Interesting post in GD

[xmas74]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002171856

"I've seen Jesus referred to as Jeebus and Jeezus.

Does that mean we can interchange Muhammad/Mooohammad and Buddha/Booba?

I am not religious in the least. I just find it oddly antagonistic and out of place."

The comments are interesting at times and I thought this was something that could promote some discussion here on our forum.

What does everyone think when they see this happen on DU?

[leftyohiolib]

1. it is antagonistic mocking

it's done alot here, jeebus and another favorite "sky wizard". it seems some people think that dis-belief makes them superior to the religious and therefore are empowered to mock.
there seems to be two types the atheists and the anti-religious. the anti-religious maybe once believed but something happened to them personally or to someone they loved and because of that God doesnt exsist and so now the religious people are dolts to believe the in a sky wizard.
there are others incapable of belief in stuff they cant see and b/c God cant been seen your belief is silly. it's all just religious intolerance that has always been accepted here.

[xmas74]

2. Personally,

I've known a number of atheists on DU who were more than open to my being a person of faith. Most of the mean comments have been made by those who tend to antagonize on multiple fronts (not just religion but other "sensitive" subjects), those who enjoy the attention of trolling, and those who really seem to have maturity issues.

I have noticed that the agnostics/atheists here on DU who are the most accepting are those who are usually activists in real life. Anti war, anti death penalty, poverty issues activists tend to be very accepting to religious folks, compared to some of the other posters. I think this is because they often interact with each other outside of this message board and learn to realize that they have similar aims.

[leftyohiolib]

3. that's been my experience with atheists as well

they dont believe but they dont mock you for yours. that's why i believe in the two types and why i think the ones who mock the religious are not so much atheist but anti-religion.

[onpatrol98]

4. Yes...I think anti religious

The few athiests that I have bumped into basically seemed to want to be left alone. They didn't want religion forced on them. They didn't seem to mind a Merry Christmas or God Bless You. But, the anti-religion on DU when I first joined and even today startled me. To say it was hostile and is hostile is an understatement.

They make statements to be purposefully hateful. In fact, I take it as raw bigotry that is freely tolerated on DU and at times encouraged. It's amazing that the site can quickly sum up and quell the bigotry against other groups, but against Christians, it seems tolerated and even has a healthy support group. Basically, they are online bullies.

But, life goes on. What can you do? Bullies exist in every group. You have to learn to live with them and not let them get you down. I think people like that are unhappy. So, it's really that they're acting out. Now, being around adults that act out their rage and unhappiness makes you feel a bit...uneasy. But, I guess you learn to love them anyway.

[xmas74]

5. There are a few here

who are loud and proud of bullying everyone else. They don't care what their behavior says about them and they don't care that most here are on their side on other issues. They only care about how to tell every person of faith to shove it, or deride the concerns of women or the LGBT groups, or attack "breeders", or whatever other thing you can think of.

We have bullies all over DU. They pick their topic and attempt to bully all others into submission. Religion just seems to be an especially vocal topic, even if it's a comment as simple as "I attended services...".

[Critters2]

6. The bullying atheists are in mimetic relationships with Fundie Christians

They take them (without realizing it) as their role models, and end up stuck in mimetic, rivalrous relationships. The clearest symptoms of this is the "they do it, too" statement. I always enjoy watching people take their nemesis as their behavioral model. It's especially amusing when it reaches the "Do not! Do, too!" level. Hilarity ensues!

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. Great post

Sums it up. Fundies/anti-religious atheists desperately need the other to survive. It's a poisonous symbiotic relationship that feeds off the cycle of hate that grows from each group's caricature of the other - and the need to live up to that caricature just to deliberately piss the other off. It's sad.

[xmas74]

9. Exactly.

It's become a playground of bullies and when one is called out on it, he says that "everyone else does it."

I thought that we were above all that around here. I should know better, as long as I've been here on DU.

[Thats my opinion]

13. I made the mistake in DU2 of trying to reason with them.

That's a no-winner for everybody. My advice is just to ignore them. They will try to lure you into what seems to be a rational conversation and when you are in, BAM! the attacks will start.-
If you don't get involved to begin with, you won't have the problem. I'm encouraged by the new voices in "Religion" who really want to discuss serious things, not just to blast.
So let's keep it up.

[demosincebirth]

14. Reason with them? I gues you learned your big mistake. Never met one on DU that you could have

a civil, or fairly decent discussion with.

[deutsey]

15. I had a similar experience

Only there was no luring involved. The person began with an attack on my OP that, imo, was based on his/her misunderstanding what I was saying.

No matter how much I tried to explain my POV (and I took great care to elaborate on what my OP had been about), the person preferred to continue whipping a dead horse.

In our exchange, I had the feeling I had just walked into a room and someone I didn't know was continuing an argument with me that I had never been a part of.

[BrendaBrick]

8. First time in this forum

and I must say, I have learned something from reading the posts here.

Now that I think about it, there does seem to be some blanket Christian bashing going on here and is allowed to stand.

Thanks for opening my eyes to this. I'm going to be more mindful whenever I read and respond to posts in the future.

[xmas74]

10. Welcome to the group!

We're glad to have you here. It doesn't matter what you do or do not believe, as long as you are able to discuss it in a civil manner. Please feel free to stick around and post some more!

As to the blanket bashing: It's allowed to stand because a few of the posters have felt threatened by faux Christian types IRL and have decided that's how all Christians act. They seem to forget that we are (mostly) all on the same page. They also forget that most of the mainline/liberal Christian churches believe heavily in social justice and are more than willing to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Instead, they think of all of us as Bob Jones/Jerry Falwell-types.

And the jury system isn't helping with the negative posts. I know I've personally reported some especially offensive posts and have had them pass through the jury. In the old DU system, the mods would have locked and deleted the comments.

[BrendaBrick]

11. Thanks for the welcome.

RE: blanket bashing - Have you considered posting in the Help & Meta-discussion forum citing examples? The TOS state:

"No bigoted hate speech.

Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic. To be clear: This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood. In determining what constitutes bigotry, please be aware that we cannot know what is in anyone's heart, and we will give members the benefit of the doubt, when — and only when — such doubt exists."

I think tolerance should swing in all directions and even though I am not Christian, I can see how some of the terms: "Jeebus" and "man in the sky" etc are insensitive. I mean, what if a mockery term were used for Allah or Buddha - somehow I don't think that would fly.

I think that someone could get their point across just fine without having to resort to insensitive terminology and you're right, there does seem to be some assumption(s) along the lines that all Christians are Bob Jones/Jerry Falwell-types.

Lastly, I can understand that much grief from many of the Republicans also carries with it a certain aspect of religion and (of course) there is plenty of room for bashing the Republicans here on this site - but, by the same token, I don't think it is fair (or respectful) to just bash religion/Christianity as a whole just because of this association.

If one purports to be tolerant, then by skippy, you've got to not only talk the talk...but walk the walk.

[xmas74]

12. Unfortunately,

this has been an issue here at DU for many years. The comments and remarks have been reported many times over the years and little has been done about it. Most of the Christians on this forum find safe havens (this group, for example) to discuss their issues of faith.

This is very much a safe group, in case you are interested. I'm the host of the group and I want this to remain a safe haven, for both believers and non believers. I'm happy when I see good discussion on here and I think it's great to read other points of view. As long as the post is made in a civil manner it will be allowed to stay. And no poster has to be worried about being blocked from this group, unless they choose to be nasty with another poster. (I've yet to use that option but it is on the table if absolutely needed.)

[kentauros]

24. Also first time posting in this group :)

I "followed" xmas74 over here from a subthread discussion in GD about "M'Zuruh" (Missouri)
I'm not stalking; I just looked at your profile, and saw your 'promotion' for this group. Plus, with our short discussion, I would at least be somewhat familiar to one and maybe some others here. Otherwise, you'll find me mostly at the ASAH group.

So, here's something related to all this that's been on my mind for probably a couple of weeks, ever since I read a thread of theirs, as detailed below:

My own analysis of why the atheists continue to attack, mock, belittle, and generally dismiss any belief is related to a thread they started in their own forum. That is, their insistence on a discernible line between the believer and their belief. This allows them to justify all of their hateful actions against any believer of any faith or spiritual practice.

This also allowed them to spin the saying "Hate the sin, not the sinner" into their own motto as "Attack the belief, not the believer." Because seemingly, in their minds, as they are able to easily detach the belief from the believer, then the believer should be able to do the same. After all, it's just a "fantasy" and anyone can separate fantasy from reality (as they rationalize it.)

The part that they don't get in all this is that for the believer to detach from their belief, would be akin to the atheists detaching their mind from their brain. Seeing as how they already don't believe in a personal soul or spirit to begin with, it would be utterly impossible for the mind to separate from the brain. So, how do they come to the conclusion that a believer can easily step aside from their belief?

The only answer I can come to is that they dismiss the concept of an emotional attachment to a belief. They must have the belief separate from the believer, or they can't justify their attacks. And that would leave them open to far more alerts and potentially hidden posts (and possible PPRs) than they are willing to allow.

I hope that made sense!

[RegieRocker]

16. The blatant one sided attack on christians on du tells a story

DU hates Christianity and loves atheism. Attacking Judaism, Muslims etc is not ok. Get the picture.

[demilib]

17. It doesn't help that so many right wingers are hi-jacking Christianity....

to the point that people believe that all Christians act that way

[RegieRocker]

18. That sounds like religionism (racism of religion) to me.

People who are hell bent on mocking Christianity are no better than the right wingers. Intellectually they are very much alike.

[regnaD kciN]

19. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread is being tolerated...

On DU2, one of the "conditions" to allowing this group to continue was that we post nothing criticizing the treatment of Christians on the site.

[RegieRocker]

20. The only purpose then is to have a venue for attacking christians?

That speaks volumes.

[xmas74]

22. As you can tell,

I will not be deleting anything on this thread. IMO, we've kept calm and haven't singled out one specific person.

We are treated badly at times here on DU. It's not the majority that treat us in this manner-just a very small, but vocal, minority. Plenty of others have spoken out on our behalf, though it's sometimes hard to catch.

I check in here a few times a week, just to be sure that everything is still running smoothly. I really hope not only this thread but that this group will remain and become more active than ever before.

[RegieRocker]

21. I will add one, asseists

[kwassa]

23. Just a slight mispelling!

Asseists. Gee, my spellchecker didn't catch that one.