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[Soph0571]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Soph0571) on Mon Oct 5, 2020, 01:48 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Cartoonist]

1. Some people think metaphors are important

They have no respect for reality.

[Kath2]

2. Let's teach science and fact.

Not fairy tales.

[HopeAgain]

3. I believe so

I took a course on Mythology and totally enjoyed it.

[Major Nikon]

10. I'm pretty sure there's some religionists who would lose their shit if the bible were taught as myth

Even though that's exactly what it is.

[DetlefK]

4. There are hundreds of contradicting versions of "creationism".

Which one should be taught?

[shraby]

5. No. That belongs in churches if they want. Not in schools.

[democratisphere]

6. Do YOU want your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren

taught fake history? Didn't think so!

[MineralMan]

7. Here's how it should be taught by science teachers:

"Some people believe that everything was created by a deity just as it is today. That idea is called creationism. There is no physical evidence to support that idea. This is a science class. We will be studying actual evidence that supports scientific conclusions. You can learn about creationism at your church. In this class, you will learn about science."

[MarvinGardens]

16. +1

[The Genealogist]

8. It is about social control

A certain segment of the American Christian population wants to gain social control, and indoctrinating children into the Christian faith is one of their means of doing so. With a growing number of "nones" in this country, watch for them to step up their game.

[NeoGreen]

9. Only as a...

...historical cultural artifact, a prime example of a non-scientific idea, a case study as to why the separation of church and state is paramount and Exhibit A as to why the US has fallen from leading in science to lagging in scientific aptitude.

[Igel]

15. The Pew Science survey was released a couple of weeks ago.

It's worth looking at.

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2019/03/28/what-americans-know-about-science/

We're also ahead of many countries and on par with most others, other surveys have shown over the last 5 years. When we're not "on par" it's usually just one or two questions of little actual importance that stand out.


As for lagging, there are reasons for a lot of what we're seeing.

#1 is that as more countries develop, we're not one of just a few countries putting out a lot of articles. Take China, with 1/7 of the world's population. All things being equal, you expect them to put out 1/7 of the world's research. We have 1/20 of the world's population; no matter how you cut it, we can't keep up putting out 40% of the world's research.

#2 is that our overall time-frame's changed as a culture. We want things now and we don't see a point in what's not going to get us something. Meaning that if you're doing research you're less focused on what will give results in 15 years and more focused on results in 15 months; moreover, you're less focused on finding "gee, isn't that interesting ... but useless" and more interested in, "gee, I could find a use for that" research. It's facile to say that this is because much of research is short-sighted corporate and private, but private corporations funded some pretty basic research for a long time, and a lot of government research is similarly short-sighted. Even a lot of faculty/post-doc research is more here-and-now than long-term in thinking. Basic research requires immediate-reward denial and a willingness to postpone present comfort, meaning trust in the future; we've lost that, largely. A lot of basic research is happening in China; that'll have a big "bite us in the ass" result when they have some crucial patents. Like those using sodium instead of lithium in batteries.

#3 is simple espionage. We may have an edge in a field; we hire motivated, well-educated post-docs to train them in the field and get cheap work out of them; they get jobs in their field and set up their own labs based on what they were doing 3 months ago just to learn that their jobs are in China. Part of having international students as to get the best and brightest here. But for many, it was to train the best and brightest to reduce US hegemony and uplift other countries because, well, #1 was the *goal.* And many countries pay their students' way in the US for the explicit goal of training them and having them return with skills that can easily be turned into challenging US hegemony. But in more than a few cases, though, the post-docs turn out to have copied a lot of confidential information when they still had access to their PI's computer networks--we hear about that when it's at someplace like White Sands, where secure systems are open-system adjacent, but it happens at Berkeley and CalTech, too. Consider that recently there was a suggestion that we check post-docs for conflicts of interest and possible intent to commit espionage. Outrage came from two quarters. The first was PIs who needed the best and brightest for cheap labor and good ideas. And the second was from those who want to spread information and increase general worldwide scientific competence.

[NeoGreen]

19. Post secondary science may be doing well enough...

...but in overall science, and especially evolution (i.e. the antithesis of creationism) we lag:


https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/the-us-ranks-33rd-in-acceptance-of-evolution/

The U.S. ranks 33rd in acceptance of evolution

According to a 2006 study first published in the magazine, Science, the United States ranks thirty-third out of thirty four nations (32 in Europe plus Japan and the United States) in acceptance of evolution. Iceland ranks first. Only Turkey ranked lower than the United States in the acceptance of evolution.

And I directly attribute this lag to religious derived and foisted 'bad ideas':





https://www.pewforum.org/2013/12/30/publics-views-on-human-evolution/


However, there is recent reason for hope, which is unsurprisingly coincident with a rise in the "nones/unaffiliated":
https://slate.com/technology/2015/11/polls-americans-believe-in-evolution-less-in-creationism.html

Evolution Is Finally Winning Out Over Creationism
A majority of young people endorse the scientific explanation of how humans evolved.
Rachel E. Gross, Nov 19, 2015

Few issues have divided the American public as bitterly as Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection. Since On the Origin of Species was published in 1859, it has driven a wedge between those who accept that humans and this planet’s other inhabitants have evolved over time, and those who believe that our species was created in its current form with no alterations. While the majority of people in Europe and in many other parts of the world accept evolution, the United States lags behind. Today, 4 in 10 adults in America believe that humans have existed in our present form since the beginning of time, and in many religious groups, that number is even higher. This is woeful.

Now, at long last, there seems to be hope: National polls show that creationism is beginning to falter, and Americans are finally starting to move in favor of evolution. After decades of legal battles, resistance to science education, and a deeply rooted cultural divide, evolution may be poised to win out once and for all.

Plus, to suggest creationism is Science is laughable.

[MineralMan]

20. That is a very sad commentary on education in the United States.

Shameful, really.

[TreasonousBastard]

11. No. Just no.

[uriel1972]

12. In a comparative religion class...

against other creation myths, sure. In a science setting, never.

[marble falls]

13. As a believer I just got to say, "No."

[SeattleVet]

14. Only if they include Darwinian Evolution in their religion books!

They want 'equal time', we can give it to them...

[MarvinGardens]

17. Not in public schools.

Only in religious scools, if the administrators want. I'd say it could be taught in public schools as mythology, but for practical purposes, I would not touch that with a ten foot pole.

[keithbvadu2]

18. Amazing that so many Christians want the gov't to teach religion in school rather than let the paren

Amazing that so many Christians want the gov't to teach religion in school rather than let the parents decide how to raise their children.