So am I totally off base here?

[F4lconF16]

Maybe my criticisms are unfounded. But things like this have always bothered me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026466632

[skepticscott]

1. Even if this qualified as a violation

of church/state separation (and I'm not sure you can make a great case that it is), there are lots and lots of far more egregious ones to expend energy and political capital fighting.

I don't think the president is promoting or endorsing religion here any more than a lot of atheists do when they put up Christmas trees.

[F4lconF16]

4. I wasn't planning on spending anytime fighting it, for sure.

I just find that there are far too many things which are "secular" that are a little, I don't know, almost religious. Not enough to be worried about, and yeah, the egg roll is cute. It's the aggregate that bothers me, not the individual things.

As for whether or not it has to do with religion, can you imagine the right's reaction if someone tried to change the name to a spring festival egg roll or something like that? That tells me they're interested in keeping it religious, whether or not it originated from a pagan celebration.

I'm not going to be posting in that thread anymore, and I probably shouldn't have commented in the first place. But eh, that's what a discussion board is for.

[skepticscott]

7. Well, the nutbag fundy right would make

taking a dump be religious, if they could, just on principle. But as far as the people who actually participate in this thing, it is not religious.

[Warpy]

2. I think you're a little off base

because the Easter bunny and the egg roll are from the old Pagan stuff, not Christianity. It's a day to let down one's hair and be silly with a bunch of little kids and probably necessary for someone in such a high pressure job.

This one is a little different because it doesn't look like a 5 minute photo op and then back to the grindstone. It looks a little more participatory than it was under so many stiff presidents.

I honestly don't mind the Pagan stuff that is no longer particularly religious being celebrated. It's the best stuff that Christianity coopted, like Halloween costumes and the Xmas tree.

Were this a solemn convocation with religious choirs and a phalanx of priests and preachers, I'd object to it. This stuff is just for fun.

[F4lconF16]

6. Thanks for your response.

I need to think about this for a bit. I may well change my mind on it.

Like I said, I'm not that bothered--there are many bigger issues to deal with. It's a vague sense of unease, and perhaps it's unfounded.

[jeff47]

3. Your history stops a few millennia too early.

Christian holidays were appropriated from other religions as part of recruitment. So you still got your spring fertility festival in April, but they called it Easter and applied their own theology.

Humans have had celebrations during certain parts of the year for our entire recorded history. We like having a big party in the middle of winter. We like having another big party in the spring. Those have nothing to do with religion, but have to do with being human and our far harsher existence before modern times.

Religions have attempted to co-opt those celebrations as a means to exert control. You are granting those religions the control they want - you're handing all festivals to them. You don't have to.

Celebrate "Easter" as the return of pleasant weather due to axial tilt. Celebrate "Christmas" as a chance to get together and bring some joy into a dark and cold time of year.

[F4lconF16]

5. A fair point.

Thank you for your response. I think that's a good way to look at it.

[bvf]

8. Choose your battles wisely.

There are plenty of more meaningful ones to engage.

I find the whole concept of this tradition annoying, too, but to focus on stuff like this when a pizza parlor rakes in upwards of $800K for stating it wouldn't cater a hypothetical gay wedding, or a church pastor openly boasts about controlling a political party, strikes me as a mite misguided.

[F4lconF16]

9. I agree completely.

I meant to leave a small comment there and move on, which, in retrospect, was optimistic.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. This doesn't bother me so much.

Easter egg hunts... the Easter bunny... this stuff is like Santa Claus and Candy canes; there's nothing explicitly religious about it, despite being associated with a particular religion's holiday.

[F4lconF16]

11. Thanks for the reply.

there's nothing explicitly religious about it, despite being associated with a particular religion's holiday.

That's what bothers me, though. It's not the one thing, it's that there is a ton of stuff associated with religious holidays, and oddly enough, those holidays are very rarely anything other than Christian.

It's not a big deal, I just feel like it's one more thing in government that is tradition that comes from religion, whether religious now or not. Kinda bugs me.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. I see your point, and it is valid,

but you should not have been surprised by the attack. If it really didn't have anything to do with religion, then why don't we have a holiday for the first day of spring and celebrate it separately from the religious holiday?

But with that said, I get a tremendous kick out of all the Christians celebrating their holiday with pagan symbols and rituals.

[F4lconF16]

13. That is exactly what I have been trying to get at, albeit very, very poorly.

Thanks. I think I've changed my view on it, though--as someone else said, viewing it as religious only gives them the power. If we look at it as secular, even if it's celebrated in association with religion, it removes much of that power, though not entirely. Though I think there is still a religious connection, these types of things are relatively harmless. I will be trying not to let it bother me in the future--it was always a pet peeve of mine.

Agreed about the pagan things, though. I love how much of Christianity is simply borrowed from elsewhere, yet people so desparately want to believe that it was originally Christian. Actually, there isn't much to Christianity if you take out all the pagan rituals, dates, celebrations, myths, etc...

[beam me up scottie]

14. At least some of the responses were from people who wanted to explain the history.

Unlike the Dawkinz!!1! thread nanny crew who just showed up to put a target on your back.

Very classy, F4lconF16.

I too have evolved on DU.

[LiberalAndProud]

15. Oh, you old sourpuss.

Why fight the fun stuff? Easter just reminds me that old religions never die, they just morph into festivals and fun. Where's the harm?

[LostOne4Ever]

16. I think you do have a point

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]But like the others said, it just not worth the fight.[/font]

[AlbertCat]

17. You say in that thread: "based on originally religious ideas "

I think it's based on celebrating the spring equinox.... and the return of spring so , y'know, bunnies and eggs and chicks. There's really nothing Easter, as far as Christianity goes, about an easter egg hunt.

But I get your point.

I worry more about prayer breakfasts.

[Binkie The Clown]

18. What do bunnies and eggs have to do with religion?

It's a cultural tradition. I'm a died-in-the-wool atheist, but I just can't seem to work up any outrage over celebrating cultural traditions like Easter, Halloween, Christmas and St. Patrick's day. There's a difference between lacking a belief in god and being a cultural Grinch. I'd love to experience Mardi Gras sometime. That doesn't mean I have to pretend that the word "lent" means anything to me.

[onager]

19. Egypt's Weird Spring Holiday

Sham el-Nessim, which literally translates as "smelling the breeze."

Not really that weird, I guess - Egyptians go on picnics and eat, among other things, colored hard-boiled eggs. And a truly vile fish-dish, salted gray mullet. Trust me, you don't want to be smelling the breeze from anyone who's been eating that stuff.

When I lived in Egypt, it was fun to see people out on that holiday. Most went down to the Nile to celebrate with a picnic. Or out in the villages near my workplace, they went down alongside the irrigation canals. Everybody always seemed to be smiling and having a good time, from toddlers to the very elderly.

Why it's sort of weird:
--The holiday goes all the way back to ancient Egypt and has never been Islamicized...
--...even though it became linked with Coptic Christianity after the rise of that religion in Egypt, and is dated from the Coptic Easter holiday
--Egyptian Muslims celebrate it along with everybody else. It's a national holiday.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sham_el-Nessim