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MorningGlow

(15,758 posts)
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 02:35 PM Jan 2012

My uber-Catholic freeper-type aunt

gave me a birthday gift yesterday: the book Heaven is for Real (the one about the little boy who has a near-death experience).

I think she issued it as a challenge, expecting me to roll my eyes and reject it. She has no idea that I believe in heaven more than she does--she's pathologically terrified of dying and can't bring herself to say that people who pass--even those who have lived a good, long, fulfilling life--are going to a good place. She always says, "Such a shame; poor (whoever)..." Even if they were 98 and in pain.

Anyway, it also drove home the point to me how many people think that if you're a pagan, you don't believe in God or anything associated with God. Couldn't be further from the truth. But--sigh--I'm not going to waste my breath trying to convince her. I just said thank you and said that I'd been wanting to read the book (which is the truth).

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My uber-Catholic freeper-type aunt (Original Post) MorningGlow Jan 2012 OP
another coincidence, twin... FirstLight Jan 2012 #1
Holy crap--what a terrible situation MorningGlow Jan 2012 #2
I don't know why some folks find it nessasary to evanglize at every opurtuinty ..... Howler Jan 2012 #3
Telling her that you have been wanting to read it kentauros Jan 2012 #4
LOL she might very well think the latter! MorningGlow Jan 2012 #8
Not a "lie of ommission" eh? kentauros Jan 2012 #10
Lie of omission? MorningGlow Jan 2012 #11
Well, in THAT case, kentauros Jan 2012 #12
That's what we keep TELLING people MorningGlow Jan 2012 #13
but Catholics don't believe in the literal translation Tumbulu Jan 2012 #14
You'll have to take that up with MG's aunt ;) kentauros Jan 2012 #15
oops, sorry, wrong place , (nt) Tumbulu Jan 2012 #16
Did you see this story, MG? WolverineDG Jan 2012 #5
wow, thanks for sharing FirstLight Jan 2012 #6
It's like Rainbow Sunrise Jan 2012 #7
I did indeed, Wolverine MorningGlow Jan 2012 #9

FirstLight

(14,038 posts)
1. another coincidence, twin...
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 03:23 PM
Jan 2012

My sister and I were talking about a secondary family member (her husband's ex, mom of her stepdaughter) who has recently been re-diagnosed with a THIRD bout of cancer... so i heard all the depressing news, and she went on to tell me of her stepdaughter's crisis of faith because of it, the whole "why" thing...

her reply and new stance is that the woman has been following wicca for a couple years now, and the cancer is part of Gods way of 'bringing her back' to the church...because the wiccan thing is evil...blahblahblah...So the family's 'mission' is to get her to accept God back into her heart before she dies...

what a bummer, wish i was friends with her and could warn her...how awful to be going thru chemo and shit and have a family badgering you to "get Right with God" - whether it be to save your life or ready yourself for the afterlife...




MorningGlow

(15,758 posts)
2. Holy crap--what a terrible situation
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 05:10 PM
Jan 2012

Sorry to hear that, FL. I can relate--I've always been very afraid of getting seriously ill while my aunt is in this realm, because she would do the same to me, no doubt.

Howler

(4,225 posts)
3. I don't know why some folks find it nessasary to evanglize at every opurtuinty .....
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 05:45 PM
Jan 2012

But it all worked out in the end because you were givin a book that you have wanted to read! WOOT!!!!

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
4. Telling her that you have been wanting to read it
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 09:20 PM
Jan 2012

may enlighten her about your beliefs. Or, she may think that you've been wanting to read it in order to mock it

She does know what you do for a living, right? Or is all New Age about Paganism to her?

I was just thinking about a similar topic within the hour. That is, those of us that have a New Age outlook on life get the mocking/disdain from both sides, or from the "true believer" evangelicals and from the septics/atheists. They have a "common enemy" and don't even know it!

MorningGlow

(15,758 posts)
8. LOL she might very well think the latter!
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:00 PM
Jan 2012

No, she doesn't know what I do--not the details, anyway. When I was with my coven, I was "going to meditation classes/sessions" (not a lie--we did meditations ). I write for a trade magazine for book- and gift shops (also not a lie ).

And anything that's not Catholicism is "of the devil"--so yeah, New Age and Paganism are the same in her eyes...and the same as Hinduism, Judaism, Episcopalian...er...ism?, etc. etc. etc.

about the common enemy. That reminds me of the time I pointed out to my elder, who was talking about the influence of the divine on evolution, that that meant our beliefs were one and the same as those of creationist conservative religions. I'd never actually seen a person's head explode before that moment... To her credit, she thought it was pretty darn cool. We pagans, we open-minded like that.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
10. Not a "lie of ommission" eh?
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:16 PM
Jan 2012


As for the bit about divinely-guided evolution being the same as fundie-creationism, well, it may seem that way as first glance, but it goes deeper. My understanding of it is that divinely-guided evolution is exactly the same as scientific evolution, both for life and cosmology. It all takes the same amount of time, with the results being what they are today. Without the guidance by the divine, this would be a very different world

At the same time, creationists will only accept that the world is 6,000 to 12,000 years old (I don't know why some acknowledge longer durations, other than perhaps to account for established evidence of the age of Western civilization, while discounting the age of the Aborigines' existence in Australia.) I remember reading one fundie in one of those evolution trials explaining their beliefs, when confronted about the absolute measurement of the speed of light and the fact that the stars are thousands and millions of light years away. If the universe is only 6,000 years old, then the stars would have to be closer. No, was their answer, the light from those very distant stars "was created already on the way to Earth". They have an answer for everything, and won't accept the idea that the universe could be older than the bible states, much less the "ludicrous" idea that it's 13.7 billion years old

Sorry. Got long-winded again.

MorningGlow

(15,758 posts)
11. Lie of omission?
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:24 PM
Jan 2012

Why, whatever do you mean?

Yeah, the views are indeed totally different (and my elder was well aware of it too), but to have it reduced to its simplest comparison...well, that was pretty funny.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
12. Well, in THAT case,
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:29 PM
Jan 2012

"All That Is" ties every single religion, every kind of science, and philosophy together, too!

Tumbulu

(6,441 posts)
14. but Catholics don't believe in the literal translation
Tue Jan 3, 2012, 12:03 AM
Jan 2012

of the bible, I know of none that are creationists.

I have many very devout Catholic friends. One nun is also an Astrologer at the homeless shelter for battered women and children that she runs at age 80 or something.

There are all sorts of mystical elements to this very huge religion that incorporated the greek gods into Judaism- that elevates Mary as the "Mother of God" . I know that the Catholic faith has a wide assortment of actual beliefs within it.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
15. You'll have to take that up with MG's aunt ;)
Tue Jan 3, 2012, 12:41 AM
Jan 2012

I was only addressing the bit about creationism vs. divinely-guided evolution

WolverineDG

(22,298 posts)
5. Did you see this story, MG?
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 09:35 PM
Jan 2012

very sad story....he died on Christmas Day, but this video was posted to his channel about a week before that:

FirstLight

(14,038 posts)
6. wow, thanks for sharing
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 09:51 PM
Jan 2012

powerful stuff... Interesting that he died, again...and stayed there. You think he may have asked to go back to that place?

the first thing i was thinking about the first and second vision...first he *saw* the light, then he was IN the Light...

deep... i will have to think about that one.

MorningGlow

(15,758 posts)
9. I did indeed, Wolverine
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 11:03 PM
Jan 2012

I meant to post it here a few days ago but didn't get to it.

I found it fascinating. My first thought was that he had his earlier near-death experiences to learn not to fear death. His health was so tenuous...I just got the impression his guides were showing him what to prepare for if his heart couldn't hold out, and it turned out it couldn't.

Such an interesting kid. It is a shame that sometimes we're born with faulty parts.

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