Neanderthals And Humans Were at War For Over 100,000 Years, Evidence Shows

[Judi Lynn]

NICHOLAS R. LONGRICH, THE CONVERSATION 3 NOVEMBER 2020

Around 600,000 years ago, humanity split in two. One group stayed in Africa, evolving into us. The other struck out overland, into Asia, then Europe, becoming Homo neanderthalensis – the Neanderthals. They weren't our ancestors, but a sister species, evolving in parallel.

Neanderthals fascinate us because of what they tell us about ourselves – who we were, and who we might have become. It's tempting to see them in idyllic terms, living peacefully with nature and each other, like Adam and Eve in the Garden.

If so, maybe humanity's ills – especially our territoriality, violence, wars – aren't innate, but modern inventions.

Biology and palaeontology paint a darker picture. Far from peaceful, Neanderthals were likely skilled fighters and dangerous warriors, rivalled only by modern humans.

Top predators

Predatory land mammals are territorial, especially pack-hunters. Like lions, wolves and Homo sapiens, Neanderthals were cooperative big-game hunters. These predators, sitting atop the food chain, have few predators of their own, so overpopulation drives conflict over hunting grounds. Neanderthals faced the same problem; if other species didn't control their numbers, conflict would have.

More:
https://www.sciencealert.com/how-neanderthals-and-humans-battled-for-supremacy-for-over-100-000-years

[Pachamama]

1. Did they find tatters of Red Hats on the Neanderthals skulls?

Sorry....

Couldn't resist....

[greyl]

2. Neanderthals ARE human, but not modern human. nt

[LSFL]

3. I have often wondered about that massive hind brain

What purpose did it have?

I know that skeletal forensics shows that modern man walked and ran much more. Did being able to run prey to ground and follow game migration more easily give us an edge? We will never know. But looking at the robust bones of Neanderthal man, I would certainly believe that we had ranged weapons before or shortly after encountering them. They would tear us apart in close combat.

I am going to repurchase all those anthropological Neanderthal books I used to own. Time to relight that candle.

[wnylib]

5. Re: massive hind brain.

I thought it was related to control of the large muscular system of Neanderthal.

[mopinko]

4. i have this theory

that autoimmune diseases are our homo sapiens immune system rejecting our neanderthal cells.
they coexist fine until viruses or pregnancy fire up the immune system.

i have several myself. they are all over my family. us gingers are the sickest.
i had 6 pregnancies, and most viruses, starting as a baby. i got west nile in '02, and i have been sick ever since. i think i got a mild case of ms then. but have also recently been dx'd as diabetic, and it has been cooking for several years now.
also have shogrens, which impacted my youngest as a fetus.
that kid has ehlers-danlo 2, and unexplained liver issues.

i think eventually we will find that there are similar proto human genes in ppl from other parts of the globe, and that similar conflicts arise in those that have similar holdover genes.

[wnylib]

6. There apparently is a relationship

between Neanderthal genes, allergies, and virus susceptibility. I read about it in an article about how Neanderthal genes affect the Homo sapiens immune system. Sorry, I don't have a link to the article and only remember that it was a result of some research on the beneficial vs. harmful effects on sapiens of interbreeding with HN. If I remember right, there were some initial immune benefits that no longer are so beneficial. I would need to look it up if I can find the article again.

I have umpteen allergies, asthma, and a lifelong high susceptibility to viral infections. (Consequently I am hyper vigilant these days.) As I get older, viral infections for me carry an aftermath of a type of muscle inflammation that is most common in people of northern European descent. I have a lot of British and German ancestry. I suspect that I also have Neanderthal genes on the higher end of the 2% to 4% estimated in Homo sapiens.

[mopinko]

7. interesting. the thing that made me think i was on the right track

was a study out of tokyo that showed a correlation to bad covid outcomes.

i've told this to a couple of docs, and of course, so far they think i'm nuts.

but ya know, back in the 60's my da saw the potential of electricity from waves, and most ppl thought he was nuts.
all he had to go on was a little bitty book about the physics of wind and waves.
he built a model, and took it to some prof in the u chgo physics debt. i keep meaning to see if it's gathering dust somewhere. i would love to have it.
so, i come by big ideas naturally.

another thing that got me thinking about this stuff was an article here about someone who asked the question- has medicine gotten too far from pure science?
they asked a team of quantum physicists if they could figure out how cancer cells got through inter cellular space like they did.
the team was ppl who worked w super fluids. fluids that get so dense they act like solids.
they thought this was what cancer cells did. which made them smaller.
and damned if that isnt exactly it.

ive had some crazy biochemical events in the last yr. remembering my chemistry, and my little bit of biology, i got through it all when i was having trouble seeing a doc.

in genetics, they are focused on the little bits and how they tie to a particular disease.
they should turn the microscope around.

[wnylib]

8. Regarding medicine and pure science,

many medical practitioners are far removed from research findings. Maybe just too much going on for them to keep up with. Docs, PA's, and NP's are focused more on established, practical, and tangible results than on theoretics and novel developments.

On med office visit early last February, I expressed concern to a physician assistant about my susceptibility to viral infections and the new coronavirus. At that time, most focus was on China, although a few "isolated" cases were reported in the US from people returning from China.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how a highly infectious disease can spread, just an understanding of how people live and interact. Plus some reasoning, e.g. more unreported cases likely in people who thought it was the flu. And a realization that, in today's world, many people travel abroad. Also, there's a long history of viral pandemics starting in one region and spreading. As a child, I barely survived a new flu virus that had originated in China and became a world wide pandemic.

But my PA ridiculed my concern by saying that western NY was a long way from China. Refused to discuss what precautions I might take as ridiculous concern over an improbability. Within a month, we were in lockdown.

I reject off the wall nonsense, but I trust my judgment on solid info that is soundly reasoned through, from reliable sources, even if my med practitioners are not yet aware of it.

[wnylib]

9. I found a couple articles on the relationship

between Neanderthal and Sapiens immune system DNA and the effects on us today. Most of them have very long web addresses and I'm posting from my phone. I'll try to post a link, but if it doesn't work, you can find the articles with the search words: Neanderthal, humans, immune systems, DNA.

https://phys.org/news/2016-01-neanderthal-genes-gave-modern-humans.html

The articles tell of 3 specific genes we inherited from intermating with Neanderthals that improved our ability to fight diseases, but which also cause the hyper immune system reactions of allergies in modern humans. They describe the process of discovering this genetic inheritance from Denisovans as well as Neanderthals.