"by the grace of God" she said

[RussBLib]

Did any of you hear what Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the United States' Ambassador to the United Nations, said to the UN, this morning after Russia attacked, and seized, Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant?

"By the grace of God, the world narrowly averted a nuclear catastrophe last night."

That comment rubs me the wrong way. What? Did god intervene to stop the plant from melting down? Please tell me more. Did god change the minds of the Russians who were shooting at the plant?

And what are you going to say, Ambassador, if the nuclear plant actually does melt down? Did god change his mind again? Fooled you again, believer!

And why hasn't god intervened to slap down Putin in the first place? Is he too busy?

There are a million ways to respond to such a potential catastrophe, and I am disappointed that our top "statesman" resorted to invoking god, as if he has anything to do with anything. By the grace of God, we didn't have another Chernobyl! Oh, by the way, why didn't he stop Chernobyl when he had the chance?

You may say, oh it's just a figure of speech. Yes, it is, a very cliche, empty, and meaningless figure of speech.

What next? Is she going to say that god was plucking Russian missiles out of the air and making them disappear before they could explode onto parts of Ukraine, the way a US televangelist said the other day? It's just a short skip and a hop.

And then she still pronounces nuclear "noo-kya-ler" a la Shrubya Bush. Hoo boy.

[elleng]

1. Yes, I heard it, and I tend to agree, but it has meaning to her, so I won't complain too loudly;

she has a difficult job.

[MontanaMama]

2. +1

I heard it as well. These are trying times. I can’t imagine where those in the heat of battle are finding their strength.

[RussBLib]

3. I would not want her job

that's fer damn sure.

But I detect no fire in her words. They lulled me almost to sleep. Maybe I was already needing a nap.

And why would we expect Putin to respect this international norm/law of nuclear safety when he has already violated so many others?

[elleng]

4. We don't expect him to respect anything, just one of our problems.

[RussBLib]

5. I always chuckle sardonically when I hear...

... people talking about "the laws of war." In the middle of mayhem and an up-close look at man's perpetual inhumanity to man, we expect people to behave compassionately. Some might.

Sorry, I am feeling distraught at what is happening in Ukraine and I have been venting here and there.

[Karadeniz]

6. Christians have been taught that God interferes in wordly affairs, a stance contraindicated in the

gospels. I wish they'd just leave God out of official business.

[RussBLib]

7. yo tambien, amigo nt

[CommonHumanity]

8. I'm an atheist and use that phrase

I'm just one person, but I use it. Metaphorically I suppose, but it is a phrase that I use to convey a sense of great good unfathomable luck that is beyond measure.

[RussBLib]

9. I get that, but

maybe it should not be used when, quite possibly within the very next day or two, your assertion, or expression, or sense of great good unfathomable luck could be countered or reversed, with horrifying consequences. And the nebulous god that you just praised just betrayed you. Again.

[CommonHumanity]

12. I'm sorry but I disagree

Language has subtleties and nuances and we use known words to convey known concepts. I'm not sure saying those words in that context equates with horrifying consequences, but maybe you are right. I may have to ponder your response. That said, the harms caused by religion are countless and I am not sure that particular reference to "God" is a priority battlefront. As I said, I'll ponder it.

A slight tangent here, but speaking personally:

My use of the phrase "God" in a metaphorical way has helped to build bridges with my religious friends. This is not a matter of capitulating. I always explain that I do not mean "God" literally, but I do think it helps to convey a similar understanding of the divine and the random luck we sometimes call grace. In particular, I have been known to use the phrase "there but for the grace of God go I" (again always with the caveat that my mention of God is not literal). I think sharing the phrase in this way, again with caveats, helps believers understand that an understanding of the precious and precarious nature of life, our blessings and the grace that sometimes befalls us are not the exclusive province of believers. I have yet to find another known and historic grouping of words that better expresses our commonality and the need to walk in the shoes of another before casting judgment. If the world could live by this phrase a lot of problems would be solved and I wouldn't care what belief system lay behind the words. Suggestions regaring a better way to convey this healing truth are welcome. I mean it and am not being snarky. So far the "walk a mile in their shoes", just doesn't express it with the same eloquence. Anyway, as Beau from the 5th column says "just some thoughts".

[RussBLib]

13. thanks for the thoughtful post

let me try it this way...bear with me?

Scenario 1:
You are driving down a road with your spouse, your 2 kids and your 2 pets. It's raining, your car hydroplanes, runs off the road and rolls over 3 times in a field. Everyone inside, including your pets, is miraculously uninjured.

I could certainly understand, and would not complain about, you using the "grace of God" phrase here. Chances are close to zero that the same circumstance would happen again anytime soon. Probably never.

Scenario 2:
Russian soldiers are closing in on a Ukrainian nuclear power plant. They launch a few rockets and a hail of gunfire at the plant. A fire breaks out in one building on the site. The fire is put out but the world is afraid the nuclear plant might meltdown. This is a war zone. Tanks, rockets, missiles, planes, everywhere, this is chaos. We don't know the Russians' ultimate intent. They might WANT to cause a meltdown, for all we know.

So the likelihood of an actual meltdown is still very much a possibility, very unlike Scenario 1.

That's really all I was saying. This is a bad spot to express any thanks to God, especially considering that the plant could meltdown at any time going forward.

And I doubt she means "god" in the same rather generalized sense that you seem to mean. Hey, maybe she is an atheist too, but uses familiar language to communicate.

Oh, and by the way, I am in no way suggesting that we treat the Ambassador's usage of the word God in this context as a "priority battleground." I, personally, find it inappropriate in this context, but I would not call in to C-SPAN to bitch about it and hope no one does either.

damn nuance

[CommonHumanity]

14. Thanks to your even more thoughtful reply

Thanks for taking the time to write your reply and your thoughtful examples. You've actually thought it through much more concisely and logically than I had. You're a very clear thinker and your reply is an inspiration to fine-tune my own thinking. I tend to be more a big picture thinker and am shitty with the finer points. This has its strengths, but can also be sloppy.

Anyway, I understand your argument and that you are not suggesting it as a "priority battleground" and I most definitely see your point re the difference in the examples provided.

Guess I just don't personally object to the term in some instances and was also defending my select use of the word. My feeling is that there are so many things about religion that could use dismantling and so many bridges to build. I feel careful about creating new battle lines over particular words. Liberals are already accused by propagandists of banning XMas. All we need is for them to get on a roll about us banning the word God. In that context, I feel cautious about taking objection to terms considered sacred to some and I just tend to roll with it.

Yes, damn nuance.

[3catwoman3]

10. I grit my teeth every time someone attributes a favorable event...

…to the god they believe in, be it sports victories, recoveries from illnesses, a house being spared from fires or tornados, whatever. If there truly were a loving god, surely he/she/it would smite Putin and everyone like him.

And the “nu-cu-ler” thing made me shout out loud while watching. There are many mispronunciations that bug me. This one in particular irritates the hell out of me. “New-klee-err” - it’s not hard.

[NNadir]

11. I personally regard this as a linguistic cliche.

I sometimes use the term, "God knows" without reference to actually believing there is an omniscient all knowing being.

It is, however, interesting to me that everyone has a shit fit about the nuclear plant, which actually didn't kill anyone, whereas they hardly get as upset about the use of dangerous fossil fuel based weapons to destroy buildings and people, but that's another topic.

In terms of death tolls, the attacks by the savages on buildings has actually killed far more people than the attacks on the nuclear plant.

[old as dirt]

15. I guess that I'm not seeing the problem.

When I get a sneeze attack, my wife will sometimes bless me.

It doesn't always stop the sneeze attack, unfortunately.

[RussBLib]

16. it's not a "problem"

and sneezing is a little different than a nuclear plant meltdown

[old as dirt]

17. You've obviously never seen one of my sneeze attacks.

and sneezing is a little different than a nuclear plant meltdown

[RussBLib]

18. I know they can be violent

my doc insists "open your mouth" to sneeze, and of course, into your tissue or hand or sleeve or towel, etc. Keeping your mouth closed can mess up your sinuses.

My nephew sneezes 8-10 times in rapid succession, all with mouth closed. Bizarre.