of it literally

Even the most hard core fundamentalists still leave themselves with a little wiggle room if you bother to read their doctrine. Very few Christians believe the world has 4 corners, insects have 4 legs, and pi = 3. Rather than take the literal road and look even more ridiculous than believing in 900 yr old people, they will simply say the bible does not say what it says, because obviously the bible can't be wrong.

It's also true that all of them take parts of it literally. The only difference is how much.

[guillaumeb]

35. A spectrum?

Probably in the sense that every believer might approach things differently.

[edhopper]

36. You don't think all Christains

take some part of the Bible litterally.

[guillaumeb]

59. Of course, but which parts varies. eom

[edhopper]

60. So all Christain

are in some part literalists.

[guillaumeb]

61. All Christians believe in the idea that Jesus lived in Bethlehem.

And that He is the Son of the Creator.

[edhopper]

62. How many believe in the

Nativity as told in the Bible or his death and resurrection?

Are there Christians who don't believe in the resurrection?

[guillaumeb]

63. I have no idea.

Nor can I answer for others.

[edhopper]

64. Wouldn't you say most Christians do think

Jesus was literally resurrected as told in the Bible.
Doesn't that make them literallists in part?

[guillaumeb]

65. Literalists in part?

If one assumes that Biblical literalism is an all or nothing position, all must be accepted as literally true.

But I accept much as metaphorical.

[Lordquinton]

66. So do you believe that the people here you call literalists

Think all parts of the Bible are literal?

[guillaumeb]

68. The term Biblical literalism:

Biblical literalism or biblicism is a term used differently by different authors concerning biblical interpretation. It can equate to the dictionary definition of literalism: "adherence to the exact letter or the literal sense",[1] where literal means "in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical".[2]
Alternatively, the term can refer to the historical-grammatical method, a hermeneutic technique that strives to uncover the meaning of the text by taking into account not just the grammatical words, but also the syntactical aspects, the cultural and historical background, and the literary genre. It emphasizes the referential aspect of the words in the text without denying the relevance of literary aspects, genre, or figures of speech within the text (e.g., parable, allegory, simile, or metaphor).[3] It does not necessarily lead to complete agreement upon one single interpretation of any given passage. This Christian fundamentalist and evangelical hermeneutical approach to scripture is used extensively by fundamentalist Christians,[4] in contrast to the historical-critical method of mainstream Judaism or Mainline Protestantism. Those who relate biblical literalism to the historical-grammatical method use the word "letterism" to cover interpreting the Bible according to the dictionary definition of literalism.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_literalism

So, before we can talk, we must recognize the problem with this term.

[Major Nikon]

69. Diversion noted

[guillaumeb]

73. You inserted this to divert from the actual dialogue.

Your diversion is noted.

[Major Nikon]

74. ...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=306205

[marylandblue]

70. When you call atheists here "literalists" which definition are you using?

Also, do you believe that anyone who believes that Genesis Chapter 1 could not possibly be referring in any sense to the big bang or evolution is a literalist according to your definition?

[Major Nikon]

71. The one he pulled out of his arse

The idea that any atheist believes in any interpretation of the bible is nutty beyond belief.

It was never anything more than strawman gibberish to begin with. Gil has just repeated it enough times he managed to convince himself and probably doesn't even remember why he even came up with it.

[Lordquinton]

72. So basically it's a gaslighting term that means whatever you want it to

Once again reafirming my conclusion that you are actively posting in bad faith.

[edhopper]

67. I don't assume that

As I have stated before, literalism is not bianary. People can be literal about all or part of the Bible.
There are old Earth Creationist, they are also literalist.
People who reject the Genesis story as literaly true, but then accept the Flood story or the Exodus story as accurate are also literalists.

[Lordquinton]

37. Can't even keep it together even within a single post

Are you talking about all americans, or christians? The two are NOT interchangeable.

Both your surveys talk about a general population, not specific to the christian part, which is what the whole topic is about. The part about the UK is a strawman, as the discussion was about US christians.

This would be shredded in a debate class, since that's what your new meme seems to be about.

[Major Nikon]

40. Half of US Christians believe the world is less than 10,000 yrs old

And Gil can't understand why anyone takes issue with people taking the bible literally.

Meanwhile pretty much constantly some group of morans thinks it's a good idea to teach that particular brand of ignorance in public schools and our tax dollars have to pay for both defending and challenging that nonsense.

One thing Gil did manage to reveal is that this is not a problem in Europe at all because they have a much smaller population of rock hard ignorant Christians.

[Lordquinton]

42. If it weren't for that group pushing it into the public arena

We wouldn't be having any of these discussions.

His new meme of grading people as if it were a debate class is great, I'd love for it to be conducted in some formal form like that, he'd get a nasty surprise when he makes claims and backs them up with false evidence.

[Major Nikon]

46. He also gives grades in math without being able to divide something in half

But yeah, the whole online debate class thing is more than a bit banal. With no moderator to call bullshit on an infinite number of formal fallacies and flat out lies, this ain't anything remotely close to debate class.

[edhopper]

41. FALSE NARRATIVE!

It isn't take the whole Bible literally or not a literalist at all.
Most believers take some part of the Bible literally.
Believing in the story of Jesus' death and resurrection as it is described in the Bible makes one a literalist.

[MineralMan]

44. So about half of all Christians are creationists?

Christianity is the most adhered to religion in the United States, with 75% of polled American adults identifying themselves as Christian in 2015. This is down from 85% in 1990, lower than 81.6% in 2001, and slightly lower than 78% in 2012. About 62% of those polled claim to be members of a church congregation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States

While 38% of Americans accept creationism, that is about half of Americans who claim to be Christian. So, half of American Christians believe in young earth creationism.

That sounds kinda different from the claim you're trying to make. Half, guillaumeb, of Christians.

[Major Nikon]

47. No, not half of all Christians!

In typical Gil fashion he came up with a different source that was talking about something different and even if it weren't meant it contradicted his first source. Someone got to stay after school for a lecture from his debate school teacher.

[MineralMan]

48. So confusing...

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. Predictably, this was a train wreck from the get-go.

The data presented—how many Americans accept evolution—does not address the topic of the op, which is how many Americans take the Bible literally. Evolution only concerns itself with one part of the Bible. Joe Bob Christian might believe in evolution, but that doesn't mean he doesn't take literally any of the other demonstrably false shit the Bible has on offer.

[MineralMan]

55. Well, there's a train leaving the station daily, headed

for a similar wreck, it seems.

[tonedevil]

45. The Bible is metaphorical?

Can't we just say fictional and call it a day?

[MineralMan]

49. Capital Idea!

[Major Nikon]

50. Not without making the baby Jesus cry

It's more accurate to say the bible is a work of plagiarism from earlier fictions.

[Bretton Garcia]

58. All great ideas!

[Eyeball_Kid]

51. Has anyone said this yet?

The 38% number is the same number as Trumpy's approval rating.

Ooo... Could it be? Are we connecting dots???

Just playing.

[c-rational]

52. Too many, and one would be too many.

[Act_of_Reparation]

53. It's 2019.

Maybe you should consider that when bragging about just a little more than half US adults vaguely accepting "in some form" what has been scientific consensus for 160 years.

I'm not impressed.

[Major Nikon]

56. Obviously you are a glass half empty kind of person

In another 160 years we should be up there with the UK.

[Act_of_Reparation]

57. Change doesn't happen overnight, amirite?