I've been thinking deeply lately about my spiritual beliefs / cosmology

[Coventina]

I've been drawn to Wicca/Goddess-worship/Paganism/Witchcraft as long as I can remember, despite being raised by Christian fundamentalists.

But, I've never been quite 100% comfortable with it, and have also felt very drawn by the atheistic beliefs of Buddhism as well.

I think, because I was raised by Christian fundamentalists, I was given a blueprint of a cosmos that is ruled by a supreme deity that is all-knowing and all-powerful. I was trying to fit a Great Goddess into the mold of the God of Abraham.

But, my skepticism in the face of obvious flaws in making that switch persisted. How could an all-powerful God or Goddess, who is also presumed to be Good, allow evil to go unpunished? (Amongst other things).

Then, suddenly, I had a breakthrough that felt so obvious, I'm almost embarrassed.

So, I'm stating it here, as my personal belief, take it for what it's worth: I do believe in multiple higher spiritual powers of various kinds. Call them gods, goddesses, angels, fairies, daemons, kami, what have you. I firmly believe the Earth is a Goddess, and is sentient.

But they are NOT all-powerful or all-knowing. They are powerful, and wise, and old (but not eternal). They can be killed (we are actively killing our Mother Earth right now, for example).

Together, we all co-create the universe. Some people are bad, and the good must resist them, but it's an ongoing struggle that will
always exist. There is no CREATOR in the sense of the Abrahamic God, or if there is, it is indifferent to concepts of good and evil. It just IS.

I could go on, but that's the gist of it. Like I said, when it came to me, I felt kind of like the answer had been staring me in the face for decades, but I had been unable to see it for some reason.

Oh well.

Blessed be, all!

Coventina

[Frasier Balzov]

1. How is evil created and disposed of in your opinion?

A popular version of evil's creation is that an angel went bad and was sent to a place set aside especially for him.

He uses his power to bring other souls to him down there, where everyone is eternally punished with extremes of discomfort.

[SpamWyzer]

4. Perhaps

"evil" arises from choices. If any given situation can be viewed from any point of view, then any number of choices are possible. Evil may consist of such choices enacted in the world. The varied interests clash at the level of choice, of volition. I tend to believe that our dynamic internal psychological imperatives and concepts give rise to evil as a consequence of the differences between parties. I am NOT saying that evil can be ignored or "kicked down the road" philosophically, rather, that only individuals can be expected to prevent it by choosing with the interests of others who are involved. Conflicts are fueled by the denial of interests of one party by the other.
Morally, we are corrupt if we choose to hurt and destroy others and then "justify" it by showcasing our interests as premium. In the actual world of politics, actions are dedicated to negating the influence of the other, by any means possible. As Clausewitz pointed out, "War is politics by other means." Evil is a human choice. It is grounded in our need for security while denying the same for the other. If one accepts responsibility for one's own thoughts, then evil has less chance of arising in relation to others. I wish us all some peace.

[anciano]

5. That "popular version" is anthropomorphic in nature and based on Biblical mythology....

IMO evil is neither "created" nor "disposed of". Just like good, evil simply "is", as the OP and reply #2 have suggested. For whatever reason, the experience of human existence occurs in a dualistic reality. So good and evil simply "are", just like hot and cold, light and dark, young and old, etc.

[Coventina]

9. Here is my personal opinion on the matter (I don't know if it aligns with any faith or creed)

I believe that "evil" arises out of selfishness.

The way I see it, good people (gods, goddesses, kami, spirits, etc.) balance the need to survive and thrive against the need of others to survive and thrive.

All human babies are born with no empathy, their focus is entirely on getting their needs met. However, it is part of natural development to become empathetic, to understand that others have needs, others have feelings, and your choices affect them.

In my view, evil arises from people and powers who choose to ignore the needs of others and even enjoy inflicting pain on others.

There is no "disposal" in the sense that I do not believe in a Last Judgment or Heaven or Hell that I was brought up with.

I do believe that there are death gods and goddesses who mete out a certain level of punishment for misdeeds, but nothing like eternal damnation or anything like that.

I firmly believe that hopelessly warped souls (Hitler is everyone's favorite example) do end up in a hellish existence that they create for themselves. I believe Trump is also heading the same way.

Did I answer your questions? If I did not please identify anything I misunderstood or left out.
Thanks!

[slightlv]

2. Like you, I was raised in a "churchy"

environment. Grandmother, various uncles, etc., were preachers of the evangelical type. Very committed. I was so committed, I looked into going to school and becoming a preacher and was laughed out of the building (basically) because I was female. That was the last straw for me. A few years of personal seeking led me eventually to Paganism, Goddess-centered. In fact, I started out as Dianic and it felt quite right for a number of years. But a move and offering open classes showed me not all men were bad (gryn), and I actually learned a lot from them. So, I became a bit more relaxed and eclectic. And I've led a group of like-minded Solitaires for over 20 years now.

Like you, I came away in my beginnings of life with that "blueprint of the cosmos." I didn't exactly retain it, tho. During my time as a Seeker, I came to see that Supreme Deity as more an overarching energy force, which we renew upon deaths. Like you, I do see us as co-creators of the world. I think that's probably playing more with semantics than anything else, tho. It's just I don't picture it as male or female. It's amorphous to me. In that, I can fill it with whatever I need it to be... to me... at the time I need it; knowing that it's simply my limited mind that's doing it.

What I'm trying to come to grips with... which you seem to have already achieved... is that this amorphous energy isn't good or evil; it just "is"... and doesn't care two whits about anything. I'd already tried wrapping my head around this thought a little while back, and pushed it off to the side for a future meditation because the thought and its repercussions rattles me.

If you couldn't tell, I'm in the beginning stages of another "dark night of soul." Your message was quite timely, in that respect!

[Coventina]

10. Merry meet!

Our stories are very parallel!

One of the main reasons why I broke with my childhood faith was the obvious misogyny of the Bible and the Church's teachings.

So, when I decided in college that I was going to leave that behind, I really focused on Goddess worship and I was pretty antagonistic toward masculine expressions of spirituality, including Paganism and Witchcraft.
I remained that way for a really long time.

But, when I found my husband, who was willing to accept my path and even do rituals with me, I started to re-balance.

I still tend to favor goddesses, but it's more out of the fact that I am female.

Unlike you, I have never been a spiritual leader of any kind. I don't feel that's my calling. I really admire the heck out of people like you, though.

I hope my little screed hasn't caused you a "dark night of the soul." I've had many, and they are not fun.

Take care of yourself!

[slightlv]

11. No... it wasn't you that kicked off the dark night of soul...

we all have to go through them from time to time. I think seeing 68 coming quickly on me is what did the trick... that, and of all things, seeing how grown my grandsons are.

My move from San Antonio to KS some decades ago really brought about a sea-change in my attitude and helped me accept men in circles; as well as to help them get in touch with their Goddess side. Like you, I'm Goddess-oriented, but I also exude a lot of what we think of as typical male energy. So much so that my HP and I would switch roles at times when leading group. He had such nurturing, wonderful female energies and I had no trouble calling down the male energies. The first time we switched, it was an experiment. It went so well, we did it again and again. The group loved the energies they felt inside the circle. And my HP and I both felt we'd successfully represented the correct balance. It's not something I've seen done elsewhere, but this guy was really very special, and into energy work as much as I was. He crossed the Veil this year. The loss is dearly felt among us.

Bright Blessings!

[anciano]

3. A very thought provoking OP ....

I also had a childhood influenced by fundamentalism, but later transitioned to a mainstream version of Christianity and then later still to a period of time as a solitary Wiccan.
But those experiences were all "religious" oriented and never quite fit just right. I didn't believe there could be an anthropomorphic deity as in a big guy in the sky or even a pantheon of deities, but I did believe that there had to be some sort of eternal essence or meaning to all of this.
Reading the works of Thomas Paine and then later the writings of Marcus Aurelius finally led me to an awareness of the universal oneness concept, that we are to the universe like waves are to the ocean, that our lives just like ocean waves are temporary abnormalities, and that when we die we simply return to normal only to become part of a new wave. In other words, we are continually and eternally being recycled.
Two of my favorite quotes are from the writings of Marcus Aurelius: "Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul" and "I am composed of the formal and the material. Neither of them will perish into non-existence, as neither of them came into existence out of non-existence. Every part of me then will be reduced by change into some part of the universe, and that again will change into another part of the universe, and so on forever."

[Karadeniz]

6. You are very close to basic Gnosticism. I ignore their highly imaginative creation hypotheses, but

they didn't demand doctrinal subservience. In my teenage Other Side
experience, there were just a few things that seemed a part of a god system. One was that the Source never left its world. Souls had to go there. Souls somehow came from the Source, so they have the potential to literally merge with the Source and experience eternal ecstasy. The soul is how the divine nature is carried beyond the world of the Source....but it must regain the strength of its divine nature which was diminished in its journey from home. This is accomplished through karma and reincarnation.

[usonian]

7. The answer was staring you in the face when you held up a mirror and found "it" within yourself.

II was intrigued that you mentioned Buddhism. After a long search, I found the Lotus Sutra in Nichiren's presentation, and it answers all my questions.

The universe is infinite. It is a process, and we are part of that process, not separate in any way.

Buddhism distinguishes good and evil by actions and results. People are not good or evil, as western religion likes to stamp them. People are capable of doing good and evil, and also of having life states from hellish to supreme enlightenment, and evolving to the highest condition with no limitation. (except aspiration and effort)

I found that concepts of Buddhism and modern physics align, namely constructed self (psychology, actually), mutual causality, mutual containment, and so on.

"Indra's Net" makes some analogies, and here is a short presentation.
http://www.heartspace.org/misc/IndraNet.html

It took me a very long time to find this, and I am grateful that I did.
In fact, bookstores led me down many blind alleys, until I went to the used bookstore and found what I was looking for.
I don't want others to wander so very long, so I'm looking for or writing a short introduction (longer than the above)


🪷

[Dear_Prudence]

8. Puzzling

Some of us are provided a religious education that is like the picture on the front of a puzzle box; we are expected to assemble the puzzle pieces of lives (our thoughts, feelings, experiences, knowledge) to make the picture featured on the box. (Bless the folks who can pull that off.) But, for some of us, the puzzle pieces just won't fit together to make that picture or even resemble that picture. Some of us assemble the puzzle pieces into some other picture or vision that seems a better fit. Some, like me, just keep shuffling the puzzle pieces around, creating a kind of kaleidoscope, sometimes dazzlingly beautiful, sometimes dizzyingly fractured. I have been on the dizzy side lately, so I really appreciate your sharing your coherent thoughts and experiences. I found it very helpful. Thank you.

[slightlv]

12. I like your use of the puzzle box as an allusion to life!

I always felt I was missing a few pieces. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get to the idyllic completed picture. But... Ad Astra, per Aspera. To the stars through hardship. Some of us must go through the experiences to learn the lesson; no reading or meditation will take the place of it for us.

And, of course, with 9 cats my puzzle pieces keep disappearing at times... only to turn up in the oddest of places!

[Dear_Prudence]

13. Cats

I only have 3 cats, but you are right about them disappearing puzzle pieces!

[BigmanPigman]

14. I am an Atheist and have been since I was 12.

Most of the Atheists I know were raised for a period with the Catholic Religion, like me. I think from my experiences and my friends' experiences, Catholicism was too wacky to be a member of.

I do believe that something does happen after you die though. I know this from many personal experiences after my loved ones died.

Also, I have listened to people who had near death experiences and they were Atheists. They do not mention a "god" but they do mention a white light and seeing deceased family and friends as well as go through a "life review". They all said how great it was and most didn't want to go back to their old "body".

One thing I did notice was that NONE ever mentioned any negative force, a devil, Hell, etc.

That is what I believe now. There is no "god" or "devil" but after you die you do stay in a wonderful, beautiful place that has no negative feelings/atmosphere. It is really our "home" and being in a body on Earth is not our real home, it's temporary lodging.

[Collimator]

15. Hello, all! I'd like to chime in with a few thoughts related to this discussion.

First, my background bonafides: Like most Americans of European extraction I was raised with a flavor of Christianity.

My family is Italian, so we were Catholic. ( In my experience, Italian-Catholics have between 20 to 25% less guilt than Irish-Catholics, and are perhaps 20 to 25% less antisemitic than Polish-Catholics.)

I engaged in a great deal of soul-searching and religious inquiry as a young person and eventually "accepted Jesus" as they say, in my senior year of high school. This led to my spending many years reading the Bible very closely.

Like so many others who have taken the time to read the Bible, I became troubled by its contents. The first cracks in the foundation of my Christian faith didn't appear because of what I refer to as the Scientific Arguments or the Scholarly Arguments or the Historical Arguments. (Many of the critiques found in these categories can overlap, btw.) It was the Moral Argument against Biblical codes and tenents that began to wear against my sensitive nature.

Fast-forward a bit, and I pretty much label myself a rationalist empiricist but I find embracing that worldview too strictly tends to push me into depression. I have done a great deal of reading on Feminist Spirituality and Goddess Worship, and even though it is at odds with my atheist persona, I like to "play" at believing in a Female Deity.

Growing up female in a patriarchal society and having a difficult relationship with my human mother, I find it healing to conceptualize a wise, patient, nurturing Goddess. I am not prepared to die on the hill of insisting that she exists and there are some aspects of goddess worship culture that I can't accept intellectually, but the idea is comforting. I have found insight and empowerment as well as inspiration and beauty in the general idea of a Mother Goddess.

Now for a dramatic swerve in another direction. . . I've also found empowerment and inspiration in Star Trek. (If you just experienced a little bit of whiplash there trying to follow me, don't worry, I'm going somewhere with this.)

Does anyone remember the concept of the Vulcan Mind Meld? The idea behind it is that two people can share each other's thoughts and feelings so intensely that they have-- for a moment-- become one entity.

My "playful" theory on what happens when we die is that we enter into this "One-ness" with the Original Source or Matrix of all Existence. All of our individual flaws and desires fall away and we realize that our separateness-- while interesting during our mortal tenure-- was an illusion. We are truly one with each other and because of that, those of us who have caused great harm to others in our earthly lives suffer a particular punishment.

We aren't burned with flames or forced to endure having our livers pecked out; but our hearts are broken as we feel-- really feel-- the pain we have inflicted on others. This heartbreaking empathy doesn't literally have to last forever. Frankly, the concept of time is pointless in this little thought experiment. What matters is that both the pain and the personhood of those injured is fully acknowledged by those who caused that pain.

That is my hope for justice. Part of me thinks that it's silly and childish. But like my habit of talking to the ceiling from time to time, it doesn't hurt anyone else, and it helps me get by in this world.

Peace to us all.