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NNadir

(34,664 posts)
Thu Mar 2, 2023, 12:00 AM Mar 2023

JAMA Psychiatry: Mass Violence and the Complex Spectrum of Mental Illness and Mental Functioning

I sort of stumbled upon this article in my JAMA newsfeed: Knoll J 4th, Dietz P. Mass Violence and the Complex Spectrum of Mental Illness and Mental Functioning. JAMA Psychiatry. 2023 Feb 1;80(2):186-188

The spate of mass killings, almost all related to the ready availability of guns is disturbing, and I'm personally trying not to think so much about the perpetrators, thinking they get off on the fame, but rather the victims.

Nevertheless, I wonder how it is that people come to doing this.

Without much comment, some excerpts from the article:

When psychiatric leaders state that mass violence, mass murder, or mass shootings are not caused by mental illness, the public understandably reacts with dismissive incredulity. Does not basic logic dictate that mental illness is a necessary precondition for being able to carry out such an act? The answer is complex, and it is possible that psychiatry has done a poor job of clarifying what must seem to the public like a specious conclusion. The confusion may partially stem from inconsistencies in the definitions used for mass violence as well as a failure to clarify what constitutes mental illness.

With respect to definitions, researchers, journalists, and other commentators have inconsistent quantitative and qualitative thresholds for declaring an event mass violence, mass murder, or a mass shooting. These basic definitional issues determine whether such events appear more common (by including nonfatal injuries and fewer people who are killed) or less common (by only including fatal injuries and more people who are killed). There are also inconsistencies in whether writers are excluding events within families, gang-related events, events in certain settings, or events in which certain weapons were used. Such inconsistencies make it difficult to compare data among studies of similar, but not identical, events and may be strongly associated with the number of events encompassed, the characteristics and motives discerned for the violent actors, and the opportunity to detect root causes of the behavior.

To our knowledge, no study has ever found that most of those engaging in mass violence of any kind have a psychotic mental illness or are taking psychotropic medications,1,2 and this is what psychiatrists usually have in mind when they dismiss the assertion that mental illness or psychotropic medications are the primary cause of mass violence. For example, 2 publications based on a US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) study of active shooters from 2000 to 20133,4 found that only 25% of perpetrators had ever received a diagnosis of mental illness and concluded, “[A]bsent specific evidence, careful consideration should be given to social and contextual factors that might interact with any mental health issue before concluding that an active shooting was ‘caused’ by mental illness. In short, declarations that all active shooters must simply be mentally ill are misleading and unhelpful.” Likewise, Hall et al1 reviewed available information regarding individuals involved in educational institution shootings per the FBI publications on active shooters from 2000 to 2017 and found that most school shooters were not previously treated with psychotropic medications and concluded that “by either the primary measure of documented psychotropic treatment at any time prior to the event, or the secondary measure of a successful NGRI (not guilty by reason of insanity) defense, it does not appear that most school shooters had been prescribed psychotropic medications prior to the shooting or were negatively impacted by the medications.”

Psychiatrists, and particularly forensic psychiatrists, understand that acts of violence are often committed for reasons other than mental illness. During their training, forensic psychiatrists quickly learn what a mistake it is to assume a crime was associated with a mental illness simply because it was horrific, deviant, or bizarre. When a serial murderer is apprehended after sexually assaulting and killing a dozen people and keeping body parts in their home, it is impossible to argue that this is normal or rational behavior. Is their pattern of luring people into their home, binding them, torturing them, and retaining their body parts prima facie evidence of a serious mental illness? It would almost always be incorrect to assume so, but the pull is strong. It is more comforting to believe that a disease of the mind overtook them and caused these unspeakable acts. There is nothing reassuring about the notion that the individuals’ lives were less important to them than their own sexual gratification. However, to comfort themselves, the public wants to believe that outside forces cause unspeakable acts; hence, the legends of vampires and werewolves, the fascination with transformations of Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde and Dr Bruce Banner into the Hulk, and the impulse to assume that mass murder arises from mental illness...

...researchers have begun to investigate a higher-order classification system based on a spectrum, or dimensional approach, which is now receiving robust attention.6 There has been substantial research around dimensionality and mental illness, leading some to assert it may be superior for future scientific study.7,8 Dimensional approaches vary, but one approach aggregates psychiatric symptoms into 3 domains of psychopathology: (1) internalizing, (2) externalizing, and (3) psychotic experience. This tripartite dimensional approach has practical clinical use and research support...

... This approach may also help clarify misconceptions about the rate of psychosis in mass violence perpetrators, as well as which parts of the spectrum of mental functioning are most associated with perpetrators. For example, a testable hypothesis might be that most mass violence offenders are externalizing, given their personality structure, absence of clear psychotic symptoms, and inability to process intrapsychic conflicts in a prosocial manner. Several may have co-occurring externalizing/internalizing problems, while some may have psychosis. There is now a large body of research suggesting that internalizing and externalizing problems often co-occur.9 This externalizing spectrum hypothesis seems reasonable, given that there is now much evidence of an association between emotion dysregulation/impulsiveness, psychopathy, narcissism, and antisocial spectrum pathology and increased risk of violence.10 Approximately half (45.6%) of mass school shootings ended with the perpetrator's suicide...11

...Personality and personality disorder are concepts referring to the characteristic patterns of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of an individual that are consistent over time and contexts. The reason to be somewhat optimistic about studying mass violence in terms of the externalizing and internalizing personality dimensions is that such psychopathology might be observed and mitigated by early childhood and other treatment interventions. Personality can be partially viewed as an adaptation strategy that is associated in some degree with the environment and social changes. Can early interventions be made in children’s psychosocial environments that will produce more prosocial outcomes? Research already suggests that personality traits associated with empathy and attunement to others’ emotions are associated with an aversion to harming others and a tendency to benefit others.13 In contrast, personality styles associated with decreased empathy and emotional callousness are more likely to be associated with strained interpersonal relationships and various forms of psychopathology...

... In sum, psychiatry has struggled to clarify the type of mental turmoil that is associated with mass violence for the following reasons: (1) the behavior of most perpetrators does not appear to be associated with psychotic mental illness; (2) psychiatrists typically wish to protect vulnerable patient populations who are experiencing serious mental disorders, most of whom are nonviolent, from the stigma attached to mass violence; and (3) most in-depth analyses of mass violence offenders suggest that they function in the externalizing and internalizing personality disorder domains...


I don't know what to say about any of this, and am hardly competent to do so, but it struck me as interesting. I worried about this when my kids were in high school, particularly since there were some "edgy" kids there, and I still worry about it with a son still at a university.

It sucks.
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JAMA Psychiatry: Mass Violence and the Complex Spectrum of Mental Illness and Mental Functioning (Original Post) NNadir Mar 2023 OP
Mass violence in our country; we as a country need to discuss this more, examine it and relate it in CharleyDog Mar 2023 #1
Imho, they need to add toxic masculinity as a diagnosis SheltieLover Mar 2023 #2
Blame shift IbogaProject Mar 2023 #3
The third paragraph excerpted suggests that this issue has already been examined... NNadir Mar 2023 #4
SSRIs have bigger risks w teens IbogaProject Mar 2023 #5

CharleyDog

(769 posts)
1. Mass violence in our country; we as a country need to discuss this more, examine it and relate it in
Thu Mar 2, 2023, 01:39 AM
Mar 2023

our own lives. We are all vulnerable to mass violence as you said, worry about ourselves and our family falling victim; but also
who becomes the "perpetrator" of violence? As we witnessed in Jan 6 acts, a mob of mostly "normal people" attacked the Capitol police (not mentally ill), many shooters (as we call them) believe they have integrity - bestowed by god or from Fox News; and so what do we do as a country? Instead of solutions right now, many in our country are doing the opposite and breeding mass violence.

It could affect *anyone* who becomes convinced that violence is the only way to save the country, to save the "babies," to kill the pedophiles, that Blue States/blue cities are vermin infested cockroach people and violence is necessary.

-any person can "break," become desperate, do desperate acts
-people are easily brainwashed, more than most people realize
-Mass media/social media purposefully twisting truth for propaganda and money, politics and power
-weapons/guns/force are more glorified. Even Jesus has a gun.

It's not just personality disorders, or mental illnesses we have to worry about in mass violence; psychiatry is not helping us with the purposeful brainwashing of some mass media outlets, the threat of guns everywhere, calls for civil war, cruel laws against the most vulnerable people in our country, and stoking rumors of nuclear warfare - all this is not normal. Not a way to live. Other countries are not this way.

SheltieLover

(59,610 posts)
2. Imho, they need to add toxic masculinity as a diagnosis
Thu Mar 2, 2023, 04:52 AM
Mar 2023

That sense of entitlement & belief that causing pain to others somehow elevates themselves.

This is transgenerational. It's how many families rear their offspring.

Solve disputes with your fists, or guns.

I believe this is pervasive in our society.

How often does someone say to you, "Well, if it makes you feel any better..." then recount some malady they have experienced or heard about?

My answer is always "no. Wth would I feel better knowing someone else is suffering or had a bad day?" Truly surreal!

Mental health care is largely absent in rural areas, even with the trend of telemedicine brought about by the pandemic.

When kids are bullying in school, they and their families should immediately be placed into Multisystemic Therapy, an intensive, evidence based form of therapy. As far as I know, this is the ONLY form of therapy shown to be effective in stopping thd progression of oppositionally defiant kids to conduct disorder to antosocial personality disorder to eventual prison.

But most families are highly resistant to such an approach, as this model looks at and seeks to change the entire family unit.

Think of a mobile that hangs over an infant's crib as a representation of the family unit. If you touch one part, all parts move, or are disrupted. This can be quite uncomfortable for those unwilling to face their own demons.

A family genogram might bring these sorts of tendancies to consciousness, but where & when does that happen? It takes hours to put one together, discuss it, & process it in therapy. Therapy that is largely nonexistent in many parts of the country.

And therapy which, if not court ordered will never be engaged in or complied with.

Dysfunctional caregivers are experts at snapping back their rubber fences to protect their own behaviors.

Consider this: why aren't Psych & Human Growth & Development middle school & high school requirements nationwide?

Encouraging and supporting kids from young ages to live consciously & teaching them to engage in discourse rather than act out violently would go a long way to heal our society, imo.

Thx for the thread!

IbogaProject

(3,652 posts)
3. Blame shift
Thu Mar 2, 2023, 02:59 PM
Mar 2023

The issue is ADHD meds given to children and the inevitable discontinuance. They are playing with definitions to exclude the causal medicines to absolve themselves of responsibility. Yes we have way more guns than most everywhere. But I believe use of ADHD & SSRIs within a society is correlated with violence, especially when they are discontinued. The high level of violence on TV and in the cinema are a slight factor. It seems video games only train those prone so while they influence by training and conditioning, healthy kids can separate that from real life. Papers looking for recent use show low corelation. But research into the prevelance of SSRIs in a society compared w gun availability would need to be done. It's hard to sort out are we a sick society or are our meds making the volunerable more at risk. Suicidal ideation is a side effect of SSRIs so is the propensity to kill while going out an effect? The link w recent ADHD meds is low for a small sample of 48 school shootings. I'm still suspicious while I do feel the lack of regulation of our personal arms dealers is the biggest factor.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
4. The third paragraph excerpted suggests that this issue has already been examined...
Fri Mar 3, 2023, 06:21 PM
Mar 2023

...and there's little to support that conclusion.

I have family members who take SSRI inhibitors. I'm not necessarily sanguine about their use, but that said, I don't expect these family members to become mass murderers.

The situation does not admit facile solutions or etiology.

IbogaProject

(3,652 posts)
5. SSRIs have bigger risks w teens
Fri Mar 3, 2023, 07:28 PM
Mar 2023

I think those under 25 don't have fully developed frontal lobes so the SSRIs while ok for over 25 might present different risks w that age cohort. The risk of "sucidial ideation" is increased by those meds and more severely for the younger group. Might be a small shift from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 100, but that's an possible effect. I am aware that our countries lax gun policies bear most of the blame for our mass shooting carnage.

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