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Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
Fri Apr 1, 2016, 11:55 PM Apr 2016

I have a stupid question

I've read up a lot about religion and philosophy, but I've never understood the "thou shalt not tempt the lord thy God" thing. What does this mean? Does it mean you shouldn't walk on a ledge, thinking God will save you? Or is it a jinx thing? Maybe it means you shouldn't stand on a boat and say out loud something like "this can never sink!" (?) I just don't get it.

I know, I'm trying to make sense of the nonsensical. Still, I'd value your comments.

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I have a stupid question (Original Post) Freelancer Apr 2016 OP
You shouldn't offer him apples Lordquinton Apr 2016 #1
Where was that one? Warpy Apr 2016 #2
I've been around for 60 years Cartoonist Apr 2016 #3
It's something JC said. I googled it. It's in Deuteronomy chapter of the Bible -nt Freelancer Apr 2016 #10
You might try asking over in the Religion group. mr blur Apr 2016 #4
! rurallib Apr 2016 #15
So I had to look this up kdmorris Apr 2016 #5
Luke 4:12, and Deut 6:16 Brainstormy Apr 2016 #6
Yeah, that's fairly sad kdmorris Apr 2016 #7
Following up that first Deut reference, it means "shut up and don't complain, even if you're dying muriel_volestrangler Apr 2016 #16
I've asked Christians before, and they don't know. I get a lot of gobbledygook. -nt Freelancer Apr 2016 #8
Sorry for being cranky, man kdmorris Apr 2016 #9
No problem. Ever wonder about snake handlers youth ministry? What would that be like? Freelancer Apr 2016 #11
LOL n/t kdmorris Apr 2016 #12
Well, I guess I have a stupid answer for you. Curmudgeoness Apr 2016 #13
There's some real heaviness in that one link -- a lot to unpack. Ugh. -nt Freelancer Apr 2016 #17
You ask. You get an answer. Curmudgeoness Apr 2016 #18
I think I get it... Freelancer Apr 2016 #20
Blind faith, babe! nt Curmudgeoness Apr 2016 #23
does anyone remember the episode of mash restorefreedom Apr 2016 #14
I don't remember that one. There is one quote that has always stayed with me, though. Freelancer Apr 2016 #19
classic! burns had some great zingers. nt restorefreedom Apr 2016 #21
"Don't put God into a situation where he has to obey rules." DetlefK Apr 2016 #22
Off Topic awoke_in_2003 Apr 2016 #24
"Don't you fucking test me. Don't you ever fucking test me." Iggo Apr 2016 #25

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
1. You shouldn't offer him apples
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 12:19 AM
Apr 2016

Temptation is God's job, he does it all the time, the Lord's prayer even includes "lead us not into temptation" it's really perverse when you think about it, God always trying to trick you into going to hell.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
2. Where was that one?
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 03:48 AM
Apr 2016

I don't recall it from any of the top ten lists in either the KJV or Douay.

Whether it was made up by some ancient priest or some modern preacher, it doesn't rise to the level of a commandment. It sounds like what a parent would tell a fully propagandized child as a way to discourage him from doing something risky and stupid.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
4. You might try asking over in the Religion group.
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 07:53 AM
Apr 2016

Some of them are very good at explaining the nonsensical as if it actually meant something. After all, they get a lot of practice.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
5. So I had to look this up
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 09:09 AM
Apr 2016

And the only reference I see is to the 40 days where Jesus was wandering around in the desert being tempted by the Devil.

Roughly translated, it appears that it's basically a statement that the devil can't tempt him.

Seems to me that, in context, it makes perfect sense.

Question for you: Why are you asking Atheists/Agnostics to translate the bible for you?

Brainstormy

(2,428 posts)
6. Luke 4:12, and Deut 6:16
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 11:17 AM
Apr 2016

It's there. Don' t tease Jeebus. And your last question: Most atheists know a great deal more about the Bible than practicing Christians do.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
7. Yeah, that's fairly sad
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 11:53 AM
Apr 2016

You're probably right.

I didn't find the one in Deut, but goes to show how much attention I pay to the bible these days!

muriel_volestrangler

(102,483 posts)
16. Following up that first Deut reference, it means "shut up and don't complain, even if you're dying
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 07:35 AM
Apr 2016

thanks to following the orders of God".

Deuteronomy 6:14-16 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah.

What happened at Massah?

Exodus 17:3-7 But the people were thirsty for water there, and they grumbled against Moses. They said, “Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to make us and our children and livestock die of thirst?”

Then Moses cried out to the Lord, “What am I to do with these people? They are almost ready to stone me.”

The Lord answered Moses, “Go out in front of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the Lord saying, “Is the Lord among us or not?”

So the myth is that God told the Israelites to go into the desert, and that he would look after them. They obeyed, but found themselves dying of thirst. Asking for water to stay alive was the wrong thing to do at that point; that was asking God to prove that he exists, or that he cares, and one must never do that. God, being the type to hold a grudge, remembers it forever.

kdmorris

(5,649 posts)
9. Sorry for being cranky, man
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 12:00 PM
Apr 2016

I ended up being atheist because Christian youth ministers could never answer my questions.

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
11. No problem. Ever wonder about snake handlers youth ministry? What would that be like?
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 12:22 PM
Apr 2016

Start the kids off with earthworms, and then move them up to garter snakes?

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
17. There's some real heaviness in that one link -- a lot to unpack. Ugh. -nt
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 06:00 PM
Apr 2016

There's a feeling of heaviness that descends when you read it.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
18. You ask. You get an answer.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 06:51 PM
Apr 2016

I never said that the answer would make sense. Or be easy.

The easy answer would be that it is all your fault that God is not answering your prayers, or when bad shit happens to you. Don't try to push God into anything. He will do it in his own time. Or not.

Is that easy enough?

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
20. I think I get it...
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:11 AM
Apr 2016

If a human needs proof of the big G, they're shit-out-of-luck, and probably going to hell for it.

That sound about right?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
14. does anyone remember the episode of mash
Sat Apr 2, 2016, 06:27 PM
Apr 2016

when a patient said he was jesus, and frank burns said he "tested" him by praying for chocolate pudding at lunch?

the passage refers to when satan transported jesus to a high place (the top of a temple maybe) and told him to throw himself down and that God would catch him. the above quote was jesus's reply.

basically, don't device a test explicitily to prove the existence or power of God. as a former catholic, that is the gist I think.

it is also repeated in Luke

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
19. I don't remember that one. There is one quote that has always stayed with me, though.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:04 AM
Apr 2016

Burns said something to the effect of "unless we follow our leaders without question, how can we possibly hope to remain free?"

Excellent.

DetlefK

(16,455 posts)
22. "Don't put God into a situation where he has to obey rules."
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:00 AM
Apr 2016

Lucifer tempting God in the desert consists of 3 trials.

Lucifer challenges Jesus to turn rocks into bread. Jesus says it doesn't work that way. (It would only satisfy his bodily hunger, not his spiritual hunger, so he doesn't do it at all.)

Lucifer brings Jesus to a high place and challenges him to jump and have god save him. Jesus says it doesn't work that way. (Don't tempt God.)

Lucifer offers Jesus rulership over Earth if he switches sides. Jesus tells him to go away. (I find it really strange that Jesus doesn't call Lucifer a liar for that. How could Lucifer possibly offer Jesus this rulership??? Doesn't this implicitly mean that Lucifer really has the power to decide who rules Earth???)

A truly glorious victory for Jesus...





Don't tempt God. I read it as "don't put God into a situation where he has to obey rules".

1. I think, this somehow defines God as untestable. You cannot and shalt not try to find out more about God by doing experiments on God.

2. God is the Supreme Being. He is not bound by laws of nature. (Well, the concept of laws of nature was pretty convoluted back then.) He is only bound by his own will. If you set up a scenario where God has to decide between option A and option B, you are denying that God can do whatever he wants. You are forcing him into a situation where you decide what he can do. You are implicitly denying that God is the Supreme being.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
24. Off Topic
Fri Apr 8, 2016, 08:39 PM
Apr 2016

but every time I see "I have a stupid question" I am tempted to say "Well, I've got a stupid answer"

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