Some US Christians' Definition of Religious Freedom:

[MineralMan]

Not everyone thinks that religious freedom means the freedom to worship or not worship whatever religion you prefer. In the United States, there are many Christians who believe that religious freedom means that they should be free to discriminate against anyone, based on their own religious beliefs.

They want to be free to refuse to rent living spaces to anyone who believes differently than they do.
They want to be free not to do business with anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.
They want to be free to exclude people from parts of society if they follow a different religion or are atheists.
They want to be free to stop people who don't behave or live as they think proper from marrying or doing almost anything at all.
They want to be free to prevent people from doing anything that is proscribed by their religion, like using contraception or obtaining an abortion.
They want to be free to block groups who worship differently from being able to build houses of worship in their communities.
They want to be free to make criticizing their religion or mocking it a crime.

Their idea of religious freedom is for their religion to be free, but not yours. If you object to their freedom to discriminate against you, then they will say you are against religious freedom and must be stopped.

That's how many US Christians see religious freedom. In some states, they have even passed laws to that effect.

[Major Nikon]

1. Don't forget you aren't free to criticize religion

...but religion gets to promote itself whenever and wherever it wants.

[MineralMan]

2. I was adding that as you wrote your reply.

It's in there now.

[Major Nikon]

8. Ironically there are those who fail to see the contradiction

Doublethink is the act of simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts.[1] Doublethink is related to, but differs from, hypocrisy and neutrality. Also related is cognitive dissonance, in which contradictory beliefs cause conflict in one's mind. Doublethink is notable due to a lack of cognitive dissonance—thus the person is completely unaware of any conflict or contradiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

[MineralMan]

9. That's why we see bills with titles like "Religious Freedom Act,"

that have nothing whatsoever to do with real religious freedom. In fact, when I see a bill with that kind of title, I know it's going to be a Religious Freedom for Me but Not for You Act. Happens all the time.

[unblock]

3. they want to be free to deny religious freedom to others.

[MineralMan]

4. That's the bottom line, isn't it?

[DBoon]

5. They want to be free to proselytize in the workplace

And to require participation in their religion by their employees

[MineralMan]

6. Yes, and in the public schools, too.

[Thunderbeast]

7. The conversation has gotten so bad...

If I am looking for goods and services, I often see small businesses use the fish symbol to advertise their Christian beliefs on signs, web sites, or business cards. I suppose the fish is less blatant than a cross or crucifix.

While these folks think that the fish is telling me that they are an honest merchant with devine integrity, the message I now see is much different.

If you put a Christian symbol on your brand, what I see is an arrogant attempt monetize faith. As a non-believer, I feel unwelcome. My instinct tells me to take my business elsewhere.

[MineralMan]

10. Oh, yes. I go elsewhere when I see such symbols on businesses.

Some of my worst consumer experiences have been with "Christian" businesses.

[The Genealogist]

11. This makes it easy to to go elsewhere

There is a local plumbing company that uses the fish, as well as three crosses on their signage. This place has been around for decades. Wouldn't even think of using their services. Of course, they probably don't want my business as a gay atheist anyway.

[Major Nikon]

14. No, that means when they are done cheating you, you must forgive them

[MineralMan]

15. Only if you're a Christian, too.

For example, I took my car into an auto repair place that had a fish in its window. It wouldn't start sometimes. So, I went back to pick it up and they billed me for a new starter. OK. I paid the bill. When I got home, I looked at the car, which I should have done while I was there. The old starter, still oily and dirty, was right there, still on the engine. They had, however, cleaned the cable end and post on the starter. I could see that, since both were clean as a whistle. They didn't replace the starter, but charged me for a new one.

So, I went back and pointed out the oily, dirty starter to the shop owner. "Is that what the new starters you buy at the parts house look like?" "Well, er, uh..." After a brief argument and a reference by me to the state organization that deals with auto repair facilities, I got a refund. for the cost of the new starter, minus the cost of cleaning the cable.

Nice Christian guy, that owner.

[Voltaire2]

16. cultural evolutionary theories about religion generally hold that religious signalling

was a primary advantage that helped establish "angry god" religions all over the world. Before there were modern nation states to regulate social norms, and in particular to regulate commerce, religious signalling provided the basis for trust relations between strangers, even distant strangers. It allowed for commerce across vast distances, with trust relationships initiated first by religious affiliation, (and enforced by an angry god). Religious signalling for trust relations is still used in parts of the world where government is too corrupt/weak/nonexistent.

Its use now in functioning secular societies is primarily to divide people.

[trotsky]

12. Yeah but whatabout China?!?!?

[MineralMan]

13. What indeed?

People who practice Christianity and pray in their closets, as Jesus reportedly advised, will probably have no issues in China, I'd think. Beyond that, China allows freedom not to worship all religions equally, I believe. It's not big on any sort of opposition to Chinese policies, though, regardless of the beliefs that underlie that opposition.

I've never been to China, though, so I haven't seen any of that at first hand. I work with a man who fled China after the Tienanmen Square massacre. He is an atheist, but no longer felt safe there, on political grounds. His parents still live in Beijing, though, so he travels there about once a year. He's now a naturalized US Citizen.

[ROB-ROX]

17. Over 200 years and Protestants still HATE people

I think the damn Protestants hate EVERYONE. I think SATAN is their leader because these people love to HATE. These same people are the HERD of the GOP where EVIL and HATE thrives. I am so glad my parents were NOT Protestants...I think it will take EVOLUTION for these people to lose their HATE and EVIL genetics........

[Mariana]

18. Why single out the Protestants?

The majority of Catholic votes in 2016 went to Trump. Was that due to something other than hatred? And Protestants don't have "evil genetics", either. Most of them are indoctrinated in early childhood, using the exact same methods most other religions use.

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Because myths don't perpetuate themselves!

The original, pure Christianity exists somewhere out there in the Realm of Ideal Forms. It was exiled there by the small minority of Southern white male "fake" Christians who perverted this progenitor religion of rainbows, lollipops, and kumbayas into the hateful, anachronistic screed we all know today.

It's a myth we tell ourselves because we're afraid that if we tell the truth, the minority of Christians who vote with us will forget their liberal sensibilities and run straight into the (un)welcoming arms of the GOP.

[trotsky]

21. "An atheist on the Internet posted an unfavorable opinion about a religious topic!"

"I shall now abandon my commitment to equal rights, economic justice, reproductive freedom, and progressivism! FreeRepublic here I come! #MAGA"

Multiple people have tried to invoke the existence of a person like that in order to silence atheist opinions on DU. Do they think everyone is stupid?

[Act_of_Reparation]

22. With allies like that...

...who needs Republicans?

[uriel1972]

19. Nooo they are the image of their Wrathful God...

Satan is a minor league player in the evil stakes if you read the bible.

[Pendrench]

23. Speaking only for myself, I appreciate the opportunity

to encounter and be exposed to beliefs and/or the non-beliefs that are different from mine whether they be Jewish, Coptic, Atheist, Muslim, Pagans, Sikhs, etc.

I think it's important to experience and explore our differences so we can learn more about each other and what each of us hold dear, and to celebrate areas of commonality. I would also hope that my faith isn't so weak that I would be afraid to engage with someone who holds different and/or opposing views...rather, I would hope my faith would encourage me to reach out.

Anyway, just my thoughts on this.

Thank you for posting - wishing you well and peace!

Tim

[MineralMan]

24. That is the rational approach to learning about belief systems.

I'm glad to hear that's your approach.