This message was self-deleted by its author

[guillaumeb]

This message was self-deleted by its author (guillaumeb) on Thu Mar 9, 2017, 06:19 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[dchill]

1. Fuck it.

[guillaumeb]

3. Avoiding all religious connotations.

And all of the variants as well?

[dchill]

5. No, goddamn it, just fuck it!

Atheists don't have to observe religious sensibilities. AFAIK, religiosos aren't allowed to swear, anyway. It's a free country, so fuck it, goddamn it. Jesus H. Christ!

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Personally, enough to make a sailor blush and to make Dorothy Parker break into tears.

[guillaumeb]

4. What an interesting answer.

Dorothy Parker did have a way with words, judging by the little by her that I have read.

[PJMcK]

6. It's simple

I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

ETA: I know this is a concept that is foreign to Republicans.

[guillaumeb]

7. Do you say the common ending?

I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth............so help me.........?

Personally, I affirm to tell the truth. That is always accepted.

For the GOP, truth is synonymous with "whatever serves my interests at this moment".

[PJMcK]

9. I'll stand by the exact words I wrote above (wink, n/t)

[unblock]

8. Omng!

[guillaumeb]

10. I never thought of that response. eom

[True Dough]

11. As an atheist

I like to mix it up. I'll toss around the f*cks and shits, sometimes just for shits and giggles.

But I don't consider the use of god damn or Jesus (or Jesus Christ) off limits. Even though I'm not a believer, they are ingrained in my lexicon and sometimes naturally pass my lips in frustration.

As a kid, I remember my father periodically saying, "Jesus Marion Joseph" while angry. It made me wonder if those were Jesus's middle names. Then I came to learn that it was just dad slurring the words "Mary and," so it was really "Jesus, Mary and Joseph."

[guillaumeb]

12. And your response shows how much language reflects beliefs.

That certain phrases are so ingrained that everyone uses them.

I had no idea that Marion was Jesus' middle name.

[dchill]

27. It wasn't. All I know is...

It started with an "H."

[Warpy]

13. "Shit, hell and damnation" were favorites when I was growing up

and if my mother thought she'd been overheard (but was really out of fucks to give), it was "SHIT!....and two make eight." Her disgust with fluttery church ladies was expressed by "she wouldn't say 'shit' if she had a mouth full of it."

My mother had no patience for ladies who objected to language, said they were obvious frauds because no real lady would ever admit to knowing what the words meant.

In my experience, most of us atheists will use the god stuff in swearing. It just lacks the sting it has when delivered by a believer. Lacking gods to damn or hells to damn them to, it just becomes an academic exercise.

[guillaumeb]

15. An academic exercise or a linguistic habit.

I think that even for most believers swearing is something that is done purely as an expression.

In our town, my grandfather's favorite expressions (in French) were more centered around religious language.

[MedusaX]

14. Eye of the beholder...

Those who embrace religious beliefs will assign meaning to words based on their religious beliefs...

hence, even the use of the term "swear words" would most likely be by those who embrace religious beliefs .... rather than by those who do not embrace religious beliefs.

those who do not embrace religious beliefs recognize that these exclamatory expressions originated from religiously based terminology / meanings...
however, do not themselves define or use the exclamatory expressions in terms of religious concepts....
the exclamations are used as expressions of emotional intensity associated with an event, situation, or circumstance
just as "ouch" is an exclamatory expression indicative of experiencing physical pain.

Much the same as those who embrace religious beliefs assign meaning & significance to books such as the Bible, Koran, etc based on their personal beliefs...

Those who do not embrace religious beliefs recognize that the content of those books reflects the teachings of a given theologically based set of beliefs...
but do not themselves assign any significance to the books beyond that of any other piece of literature.

[guillaumeb]

16. An excellent response.

Swearing as an emotional relief or an outlet.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. People were still saying "by Jove" in the 19th century, no?

Not too many of them actually believed in Jupiter the "God"

[guillaumeb]

20. By Jove I think you are onto something here. eom

[Warren DeMontague]

17. If I needed to take an oath of office (not likely, but still) I would swear on the

U.S. Constitution.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

19. Any goddamn way we want

For example, if I was talking to my Mormon neighbor, it would go something like this:

"Please, and with all due haste, go fuck yourself thoroughly and with extreme prejudice. In fact, fuck yourself, your dopey, bronze age, backward ass religious beliefs, you arrogant fucking prick, fucking god damn it"

[guillaumeb]

21. Making me glad Im a not your Mormon neighbor.

But when everything collapses, remember that he probably has a lot of food stocked in his basement.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. That's okay

When he's done eating the food, I'll have him, his wife and their 83 kids to dine on.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. You'll need one of these....

if you decide to cook them all at once. Unless you quarter them out and freeze them.



Babies first, you know and don't forget to rotate your stock.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

24. Gonna need a lot of oil

Better put that on my shopping list.

[A HERETIC I AM]

25. I got ya a couple barrels

[EvolveOrConvolve]

26. My mouth

is watering already.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Now I'm hungry.

I think I'll go bore a Jainist to death and make a casserole.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

30. There's probably a Catholic church in your area

You could just stop in for an evening mass. I heard the wafers turn to actual flesh and the wine to blood. Unfortunately the dude's been dead for a couple thousand years so the flesh is probably pretty rank - just make sure to use lots of A1 sauce.

[guillaumeb]

33. I am glad to be a vegetarian.

If I am ever a guest in your house, remind me not to eat the stew.

[catbyte]

28. an atheist & use goddamned all the time. It conveys disgust without going right to fuck

[guillaumeb]

32. Moderation in all things.

[5X]

31. With Gusto and abandon! n/t

[warmfeet]

34. How do atheists swear?

God damn it all to hell. Sorry about the language, being my first post and all. Born again atheist here.

[guillaumeb]

35. Welcome to DU born again atheist.

I am a Christian, but one birth was enough for me. I still remember the experience.

[True Dough]

37. Welcome to the DU!

Your feet are bound to be warm in the afterlife with your atheist beliefs!


P.S. I'm a fellow atheist, so you'll be in mediocre company, at least!

[guillaumeb]

38. What afterlife?

Do atheists believe in an afterlife?

[True Dough]

40. Twas a joke n/t

[guillaumeb]

41. I know. Well, actually I assumed that it was a joke.

But if Buddhists can believe in rebirth, it is plausible that some atheists might have similar beliefs.

[Goblinmonger]

52. I don't think anything about atheism prevents

a belief about rebirth or an afterlife.

Atheism is just simply a lack of belief in a god. Afterlife could be a multiverse.

[guillaumeb]

53. And if there is rebirth, that echoes the Biblical idea,

not limited of course to the Bible, of an afterlife.

[TBA]

36. How the fuck do I know?

[guillaumeb]

39. What DO you know?

And how do you know that you truly know it?
Perhaps you are merely imagining that you know whatever it is that you appear to know.

[TBA]

42. I've had too much bourbon to make sense of you reply.

[guillaumeb]

43. No problem. I cannot understand it either and I am not drinking. eom

[trotsky]

44. Do you have a point?

Be up front with it then. For fuck's sake.

[guillaumeb]

45. Curiosity.

And, as I mentioned, culture influences language, so if religion is common to human culture, it is interesting to see how religious terms are used by even the non-religious.

[trotsky]

46. Yeah, religion is common to human culture.

Doesn't make religious beliefs valid, though.

Rape and violence have been common to human culture as well. Doesn't mean we should venerate those things either.

[Brainstormy]

47. I use all of them

However, when I catch myself saying, OH, God, or My God, especially in front of folks who know I'm a heathen, I usually add, "It's a figure of speech."

[guillaumeb]

48. It is a figure of speech, but conditioning is difficult to overcome. eom

[edhopper]

49. Did you know

that the weekly and monthly calendar reflects belief in the pantheon of gods from different areas of older European civilizations.
Yet God fearing Christians today still use them.
Interesting.

[Heddi]

50. HOW DO CHRISTIANS REFER TO DAYS OF THE WEEK

Certainly not by using the dead, mythological, fake GREEK AND ROMAN GODSSSsss!!!!11!!1eleventy!1!

[guillaumeb]

51. I do. And as proof:

Lundi: moon's day
Mardi: Mars (Roman god of war)day
Mercredi: A day for Mercury
Jeudi: day of Jove
Vendredi: market day and Venus day
Samedi: Sabbath day,
Dimanche: the Lord's day

So yes, I am aware in both of my principal languages of the root meanings. And, as I pointed out above, I mentioned that history frames how we speak even as that history might no longer be relevant.

[edhopper]

54. So why is it a big deal to you

if an atheist says Goddamn or Jesus fucking Christ?

I also say Fuck You to people and don't intend a connection with the actual physical act.

Are you coming here to this atheist forum to point out that religion has had a great influence on our culture and society?

As if we didn't see that every goddamn fucking day in this god forsaken country.

[guillaumeb]

55. Curiosity.

Why are you making a big deal out of a question?

IS the forum not open to dialogue, similar to the Religion forum, or is it restricted to certain viewpoints?

[edhopper]

56. Curious about what

that atheists' non belief affects their cursing?

Curious thing to be curious about.

I hope your curiosity has been satisfied.

[guillaumeb]

57. No, curious and interested in how culture affects language.

And religion is an integral part of most cultures. So it affects even speech.

[edhopper]

58. Yes

religion has a far to great influence on society and culture.

It is one of the great weaknesses of mankind.

[guillaumeb]

59. An inherent weakness, or an acquired one?

That could be an interesting debate.

[edhopper]

60. That is an interesting question

I think religion is a social construct made possible by varied genetic predisposition in humans.

[guillaumeb]

61. And that topic would make a nice post. eom

[Doreen]

86. I have a new one we should say, Jesus Fucking Trump.

OK, is that bad enough? You could actually say any name first then Fucking Trump. Oh, even better Spicer Fucking Trump.

[edhopper]

87. check my signature

[Doreen]

89. Ah, yes.

[Jokerman]

62. With some sense of irony.

I remember being fascinated as an adolescent that "god dammit" would get me into trouble while the bastardization "gosh darn it" could slide by.

It eventually became one of those many things that bothered me about religion. Surely god knows what I really mean. All I'm doing by saying slightly different words is placating people who were using their "god" as a threat to control my behavior.

I will say that having to watch my language, which meant not using the words dad taught me around mom, I developed a pretty good filter that allows me to hold a civil work conversation then turn around a swear up a blue streak with my friends.

[guillaumeb]

64. I liked the comment about irony.

But, as others have noted, using the word fuck does not imply a sexual component.

And politeness is one reason that I was taught not to swear in normal conversation.

[OriginalGeek]

93. The first time I heard my daughter say "Shit" I about peed myself laughing

she was probably 12 or so and had just died in a video game for the millionth time and just hollered "SHIT!" and then looked around and got this kinda scared look when she realized it was me laughing.

I told her I didn't give a fuck what swear words she said as long as she remembered not in front of grandma and maybe take it easy on her mom.

We've had fun cussing ever since.

I have an incredibly foul mouth but I can usually maintain in mixed company - and by mixed company I mean "any people I don't know well enough to know if they are cool with my fucking mouth"

I remember day care teachers washing my mouth out with dish soap. Fuck them. They didn't clean up a goddamned thing. I remember getting beat by my stepfather when he overheard me say the same fuckin shit he said almost every day. Particularly fuck that motherfucker. Hypocritical piece of shit can go fuck himself right in his tear duct.

[edhopper]

63. Of course the larger issue

is why does the master of all creation give two fucks if someone takes his name in vain.

Ferchristsake, he is more thin skinned than Trump.

His commandments on how to behave start with me, me ,me.

What a wanker.

[guillaumeb]

65. Could anything be more thin-skinned than Trump?

Saran wrap is much thicker than Trump's skin.

[edhopper]

66. From the Old Testament

it seems God is.

A petty, vengeful God, who cannot handle any descent or criticism.

[guillaumeb]

67. Jesus was asked, "Lord, how many times must we forgive?".

And he replied essentially that forgiveness has no limits.

[edhopper]

68. So somewhere between

4 BCE and 33 ACE in a backward area of the Middle East, God completely changed his nature and personality?

After 14 billion years he decided to not be an asshole because somehow he learned something walking around with people that his omnipotence didn't clue him in on?

Sounds reasonable.

[guillaumeb]

69. An interesting framing.

Somewhere between 4BCE and 1543CE, science went from an earth centered view of the solar system to a sun centered view. The solar system did not change, but human understanding did.

So if we look at your framing in this way, we can arrive at a different result.

[edhopper]

71. So none of the stories in the OT are true

none have any verisimilitude?

The God that acted from Adam to the Kingdom of Israel wasn't real?

The Ten Commandments aren't really from God and none of those people that the Bible clams talked with God really happened.

If so, why should the NT be any more true.

I can clearly delineate why the sun centered Solar System is a fact.

Looking at religion around the world, there is no justification to accept any claim.


You just accept one part of the story and reject other parts that others believe with equal fervor.

Science is not a belief system, it is an evidence based process.

[guillaumeb]

73. Anyone is free to read any book and arrive at an interpretation.

Some read the Bible literally in every word, some read it mainly metaphorically.

[edhopper]

74. How much of the NT

do you take literally?
Virgin birth? Nativity story? Miracles? Rising from the tomb?

And in science, people aren't free to just accept Ptolemy and reject Copernicus.

[guillaumeb]

75. Again, some read it metaphorically.

And this question has been discussed in the religion group.

Briefly, I take the message of Jesus as the important part.

[edhopper]

76. Why won't you answer my

specific questions.

You came here to talk, so talk about it here.

[guillaumeb]

78. I did answer. eom

[edhopper]

84. No

you gave an obscure bullshit answer

Again, some read it metaphorically.

And this question has been discussed in the religion group.

Briefly, I take the message of Jesus as the important part.

So what, you don't accept that any of the story of Jesus happened, you just like the message?

What do you take as metaphor and what was true?

[guillaumeb]

85. I accept that Jesus was a real person

who lived in the area of Jerusalem.

And 2000 years later, his words are still important.

[edhopper]

88. But not God

or the son of God?

[guillaumeb]

90. Are we all not children of the Creator?

[edhopper]

91. No,

there was no creator, but that bullshit "answer with a question" doesn't fly here.

So you obviously can't be straight forward.

Done now, have a good day.

[uriel1972]

70. Any way they please...

Because of the taboo nature of swear words they will reflect the taboos of the surrounding culture. I say Jesus H Christ because of the 'taboo' present in my anglo culture. "Buddha's bunions" or somesuch doesn't have the same friction for me because it wasn't part of my upbringing.

The total hypocrisy of odd's bods and the like puzzles me, as we know what it is meant to be, which sort of defeats the purpose.

[guillaumeb]

72. Agreed. Culture influences every aspect of life.

Even swearing.

[Faux pas]

77. Being an atheist myself,

I swear with no holds barred, letting it rip and getting it out of my system. Ah, so cleansing!

[guillaumeb]

80. Cleansing. Always good to feel clean.

Thank you.

[Faux pas]

92. You're welcome!

Always remember and never forget....out with the negative in with the positive.

[Eliot Rosewater]

79. Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder, for instance I find this terribly obscene

[guillaumeb]

81. It IS obscene.

Especially in a very rich country where a few billionaires have more money that the bottom 40% of workers.

[Eliot Rosewater]

82. Worse is half the country just voted to make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

Half the country thinks if you own a refrigerator you cant be poor.

Half the country wants poor people to go without healthcare.

WANTS this, they actually WANT that.

We dont deserve this country, it is far too beautiful and wonderful for half of us, and the other half of us dont deserve it if we dont stop this madness.

[guillaumeb]

83. And........................

if you own a cellphone, you are choosing to suffer if you get sick.