Bishop Named by Pope to Investigate Abuse is Accused Himself

[Act_of_Reparation]

New York Times

Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, the longtime leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn, sexually abused an 11-year-old altar boy during his tenure as a young priest in Jersey City in the 1970s, according to a lawyer who helped unleash Boston’s priest abuse scandal.

...

Last month, Pope Francis chose Bishop DiMarzio to investigate the Buffalo, N.Y., diocese, where Bishop Richard J. Malone has come under criticism for his handling of a mushrooming clergy abuse scandal.

I mean. Wow.

[empedocles]

1. Like the accused barr investigating abuse of any kind

[MineralMan]

2. The depth and breadth of this scandal is remarkable.

Foxes in the hen house, at the very least. Turn the entire investigation over to the law enforcement community.

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. It's incredible.

Under normal circumstances, what are the odds a single, random individual is a child abuser?

This is either a stunning fluke of probability, or the Church has a serious fucking problem.

[MineralMan]

5. Clearly, it is the second thing.

The problem is so widespread and universal that it is obviously an organizational norm. It cannot be fixed from inside the organization, in that case. That's my assessment, after all these years and all those abused children. Bring in the prosecutors and give them total access. They'll flush it all out.

Either that or shut the entire thing down.

[trotsky]

8. "It cannot be fixed from inside the organization"

That is precisely true, but also why the RCC will never try anything else. They have always viewed themselves as apart from and above ANY secular authority. That belief is a fundamental part of the RCC DNA. So no, it will never get fixed.

[MineralMan]

11. In many ways, the RCC is organized perfectly for

sexual abuse by its clergy. The secrecy, the single gender makeup of the clergy, the excessive power held by priests, and the secondary, subservient role of women in the organization set up a perfect storm for sexual abuse of children. It's almost as though someone created the organizational structure for just such a purpose.

[Major Nikon]

6. Then again, maybe they are taking the Sgt. Stedenko approach

Who better to catch child rapists than a child rapist?

Or it could be they just absolutely don't give a fuck. And why would they considering they have so many child rape apologists working overtime to convince the rank in file and the public this is simply a matter of demonic infiltration and is in no way inherent to organized religion.

[Dorian Gray]

46. Yes... The church needs to give any and all information

they have to outside law enforcement officials. Because any self-investigation looks like self-preservation. It's terrible.

I don't fully trust law enforcement to dole out justice for forty year old crimes, but at least they're independent and not self-serving.

[trotsky]

3. But can we really be surprised anymore?

Rotten to the core.

[Voltaire2]

7. I'm shocked.

[guillaumeb]

9. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Who will watch the watchers?

No matter the institutional setting, any abuse is horrible. And covering up the abuse is equally horrible.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. You and David Brooks should go bowling.

[guillaumeb]

14. Does he cheat when scoring? eom

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. Only if both sides can do it.

[MineralMan]

12. One can be a watcher and/or the watched. In many cases

both are true. Some like to watch, besides.

And it's all doing the work of God, see, so there you are...

[guillaumeb]

13. And pedohpiles, being predators, tend to go where the prey exists.

Institutional cover ups are an integral part of the problem of predators existing in institutional settings.

[MineralMan]

15. Yes, and...?

The RCC protects its own, even its predators. In so doing, it makes itself a hypocritical liar. All in the name of Jesus.

You do yours. I'll do mine and have none of yours, thanks.

[guillaumeb]

17. Institutions protect their own.

It is human behavior, and sadly, not unique to any one class of humans.

[MineralMan]

18. And corrupt institutions protect corruption.

I did not say it was unique in any way. I did say that it is corrupt, however, and have said that many times.

It should be disbanded forthwith.

[guillaumeb]

19. All such corrupt institutions?

Including the family, the place where much abuse occurs?

And the school system as well?

And the military?

[MineralMan]

21. Bye, now...

[guillaumeb]

22. Always best to leave when you cannot answer.

I understand that these questions weaken your narrative, but they are obvious questions to ask.

[MineralMan]

23. Nope. I leave when the logic of the argument is absent.

Once that happens, there is no possibility of discussion.

[guillaumeb]

24. Then in that spirit, delete your reply #18.

That is where the illogic started.

[Mariana]

28. What about, what about, what about!!! nt.

[guillaumeb]

31. Are you denying that child abuse exists there?

And that the same cover ups exist?

[edhopper]

35. And being an institution tha exists solely

to be in the service of God makes them no different than any criminal enterprise.
So appearantly, belief and living for God does not make anyone any better than a nonbeliever.
Why all this obsession with faith and sin and prayer when people involved are no better than those not?

[guillaumeb]

37. All humans are fallible. Even me.

I do not expect anything different, but I do expect, or hope, that anyone with knowledge of a child abuser would report that knowledge to the authorities.

But people conceal things. Family members conceal abuse, institutional members do so as well.

As to the "criminal enterprise" rhetoric, the purpose of the RCC is not to abuse children, or to commit crimes, so your analogy fails.

[edhopper]

38. I didn't say it was

The purpose of the GOP is not to enable treason, but that is what they do.
The commitment to God has not made them better thasn any other group.
So in a blind study, belief in God is ineffective in making a group or person better.
God has no positive effect.

[trotsky]

25. And yet the RCC situation is unique.

Both in its extent (worldwide) and its lack of secular oversight.

But I understand why you would rather whatabout.

[guillaumeb]

26. It is not uniquely a safe haven for pedophiles.

But I understand your need to promote your narrative.

Much abuse occurs in the family, which exists worldwide and has no effective secular oversight.

Child abuse is everywhere. The family, schools, scouting organizations, the military, and anywhere there are children and pedophiles.

[Mariana]

29. What about, what about, what about, what about, what about !!! nt.

[Voltaire2]

30. Well that is an astoundingly dim argument.

Much abuse occurs in the family, which exists worldwide and has no effective secular oversight.

Let’s start with families not having effective secular oversight. There most certainly is oversight of families, in particular with respect to sexual and physical child abuse, in just about every developed nation. In most countries an allegation of child abuse will be taken very seriously by the relevant secular authorities and acted on quickly. If the preliminary investigation indicates that the allegation has a basis in fact, steps are taken to protect the children and a criminal investigation is conducted.

What secular authorities don’t do is appoint one of the parents to investigate the other.

[guillaumeb]

32. If the oversight were effective,

the problem would not be so wide spread.

[Voltaire2]

33. As I said, astoundingly dim.

[guillaumeb]

34. Astoundingly dim is avoiding the obvious.

Child abuse is everywhere. The religion of the abusers, or lack thereof, is of no consequence to the abused child.

[Act_of_Reparation]

39. You do realize no one is saying abuse is unique to the RCC.

What is more or less unique to the RCC is the systemic nature of said abuse.

[trotsky]

41. "The religion of the abusers... is of no consequence to the abused child."

It is when the religion promotes the notion that the priest class is above secular law.

But you never want to acknowledge that. I wonder why?

[edhopper]

36. mind boggling.

[trotsky]

42. But is it really?

Look at Trump defenders - they do the same thing. If confronted with his illegal behavior, they'll scream "But Obama! But Hillary! Benghazi! BUTTERY MALES!!!!!"

They can't defend Trump's unique and excessive corruption, so they flail wildly as if any kind of corruption, real or imagined, done by other politicians makes Trump's crimes no big deal. "Everybody does it."

[edhopper]

43. Yep

As I posted above, I have seen the GOP/RCC parrallel.

[trotsky]

40. It is unique in its size and philosophy, which enables and protects the abusers.

I understand why you do not want to talk about those issues, and would rather try to lump it under "everybody abuses."

[guillaumeb]

44. A philosophy of child abuse?

Or the concept of the secrecy of the confessional?

[trotsky]

48. Don't be disingenuous.

I've explained exactly why the RCC's abuse problem is unique, multiple times.

You've never, ever addressed ANY of my arguments, but instead just play this game over and over.

Let me know when you really want to discuss the issue.

[guillaumeb]

51. Every institution is unique.

So there is that.

Are you truly surprised that humans behave in this way no matter where they exist?

If so, why?

[trotsky]

54. Quit trying to change the subject.

The teachings and practices of your (former?) church help enable child abusers. By setting up the church hierarchy to be "above" secular law, they make the problem WORSE. Do you agree or disagree? I bet you won't answer. You'll just whatabout some more.

[guillaumeb]

56. It is you who prefer to severly limit the discussion so you can "prove"

a conclusion. Hardly an example of using the scientific method.

And this insistence on restricting the dialogue is present in your latest example of posing a question that is actually a statement of your own opinion.

[trotsky]

57. "Severly (sic) limit the discussion"?

You mean wanting to discuss the particular aspects of Religion in the Religion group?

Guilty as charged.

No, guillaumeb, it's YOU who wants to limit the discussion here. Fortunately you are terrible at it, and only end up making yourself look like a religious hypocrite.

[Dorian Gray]

47. Sigh...

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and a believer, so I'm going to say this with as much respect as I can muster.

We all know that abuse happens world wide.

The RCC is a holy institution and purports that it is directly descended from the apostles of Jesus.

Yet, we've historically enablied those abusers to continue their abuse. It is SHOCKING and infuriating.

We deserve all the intense heat we have gotten for it, and it's time to demand that we clean out our house.

When our community is seriously challenged by it's own history of culpability in child abuse, talking about other people doing it too doesn't help anybody.

I love my chuch. I love my community. I love Jesus. I love God. I love so much about my faith.

I hate that it's been corrupted by pedophiles, and I hate that the public is RIGHTFULLY enraged by it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. Exactly.

[guillaumeb]

50. While I agree with your comments,

suggesting that the RCC is uniquely culpable is illogical.

[Dorian Gray]

52. I never said uniquely culpable. But when in discussion with the abuse

it is "whataboutism" to talk about how the rest of society does it, too.

That doesn't mitigate our responsibility to our church, our flock, and making reparations for what was done, ignored, enabled, and covered up.

The biggest threat do the RCC doesn't come from OUTSIDE the church. Most damage inflicted was from within.

I think it's really really important for us to remember and to have humility about it.

[guillaumeb]

53. The reference was not to your own comments.

And it is not diversion to note that abuse and cover-ups are a constant. Diversion would be to note these things in an attempt to excuse them.

[trotsky]

55. Thank you for calling out his whataboutism attempts. n/t

[Nitram]

20. Business as usual at the Vatican.

[NeoGreen]

27. Wow. It seems as if Sky Daddy can't keep his people or 'instrument' on Earth...

...from harming children and/or covering up the crime(s).

Maybe this is all caused by a reliance on 'faith'.

[Dorian Gray]

45. I live in BK

DiMarzio has always been beaurocratic. He doesn't have the personality of Cardinal Dolan. He's NYC's second banana bishop

Having said that, I was surprised at Mass yesterday. I expected our priest to ignore the accusation. But at the end of Mass he read a letter written by DiMarzio. DiMarzio asked that it be read during every single mass that weekend. It, of course, denied the accusations, but I was somewhat surprised that he was meeting the accusation head on.

So, there is that.

Hopefully there will be a real investigation and the truth will come to light. Only through the light of truth can the darkness be chased away. If the accuser was victimized by the Bishop, I hope he receives real restitution.