Once a Jew, always a Jew?

[DavidDvorkin]

In the U.S.A., six million people call themselves Jews, but 22% of them say they have no religion. Many are atheists. In what sense are they Jews? I say, in no sense at all.

http://www.dvorkin.com/oajew/

[SusanCalvin]

1. I dunno.

I've been an atheist since I knew what the word meant, but there are quite a few Jewish cultural things that I like, and people. Always said if I was anything I'd be Jewish.

[needledriver]

2. We're Jewish enough to go to the ovens.

It doesn't make any difference if you don't bend your neck to the Bronze Age Sky Fairy. If one of your grandparents was Jewish, you were fatally tainted in Aryan eyes.

[Warpy]

3. When my folks first moved to NC

we were eating supper on the screened back porch, where it was a bit cooler. There was a noise inside the house and my dad got up to investigate, followed by my mother, followed by me (of course). There was an old biddy standing in our living room, gawping at the furniture. She turned to my parents and said "Why, you Jews live just like white people do!"

Welcome to Dixie.

I didn't have a clue before that, the surname was a little ambiguous because so many had been forcibly converted across Europe and my mother was Irish.

So yeah, it doesn't take much for an antisemite.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. That's discussed in the book.

[Duppers]

5. My dear friend Ira is an atheist

and Jewish via his Hebrew heritage.

He eats whatever whenever, never attends synagogue or made his kids go, married an Irish woman, etc. His parents were "reformed" before they escaped Poland. He will always be identified as Jewish by his apprearance and name, which is recognized in many film credits, so I'm very proud to know the dear man.

[mountain grammy]

6. If the mother that gives birth to you is Jewish

you're Jewish. That's me and my kids.. Jewish atheists. And with my mother's maiden name of Zuckerman floating around, all our blond hair and blue eyes wouldn't keep us out of the cattle cars.

[DavidDvorkin]

14. Why does that make me Jewish?

In what sense?

As for the Nazis, that argument says that I should call myself a Jew even though I don't consider myself one because the Nazis would have. I should adhere to their theories of race. Nope.

[mountain grammy]

15. Of course it doesn't

Just repeating what I learned from my Jewish mother. my family left Poland before WWII, seeing their share of persecution. They never considered themselves Polish because Poland didn't. They identified themselves as Jewish, more of a race than a religion.

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Assimilation wasn't high in Eastern Europe

Needless to say.

My mother grew up in a Lithuanian shtetl. She left in time, as did some of her siblings, but her mother and the rest of her family died in the Holocaust. They certainly never considered themselves Lithuanians. She sometimes called herself a Litvak, but the way she and others like her used the word, it meant a Lithuanian Jew, as distinguished from Jews from elsewhere, not a Lithuanian.

[AlbertCat]

7. Lordy.... that Jewish thing again.

It's like when someone says Israel is not a religious nation.... but you can't escape that promise their god made to Abraham.... so at it roots it's religious.

You'd think since Hitler used being Jewish as some kind of non-religious category ...a "race"... that Jews would reject it being anything but a religion with traditions.

I don't understand it either.

But anti-semitism is just weird. I got called a "stupid Jew!" and a "kike" in Jr High all the time. I guess because I have a big nose....I dunno. I'm not Jewish at all. We are Scotts.... and supposedly Presbyterians. I pointed this out in astonishment to the bullies and they said "You don't have to lie about it." Wait...what?

Weird.

[DavidDvorkin]

8. I have red hair

(Well, had, back when I had hair.)

Schoolmates would insist I must be at least partly Irish, because apparently those are the only people in the world with red hair.

[progressoid]

9. Dawkins has called himself a 'Cultural Christian'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7136682.stm

Research among Catholics in the Netherlands in 2007 shows that only 27% of the Dutch Catholics can be regarded as theist, 55% as agnostic deist and 17% as agnostic or atheist.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://repub.eur.nl/pub/12890/Dick%2520Houtman%2520_%2520Religie%2520%26%2520Samenleving%25202008.pdf&prev=search

[DavidDvorkin]

10. I know

I think he's being silly.

[progressoid]

11. Sure, but he's not alone.

I know quite a few people who practice none of the actual tenets of Christianity - even losely defined - yet would check the box next to Christian on a questionnaire.

Go figure.

[Rainforestgoddess]

12. Hm, I would check atheist

Yet I love (the secular aspects) of christmas. I know some atheists reject all religious traditions but I don't see a purpose in that. Of course, there's very little "christian" in yule logs, trees, gifts and a feast.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. In this sense that I am of Irish - Jewish heritage.

[edhopper]

17. I am an atheist and a Jew

In Nazi Germany, I would be considered a Jew, (as my family was) no matter my religious beliefs. There is a lot of jewish heritage that is part of me. I don't run away from it.

[DavidDvorkin]

18. I have divested myself of it

Because it no longer applies to me.

[edhopper]

19. That is your choice

My upbringing is still part of me.
Do you have a problem with other atheist who still consider themselves Jews?

[DavidDvorkin]

21. Yes

That's why I wrote the book. I think they should ask themselves what they mean by calling themselves Jews. What distinguishes them from an atheist who does not have Jewish ancestry?

[edhopper]

22. Nazi ovens

[DavidDvorkin]

23. A remarkably common and utterly silly response.

[edhopper]

24. Thank you for the oh so condescending remark

you are obviously of superior intellect and actualization and all need to follow exactly what you think about their heritage.

[DavidDvorkin]

25. That the response is remarkably common is a simple factual observation

I've heard it for decades from many different people.

I discuss at great length in the book why I think it's silly. The book, and some of the essays on my Web site, are my observations on these matters, the result of many decades of observation and thought. Nowhere have I issued any orders. I have instead expressed my opinion, strongly in many cases. Do you always condemn people for doing all of the above, or only in this case?

[edhopper]

26. Only when they say their opinion is the only right one

and all others are silly. You did not simply express your opinion, it is you sir, who condemned. it is you who said you have a problems with people who differ.
If you ahve ever been the victim of antisemitism, you would know your beliefs are immaterial to those who hate you.
But keep up the "I am right, all others are wrong' stand. It will serve you well.

Bye, I have nothing left to add.

[DavidDvorkin]

27. What makes you assume that I have never experienced anti-semitism?

[beam me up scottie]

28. You have far more patience than I do.

Dismissing your opinion as "silly" tells you eveything you need to know about their "interest" in other's opinions.

I'm sure their book is fascinating.

[edhopper]

29. My patience did run out.

[beam me up scottie]

30. I wouldn't have lasted half as long.

And I probably would've ended up with a hidden post.

[DavidDvorkin]

20. I should have said, I left it behind.