2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL: The Bernie Sanders voters who would choose Trump over Clinton
WOW! This NEVER occurred to me. Yikes!
___________________________________________________________________
in this most bizarre of presidential election cycles, every day seems to bring another jaw-dropping development. Donald Trump on the size of his genitals, Ben Carson and the Egyptian pyramids, Bernie Sanders’ socialist revolution, Hillary Clinton and the cloth she used to wipe her private email server clean.
But it’s not just the candidates who have raised eyebrows in 2016.
It's not over til it's over: inside the Sanders campaign's do-or-die moment
Read more
The latest startling phenomenon is the voter who is feeling the Bern, but also has eyes for the Donald.
This week the Guardian sought out Sanders fans who are contemplating switching their allegiance to Trump if Hillary Clinton secures the Democratic nomination.
Almost 700 people replied to the call-out, and some 500 of them said they were thinking the unthinkable: a Sanders-Trump switch.
MORE: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/13/bernie-sanders-supporters-consider-donald-trump-no-hillary-clinton
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bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Anyone who votes for Trump over Clinton is a damned moron.
Voting for that man cannot be justified.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)It's all those people who are not here. All the people who are tired of the same old, same old.
To them, Hillary is just more of the "same old." And that's what may bite us in the ass come November.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)Don't get me wrong. I would never vote for Trump (or ANY of the GOP candidates!) but, why the Democratic party seems so hellbent on nominating the ultimate Washington insider, who has more baggage than a fully loaded 747, to run in the climate of change baffles me.
I guess we'll see how it works out in a few months.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I will NEVER vote for the Queen. People don't like her, the Clinton's cheat and lie. If the law can't do anything about poll visiting, we ALL have the power to say something about it come Nov. Bernie or Bust!!!!
This is another reason to vote for Bernie for the nom. At least we'll have those lost votes that the Queen will never get.
LonePirate
(13,947 posts)
BeyondGeography
(40,111 posts)So they're going evil.
WhiteTara
(30,262 posts)what the greater evil looks like. Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result...Einstein
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)It's time for Bernie so we don't do the same thing again and expect different results.
brush
(58,293 posts)brush
(58,293 posts)If you like Sanders why vote for a neo-fascist whose stands on issues are the exact opposite of Sanders'.
Pure idiocy.
redwitch
(15,102 posts)Ugh.
Response to brush (Reply #112)
Name removed Message auto-removed
brush
(58,293 posts)
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)about rounding up millions and deporting them?
I could list a lot of fascist things Trump or Cruz will try to do and it wont matter to you , will it.
Sick...
makes me sick...
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)is who you are counting on to see the wisdom of Hillary versus Trump?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apprentice_(U.S._season_1)
The Apprentice
The first season of The Apprentice (later called The Apprentice 1) aired on NBC in the winter and spring of 2004. It is now available on DVD. It features 16 candidates.
This season was a ratings smash, ranking at No. 7 in the average weekly Nielsen Rankings, with an average viewership of 20.7 million viewers each week. The final episode of the season was seen by an estimated 28.05 million viewers and ranked as the No. 1 show of the week, beating out a new episode of CSI. It was the most popular new show of 2004.
Believe it or not, the 1990s "reality show" of "Bill & Hillary & Monica - the Sex Scandal" DID NOT ENDEAR THE FIRST FAMILY TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, nor have the sequels been fun to watch, either. They are a national embarrassment.
revbones
(3,660 posts)In particular, personally I feel that anyone voting for her is a moron - to use your vernacular. I'm sure there are others that feel the same.
Nickel79
(81 posts)I'm sorry, I hate Trump too. But I cannot vote for someone involved in this:
http://www.thenation.com/article/the-clinton-backed-honduran-regime-is-picking-off-indigenous-leaders/
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That's why we like Bernie - he's smart.
The voters who would want Trump would be those who hate the system and the way it is rigged. Beyond that true Bernie voters and them have little in common.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 17, 2016, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)
i know some of these guys. they assume all politicians are crooks and they're getting shafted. they don't go too deep politically, so if it's not Bernie then it's the other guy who "tells it like it is"
on edit: adding that i also know some very caring, intelligent and well informed blue collar guys as well - not broad brushing
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)It would be a logical conclusion.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)
griffi94
(3,830 posts)were for Ron Paul last time.
They're mostly Libertarians and when Paul didn't win the nomination
they didn't vote.
I expect that if Trump doesn't win the nomination they won't vote this time either.
I'm sure some of Bernies supporters are the same.
It's the anti-establishment or else demographic.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)It is a herd mentality. They are like Bernie's fans in that they blame every bad thing in their lives on some outside force that is screwing them over.
They want to get even. To Bernie folks it is the 1%, Wall Street, the big banks, the oligarchs, the DLC, the DNC, DWS, the media, the Clintons, yada yada yada.
To the Trump fans it's the immigrants, the liberals, Obama, the islamo fascists, the Mexicans, the lazy takers, the minorities yada yada yada.
revbones
(3,660 posts)They blame every bad thing on some outside force as well! The vast right-wing conspiracy!
griffi94
(3,830 posts)They don't so much want to change things as much as they
want to blow things completely out of the water.
I'm pretty confident tho that they're a small minority. The Bernie supporters that are like that
I mean.
Most of them will vote for whoever our nominee is and the ones that don't
aren't big enough in number to matter.
Think of it as the impotent rage of really tiny mob.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Never mind that the jobs that used to pay a living wage now pay half that....And that's even if there is a "decent" job where one lives instead of shuttered factories and retailers driven out of business by Wal Mart.
Rush would approve of that "blame the victim" strategy.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)griffi94
(3,830 posts)The group of people that I know who voted for Paul last time and are
voting for Trump this time?
Or the Bernie supporters who have said they're voting anti-establishment.
Don't worry. Neither group is very large.
Not even worth worrying about really. The Democrats have this one.
k8conant
(3,034 posts)who vote for the outside force that screwed them over.
Fla Dem
(25,979 posts)griffi94
(3,830 posts)don't have any allegiance to any party.
From some of the posts I've read here some of the Bernie
supporters don't either.
But don't worry it's a negligible amount.
Most of the people on DU will support whoever our nominee is November.
That's why we're Democrats.
burrowowl
(18,070 posts)Do you know the difference between a NAZI and a real Socialist?
Socialist were killed under Hitler!
Nickel79
(81 posts)which would explain why she's winning red states by such a large margin. Racists love supporting people who are like them, and when you've got a history of supporting segregationists and toppling democratically-elected governments like Honduras, it's no small surprise that she's not a "Hero of the Republican Party."
Just one example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511468004#post20
While Bernie and Trump are different in nearly every way, they're bucking the establishment's status quo and that resonates with quite a few people. Unfortunately Trump is a disgusting human being, and Bernie is a kind and honest man.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)Your suggestion that she won the red states because she's really conservative (which is false) and because racist conservatives like to support her, is therefore both inaccurate and offensive.
Nickel79
(81 posts)-Pro-war? Not progressive.
-Pro-corporate? Not progressive.
-Pro-outsourcing? Not progressive.
-Pro-private prisons? Not progressive.
-Pro-death penalty? Not progressive.
-Pro-drilling? Not progressive.
-Pro-Defense of Marriage Act? Not progressive.
-Pro-War on Drugs? Not progressive.
-Pro-Citizens United? Not progressive.
-Pro-lobbyists serving as super delegates? Not progressive.
-Anti-Union? Not progressive.
-Anti-veteran? Not progressive.
-Anti-transparency? Not progressive.
-Claims she's a moderate? Not progressive.
Oh, and it's not progressive to topple democratically elected governments and murder activists so our corporations can exploit their natural resources:
"The Clinton-brokered election did indeed install and legitimate a militarized regime based on repression. In the interview, Cáceres says that Clinton’s coup-government, under pressure from Washington, passed terrorist and intelligence laws that criminalized political protest. Cáceres called it 'counterinsurgency,' carried out on behalf of 'international capital'—mostly resource extractors—that has terrorized the population, murdering political activists by the high hundreds. 'Every day,' Cáceres said elsewhere, 'people are killed.'"
http://www.thenation.com/article/chronicle-of-a-honduran-assassination-foretold/
None of that sounds very progressive. In fact, it sounds pretty conservative. But hey, who needs evidence when she has uneducated/undereducated individuals to stick up for her with opinions based on zero substantiated fact?
Additionally, please put a lid on your racism and stop referring to us as a single voting bloc. It's really getting tiring, and we aren't quite as stupid as you want us to be. Thanks in advance.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)You are the one who has suggested that the red states voters who voted for Hillary are racist and uneducated. Given that most of her voters in those states were African American, you are the one who need to look at what you are writing.
Nickel79
(81 posts)...suggesting we're a single voting bloc based on race. That comment literally defines racism. As a black man, I don't appreciate it. So yes, please put a lid on the racism.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)The phrase "the African American vote" used in the context of Hillary's red state victories is not racism at all. I am well aware that Hillary does not have a lock on any demographic group, and that many African American voters support Bernie. But Hillary's red state victories were largely because of African Americans voting for her in large numbers in those states. This is a FACT, and me pointing it out, is not racism. My response was to your statement that Hillary carried the red states based on the racist vote. That is simply incorrect. The racist vote in the red states goes towards the Republicans.
Nickel79
(81 posts)Trust me, I live in one. Democrats in red states, especially in the south, are nothing like NY or CA democrats. Does that mean all of them? Of course not, it's another diverse group. But the truth is quite a few are supporters of establishment candidates who do little for minorities, e.g. Hillary Clinton. So the claim that only racists vote for republicans is false, as there are some folks who think they're doing the right thing by voting for democrats, but still think in very racist terms. Not all racists are blatantly racist like some of the people at Trump rallies, some are latently racist (some white southern democrats) and quietly support neighborhood segregation, disparity in education, blind support for the police, etc.
As for African American voters, we've got quite a diverse group in the south. There are those who are ultra-progressive, and there are centrist/nearly-conservative types who don't always vote in their own best interest. I'm in the first group. Unfortunately, quite a few of us lack education and vote based on name recognition--from what I've seen, this explains quite a few of the Hillary votes.
If she wins, she'll do extremely little for us. I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it. All of that aside, please don't be like the American media and refer to us as one single, unified, minority voting bloc who all behave the same and need to be coddled. You've further explained your reasoning here, and I appreciate that. Your first post didn't quite sound the same.
brush
(58,293 posts)Are you advocating a Trump vote if Sanders doesn't win the Dem nomination?
Nickel79
(81 posts)Please elaborate, as your overly vague claim is difficult to address when there's no reasoning behind it, and I don't want to make assumptions.
Additionally, Trump is not the topic here. We're discussing racism and referencing minority groups as "single voting blocs." We're a tad more diverse than a "herd of people sharing a single thought."
brush
(58,293 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)They're actually FRIENDS. 
Don't ever compare a man with principle to a family of liars and cheaters.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)I don't want to be part of a crowd supporting welfare for Wall Street or NAZIs.
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)I think people are waking up to the fact that trade deals have been stuffed down our throats.
I am fearful if WalMart and NAFTA and TPP and Normalized Trade With China will be the number one issue in the upcoming GE.
Big Banks and past wars play into that debate also.
jfern
(5,204 posts)
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Did he vote for it? Excuses excuses.
He probably misspoke.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)
still_one
(96,910 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)will do anything they can to help avoid her being in the White House.
still_one
(96,910 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)regularly using the lesser of two evils in regards to fear of Trump lately. Now someone posts something about a story saying some would choose Trump over Hillary because in their mind, Trump is the lesser evil and of course it's not hypocritical at all...
Perhaps those choosing Trump, which I'm not advocating for, simply accept his racism as the lesser evil compared with Hillary's corruption, lies and favors she'll owe. I'm not saying it's correct, just that it's hypocritical of people to say choose the lesser evil, but scream bloody murder when someone else does just that because in their mind it's not Hillary.
Only give people a choice between corrupt establishment candidate and someone else, they might just take the someone else - even with all of Trump's flaws.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Any person who votes for a racist, says everything about that person.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)So your question is absurd.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)Soooooo, why do you think she's a racist, then?
hack89
(39,180 posts)hack89
(39,180 posts)do you think all those black people voting for her think she is a racist? Stockholm syndrome perhaps?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I mentioned nothing at all about what I think POC think and in my opinion your statement is bigoted. So it sort of proves my point. I don't care if POC think she is racist or not. My opinion is that she is racist and not based on what I think POC think.
My opinion is based on what she has said in regards to young brown skinned people being super predators and to positions on issues that she took, advocated for and spoke about while her husband was President. Also, the frequency with which she and her supporters play the race card is another indication of her and their bigoted attitudes.
hack89
(39,180 posts)Are best able to define it? Have you ever suffered from rscism?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)From both POC and whites.
Response to hack89 (Reply #189)
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Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)Nickel79
(81 posts)What is it about Clinton you find "liberal" or "progressive?" She's a republican by every measure of the word. Countless articles have been written on the topic. Do you expect us to believe she's progressive because of her gender? Please, enlighten me.
Tanuki
(15,465 posts)Nickel79
(81 posts)"She wrote it on her website, therefore it must be true."
A lifetime of behavior > some words on a website
You're a prime example of what Bernie is talking about when he says, "Americans need more affordable access to education."
Now shoo, Hillarybot.
Tanuki
(15,465 posts)or you wouldn't have made a rookie mistake like calling it "her website." Maybe reading a little before you post would make your unearned condescension look a little less foolish. As for the arrogance and self regard that you feel entitles you to show up on a website for a few days and order someone who has been here for more than a decade to "shoo," adding an egregious insult and an unoriginal would-be taunt, I can't really help. You are who you are. But you might want to read DU TOS if you want to post here very long.
Nickel79
(81 posts)and the problems it contains. They compile data that is generated from quite a few sources, including statements "on the issues" from Hillary's own website. They draw quite a bit of information from platforms, which is hollow information. I talk about it quite a bit with students, who like yourself, think the website and others like it are infallible.
You need to keep in mind where the data is drawn from. Are voting records valuable? Absolutely. How about quotes? Well it depends on context and timeframe--most are hollow. Remember: we're talking about politicians here. Sure, she can say we need to cut back on fossil fuels and take climate change seriously. This website can post that, and people will say she's pro-environment. But does the site mention all her campaign contributions from energy interests? Of course not. Do energy interests invest money because they want more* regulation? Of course not.
How about foreign policy? They take more quotes from her website and other sources, and assume that's all there is to the story. But does that tell the story? Of course not. She can talk about trying to "aid and balance" Honduras, and they'll post that information. What they won't post is the fact her actions supported and legitimized a military coup that has resulted in the death of hundreds, and the displacement of thousands.
My point here is things go quite a bit deeper than some simple website that compiles incomplete information, much of which is compiled from her* website.
As for your silly little "I've been here longer so you better respect me" comments and tattle-tale threats, I can't really help. You are who you are. But you might want to consider the fact that internet forum "seniority" should never be used as a source of self-esteem. Run along and tattle if it makes you feel better, makes no difference to me.
Tanuki
(15,465 posts)"her website," and your pseudo-intellectual posturing fools no one.I did not "threaten to tattle," as you so childishly put it, but was simply trying to point out that this website is aimed at electing Democratic candidates. Some of your few posts suggest your purpose here is aimed in a different direction. Another poster in this thread has already sized you up as being "infantile," and with every post you come closer to proving his point.
Nickel79
(81 posts)of seniority, boasts of post count, or threats of tattling? I'm disappointed. 
But seriously, your inability to differentiate between what I said and what you think I said is very telling, and further illustrates why Bernie is right when he says Americans need more affordable access to education.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)the same, that makes her a liberal....unless you are saying that Bernie isn't a liberal?
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)all american girl
(1,788 posts)I thought those odds were great....do you agree with anyone 100% of the time? I don't. I think my husband is the most honest, wonderful man in the world, and I certainly don't agree with him 100% of the time. That would just be strange.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)For example, if both Hillary and Bernie voted to support recycling paper cups in the Capitol building, should that be given the same weight as, say, Hillary voting for, even shillling for, Bush's Iraq war while Bernie was speaking out against it?
djean111
(14,255 posts)And no, she is not a liberal, and to attempt to paint over her to make her look like one is laughable.
Plus, you know, if she gets the nomination, she will cast aside all pretense of being liberal in order to get GOP votes.
And if president, it will be Third Way and NeoCon all the way, baby!
all american girl
(1,788 posts)I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here...I keep seeing these very broad brush things, but no evidence cited to back it up. Thanks 
djean111
(14,255 posts)decidedly not what a liberal would favor.
I ma going by her record, not by what she says at any point in time.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)But the 7% they disagree with is where the difference is
If your husband or my wife had a solid difference on things we felt were fundamentally non negotiable they would be unlikely our husband or wife.
I would wager your decision making like ours would run higher than 93% agreement and more in the area of 98% with the 2% being on issues of no lasting consequence.
And it would be that 5% that would make the difference.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Clinton writes that she began to have doubts about Goldwater’s politics even before she left high school, when a teacher forced her to play President Johnson during a mock presidential debate in order to "learn about issues from the other side" (page 24). Later, as a junior at Wellesley College, she writes, "I had gone from being a Goldwater Girl to supporting the anti-war campaign of Eugene McCarthy," driving to New Hampshire on weekends to stuff envelopes and walk precincts (pages 32-33). Even so, she also worked as a Washington, D.C., intern for Gerald Ford, who was then the Republican leader of the House, and she attended the 1968 Republican convention to work for New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller’s unsuccessful effort to get the GOP presidential nomination (pages 34-35).
It appears even in her college years she supported republicans and I'm sure she probably voted for some of them, I mean after all why would you work for the campaign and then not vote for them?
Nickel79
(81 posts)to remove references regarding her pride in toppling the democratically elected government in Honduras. I'm sure recently-murdered Berta Caceres appreciates this re-arranging of the story:
"Interestingly, Hillary Clinton removed the most damning sentences regarding her role in legitimating the Honduran coup from the paperback edition of Hard Choices."
http://www.thenation.com/article/chronicle-of-a-honduran-assassination-foretold/
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)to her repetroit, mistake after mistake, and airbrushing history will never change that. I can't believe this country would rather have HRC over Bernie Sanders...goes to show how much I know about some of the people that live in this nation. Thanks for the link...amazing. 
Nickel79
(81 posts)Part of the problem is the fact our media is the only source of information for quite a few people, so if they don't report it, people are ignorant to it. I can promise you, if environmentalists were being murdered in Honduras after a republican toppled their democratically-elected government, we'd be hearing about it non-stop. Since it's Hillary, there's been barely a peep.
This article from the same source is a little more detailed, if you're interested in reading it:
http://www.thenation.com/article/the-clinton-backed-honduran-regime-is-picking-off-indigenous-leaders/
Additional research will show people are being pushed off their land in Honduras, villages are being bulldozed, and companies are exploiting their natural resources via mining, logging, and drilling. It's absolutely disgusting and heartbreaking.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Nickel79
(81 posts)The situation over there just keeps getting worse and worse, and I'm certain our gov't wants to wash their hands of it. This is the kind of stuff that makes me ashamed of my country.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Sad commentary for the people who were and are running our government. I can't believe they can stand by and continue to watch this happen. After hearing the stories from people I know in Honduras since the Coup, and how the crack down has been getting worse and worse so that it is becoming unbearable to live in certain areas is enough to make the strongest person cry. And when I think of her standing there saying send the kids that were fleeing the disaster back, I wonder just what kind of person is this that knew what was happening in that nation and didn't even want the babies to escape. Sad, sad commentary. 
Nickel79
(81 posts)It's heartbreaking. It's infuriating. I feel so powerless and I want to help these people so badly. Why do those with power always seem to care less? I've always heard money and power corrupts, but I'd like to think I'd still be a good person with a heart if I were rich and/or powerful. This is so upsetting. Those people deserve peace, happiness, and security every bit as much as anyone else.
Sorry I'm rambling, I'm just really emotional right now after watching those videos.
monicaangela
(1,508 posts)Imagine how I feel with friends living there not knowing if from one day to the next I will hear tragic news concerning them. It is heartbreaking, and at the same time encouraging. These are people with very little who are giving their lives for their fellow citizens, and democracy, and who are they having to fight...governments that claim they are promoting democracy in their region. Unbelievable, this is very sad. The Oligarchs are really twisted IMHO.
Nickel79
(81 posts)which is the fact these people are incredibly brave and courageous. I'd be proud to stand with them.
surrealAmerican
(11,518 posts)Most of the public is not particularly attached to either party. Most of them are not particularly well informed about issues. Most of them will base their decisions on factors that seem irrelevant to us.
21st Century Poet
(255 posts)What this article is saying does not surprise me. There are other factors at play when voters make their choice. People rationalise their choices in all sorts of different ways. Wanting an outsider, regardless which party he or she comes from is one of them, for example. Or they vote for the person who seems to have a nice personality. Or they really dislike an opponent. Or a hundred other things.
Something strange about Donald Trump is that he is quite protectionist so that makes his policies kind of similar to Bernie Sanders's. The difference, of course, is that Bernie Sanders's policies are much better outlined than Donald Trump's and Bernie Sanders has a far better temperament.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)She does not possess traditional Democratic party principles, and is certainly not a liberal.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)But, I understand this sentiment, "I prefer chaos to stagnation.”
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)They are giving the middle finger to the political establishment that have sold their jobs to other countries. Personally, I think there are other options. There are other ways to give the political establishment the middle finger other than voting for Trump but like I said I can understand their reasoning.
Nickel79
(81 posts)I hate Trump and his idiot supporters with a passion; but Hillary, Debbie, the DNC with lobbyist super delegates, and the media who have tried with all their might to imbalance the outcome absolutely disgust me. I feel like they're giving me the finger. So naturally, it makes me want to give them the finger and vote against them out of spite. F me? No, F you! That's how I feel right now.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)maybe if the corporate uniparty decided to stop propping up clinton and allow a fair contest (which bernie would surely win), the people would have a reasonable option.
the gop will have to live with their outsider candidate, but the dems are determined to shove hillary down our throats, and it will be their dowfall.
bernie or trump. its our choice to make.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That doesn't change my mind on a damn thing. Trump voter are fucking idiots. Do you think you are selling a pro-Sanders or anti-Clinton message here?
nevergiveup
(4,815 posts)It isn't so much that he dislikes Clinton but more that he wants a radical change from the status quo and he doesn't care if it comes from the left or the right. He did vote for Bernie in the Illinois primary but he will be all over Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nomination. He did say he would vote for Clinton if Cruz was the Republican nominee.
still_one
(96,910 posts)Nickel79
(81 posts)And overly vague, intellectually dull, black & white comments. Exercise a little thought. Think critically. Try being persuasive rather than telling people how to feel and vote. You Hillary supporters motivate me to cast an opposition vote out of spite with all this crap.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)You mean like this ...
... absolutely infantile.
Nickel79
(81 posts)The media and the DNC are literally walking all over our collective democracy, and your attitude is, "just get in line and hail the Queen." That's infantile, and it demonstrates either 1. cowardice, or 2. ignorance.
I'm leaning towards ignorance, since applying labels seems to characterize the depth of your intellect. Move along, Hillarybot.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... you claim "applying labels seems to characterize the depth of your intellect", and then immediately turn around and call me a "Hillarybot".
And if that weren't enough, you're applying that "label" to someone who was barred from the Hillary Group within their first thirty posts.
You're a funny guy!
Nickel79
(81 posts)...my application of a label. Would you like to know the difference between your label and mine?
1. Yours was based on the fact you didn't like my reply.
2. Mine was based on the fact you defended a blanket generalization while labeling someone who simply pointed out flawed logic, in addition to your stance that people don't have a right to be angry about being disenfranchised.
One was emotional, the other was logical based on observation. The fact you took issue with my reply while condoning an attempt to suppress opinions with blanket generalization-shaming says literally everything I'll ever need to know about your intellect.
As I said before: move along, Hillarybot.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Yeah man I'm sure this line of argumentation will sway people.
Joe Bluecollar has likely been called racist before, accurate or not, so some self ordained representative from the Democratic Orthodoxy is going to make him see the light by a stale rebuke.
Nickel79
(81 posts)I too am getting tired of the race shaming and gender shaming within my own party. In 2008, we're racists if we don't support Obama. In 2016, we're sexist if we don't support Hillary.
That's why you have idiots like Albright saying, "there's a special place in hell for women who don't support Hillary."
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)on line are believed to be who they say they are. 
Response to snagglepuss (Reply #14)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)much like the the MO of Clinton operatives who have from the get have smeared Berners in the lowest ways possible such as smearing them as racists and sexists.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, you have objective evidence to support your allegation, yes?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I have run into a lot of people like this who are so enraged at the Establishment that they would rather vote for Der Drumpf that vote for Hillary. No, it's not rational, no, it doesn't make any god damn sense, and yes, I think they are idiots, but it shows the depth of anti-Establishment rage there is in the American public and if people in power don't listen we are in deep shit and risk having a Fascist thug elected into office.
Nickel79
(81 posts)And I wouldn't feel the way you described if I thought the primaries were fair and the DNC weren't corrupt. That, and Hillary's conservative values are a big turn-off. You can't call yourself progressive when you're pro-war, pro-Wall St, pro-prison lobby, pro-death penalty, etc.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I was just trying to be careful with my wording lest Skinner think I was supporting Trump.
Nickel79
(81 posts)and it angers me to no end to be pushed into positions like this.
PATRICK
(12,246 posts)debate between Richards and Bush, October 1994. No, I am not predicting it would turn out that way but in general the effect could be this. A nervous, angry electorate who already dislikes Hillary in dangerous amounts is treated again to media stupidity and right wing simple planning with a touch of rigging. Richards said all that logically need to be said while Junior was promising ludicrous policy changes flavored with sockito'em welfare and criminal punishment changes. Even on perception, boring but just and responsible and not very vicious against Bush's obvious incompetence, Richards was not the media "star". The audience laughed and cheered with Bush, though certainly no Trump who begs to be booed.
But what I mean is the expectation in the audience that Trump both smack Hillary down and not look scary. Cripes he is mentally more competent(well, maybe barely) than scripted Reagan. He presents the mere image that will sway the masses poised on the brink of responsibility with strong reservations and wild card "Change" and you can bury all your voting bloc power, logical issues and truth based Trump attacks in the nearest landfill. It will be close and she will lose, all the more so since practically nothing has been done to protect the integrity of the American vote.
People with money and influence, besides Libertarian berserkers, are so antagonistic that yes, a big motive is to let Trump burn everything to the ground rather than endure Hillary's prolonged agony of oligarchical democracy. They don't expect sanders to prevail, but yes they would back him more positively because he too would shake things up away from the rule of the very few. these people will not decide the election unless they successfully get behind a third party phenom.
It is the mainstream voter you should worry about, the potential Reagan Dem, the GOP hypocrites who will kiss Trump's ass to get power. The reasonable people such as the main spectrum of DU could be in shock to suddenly see the momentum beast driving the election into the maniac's hands. You think with the polarizing rhetoric and Trump's unflinching ego it could not happen. I am not saying it will or that even then the Dems couldn't pull it off, but the struggling Clinton campaign had better not go into the general only leaning on dutiful party apparatus, bland presentation and Trump fear. The present smugness could vanish in a heartbeat in ten minutes of a national debate. I think it unlikely, but I have been wrong a lot too.
Autumn
(46,825 posts)but to our detriment they have closed their eyes to it.
still_one
(96,910 posts)Hillary, but if they vote for Trump then that is exactly what they are
revbones
(3,660 posts)then they are liars. Does that work? Didn't think so. You know your blanket statements are false when you can't use substitutions.
Perhaps they just view Trump as the lesser evil compared to Hillary, enough so as to excuse his racism.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)The majority of Democrats don't see Hillary as a "liar" - no matter how many times you and your cohorts post that on a message board notwithstanding.
Ergo, they would not be choosing between a "liar" vs "a "racist" - they would be choosing between someone who has championed equality throughout her career vs a racist.
No Democrat, no liberal, no progressive, is going to "excuse Trump's racism" - ever - regardless of who, HRC or BS, is the (D) nominee.
Ever.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Nor did I argue that they did in any capacity. I simply showed that your flawed logic and blanket statements are false by substituting Hillary for Trump.
Surely you don't believe that 100% of Trump supporters AND those other people that would rather choose anyone over Hillary, even Trump, are all racist right?
I think it can be argued rather easily that Hillary is not a paragon of virtue when it comes to equality. Your statements are more hyperbole than logic.
Also, you are projecting your values as something that all Democrats and Liberals feel the same about. Perhaps you should rethink that, because many feel Hillary is the greater evil in many cases. Just because you feel Trump's racism should be the sole determining factor about choosing Hillary over Trump, I'm sure many others feel differently - as is seen by the OP.
I'm not lobbying for Trump, but I am lobbying here for realistic logic and discussion.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)Pollster Trend
Unfavorable 53.6%
Favorable 41.6%
Undecided
Trump
Pollster Trend
Unfavorable 62.4%
Favorable 33.2%
If Trump begins using his usual smear techniques I expect that he will raise her negatives significantly.
Nickel79
(81 posts)You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. This woman hasn't stood firm on an issue for longer than 5 minutes. People who champion equality don't support segregationists, they don't vote against equality (Defense of Marriage Act), they don't support the private prison lobby, they don't support the death penalty, they don't vote for war, they don't help corporations crush unions, and they don't help topple democratically elected governments (Honduras) and look the other way when activists (Berta Caceres) are murdered for speaking up.
Championed equality? Good grief. Bernie is right about the fact Americans need more affordable access to college.
revbones
(3,660 posts)When she finally reversed her public DOMA stance of 2010 etc... But somehow that means she's been fighting for equality for 20+ years. Weird math that Hillary supporters have...
Nickel79
(81 posts)when everywhere I looked, I saw that yellow sticker with black lettering--you know the one that said, "NO WAR IN IRAQ" and it was plastered on bumpers all over my native California. Mind you, these are the same people who are suddenly okay with a warhawk because she's a she, and she's got a D next to her name.
It also makes me think about how appalled people were when Reagan sold arms to Iran in order to fund the efforts to topple a democratically-elected government in Nicaragua. But if Hillary does something similar in Honduras? Eh, shrug, no big deal.
Weird logic that Hillary supporters have...
Buzz cook
(2,633 posts)They're a tool.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)You do realize Trump is winning the nomination because he's seen as anti-GOP establishment? His nomination has nothing to do with Hillary. They're factionalizing over there.
When Trump wins the nomination he'll still get that hard core base. But any Sanders "supporter" who goes on to vote for Trump and considers him "the lesser evil" is was quite frankly never a Sanders supporter, because Sanders will be rallying for Clinton.
They're freaking out over at the GOP side because of this. They think they should be electing someone who can go up against Clinton, but they're electing someone that a core loud base is voting for.
revbones
(3,660 posts)I just said that in the general, based on the OP and other stories, that some could feel that Trump is the lesser of two evils when compared with Hillary.
It must be nice to know so much and be able to predict the future just via your nown anecdotal evidence. Such as whether someone was really never a Sanders supporter, etc...
It seems a lot of Hillary's supporters are also freaking out, given all the loyalty oath posts, etc...
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)...than to vote for Trump. Trump is winning without a broad base. Clinton's base is diverse and Sanders supporters will vote for her because he will support her. If you voted for Sanders, supported Sanders, but then vote Trump, you would not in fact be supporting Sanders and his values.
revbones
(3,660 posts)It would seem to not have any basis in reality.
I would agree that most of Sanders supporters will support the nominee regardless of whether it is Clinton. The problem comes into play when you understand that there is a core difference between Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters.
Hillary supporters have an idol they project beliefs onto. Bernie supporters have a person running that happens to be honest, not on the take and have represented and advocated for most if not all of their specific policy beliefs consistently for 40+ years.
Hillary supporters will contort themselves into pretzels about her Goldman Sachs ties, her transcripts, the corruption, the changing positions after receiving donor money (bankruptcy bill), her lobbying for the Crime Bill, Welfare Reform, NAFTA, TPP, Colombia Free Trade Agreement, her email scandal, her Iraq War vote, and so on. They complicate their imagined belief structure over that of a Trump supporter by also deflecting when confronted with facts, and will even attempt logic such as "Well, X did it too." as if that would make it ok or simply discrediting the source of material citing facts.
Hillary supporters support her because she's Hillary.
Most Bernie supporters differ from Hillary supporters in that if it was anyone else instead of Bernie, running that had the history/consistency/honesty/policy positions as Bernie, and was also not corporately funded with a super-PAC, then they would whole-heartedly support that person just like they now support Bernie.
It's unfortunate that Hillary supporters cannot objectively see that.
All that said, back to Trump. There have been recent polls suggesting 33% won't vote for Hillary no matter what. I believe that number after my own transition from being able to pull the lever for her but preferring Bernie to now despising her. I also believe that there is a significant portion of independents that would support Bernie, but will not support Hillary under any circumstance. Whether that is enough to overcome those that will vote for her out of fear of Trump, etc... I cannot say.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)Because she equivocates on everything. I think most of her support base (not on DU, in real life, the people actually voting for her), think she wants the job and is experienced for it, and they don't want to see the Republicans in the White House and think she can win. I also think they want to take a safe bet, and go with someone that they think will continue Obama's policies. Oh, and I do think they see through the equivocation and hope she'll do the "right thing."
While I don't see the electorate being pumped to vote for her, I cannot imagine any scenario where Trump wins. For the simple fact that Trump's core demographic doesn't ever vote Democrat anyway. Romney (2012, no Obama honeymoon with the youth vote) won a staggering 62% share of that demographic. And still lost. It's because minorities are growing and their voice is increasingly being heard.
What is unfortunate for me is that I went into this thinking Sanders could win, maybe, if he got out the youth vote. But he would have to do it by larger margins than Obama did in 2008. But the turnout rates have been mediocre at best, 10 points lower than 2008. Sanders has tied Clinton in many races, in many cases the youth vote broke for Sanders by 80%. That just tells you how important turnout is, and Sanders himself says it.
If the same youth don't vote or whatever I'm not worried because Trump has a massive millennial problem that he cannot overcome and it will likely get worse as the nastiness of the race heats up. I think if anything the way the race will go (very bigoted, very sexist, very racist), the youth vote will break for Clinton in a surprising way.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Let's look at things a little deeper then...
I'm 43 and about as far left liberal as they could come. After Jan of this year, I now despise Hillary and am pretty sure I won't be able to vote for her come Nov. I also know that despite all the Trump-fear and his racism, idiocy, etc... that if he were to win, there'd still be a USA after 4 years. Therefore I'm not as motivated by Trump-fear to vote against my conscience for Hillary as others might be.
The problem in the theory that you supposed, is that it relies on fear to motivate the youth vote when the chance at real change with Bernie did not. I don't think fear is high enough of a motivator for people that aren't genuine Republicans and I don't see that happening.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)I think it'll ultimately come down to identity politics. The youth are very socially liberal, the stuff the Trump supporters on Reddit are spewing is incredibly nasty (and not just against Clinton, against Sanders too). They tend to be composed of white males. They've picked up all these nasty memes and everything. Just go to Reddit's The_Donald if you want to see the depravedness they've fallen in to. They are so out there it's not even funny, and they simply cannot appeal to the American public.
revbones
(3,660 posts)and witnessing the media blackout, and the corruption, etc... will be big demoralizers against the youth. The identity politics you're talking about are not ingrained the way they are with older Hillary supporters.
Also the fear is more for the independents.
If you firmly believe those issues won't matter, then we'll just agree to disagree.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)And it'll be fun the whole ride.
djean111
(14,255 posts)I have heard the same from the younger people who are interested in politics because of Bernie.
Hillary represents the same regime that is not doing very well by them, and she pretty much sneers at change.
IMO they will vote for Trump or stay home.
And the TPP means more to them than you think.
Should be an interesting year. But all the scorn heaped on the young doesn't even register.
Autumn
(46,825 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)Perhaps, they just view Trump as a lesser evil than Hillary and excuse his racism to avoid her corruption. Making blanket statements doesn't help any discussion.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)HRC's 'corruption' vs. Trump's lifetime of corruption, corporate failure, and despicable racism and sexism?
There is no rational basis for choosing Trump over EITHER Democratic candidate. Hell there's no rational basis for choosing Trump over his fellow GOPers.
The only reason to vote for Trump over Clinton is that you can't stand the thought of a woman in the White House.
(and for the record I'm a Sanders fan and really don't want to have HRC as my best choice in fall.)
eggman67
(837 posts)Muslims for Trump:
http://time.com/4259372/donald-trump-muslim-supporters/
Hindus, Muslims & Sikhs for Trump:
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35758156
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)I read somewhere that 7% of Hillary supporters in 2008 voted for McCain. Consider also that in 2008 and 2012, according to exit polls Obama got about 8% of Republican votes and more than 15% of conservative votes! Clearly, there will be some Sanders supporters who for different reasons will support Trump. But, there will also be Rubio, Cruz, Kasich, and other supporters who end up voting for the Democrat. I think it's most important to focus on who we can win over rather than to spend a lot of time trying to convince those who will absolutely not vote for Hillary. They don't really deserve our attention. They don't really matter.
Buzz cook
(2,633 posts)Exit polls in New Hampshire had some young voters being Trump/Sanders or Sanders/Trump voters.
Probably a small group.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Demsrule86
(71,036 posts)Honestly, I heard the same thing with Hillary and Obama...a certain number of Berne supporters will vote for Trump...they were never Democrats anyway or they will stay home...but any thinking person would never vote for a racist POS like Trump.
delrem
(9,688 posts)Sanders supporters wouldn't cross the street to piss on Donald Trump, if he was on fire.
So cut the shit already.
raging moderate
(4,522 posts)They see Ben Carson supporting Trump, and they have severe ADHD or can't process language well enough to understand Trump's speeches. And they don't know that Trump was born into a fabulously wealthy family but frittered away most of his wealth; they think he was born poor/working class but worked his way up, because he talks crudely and they think working class people inevitably talk crudely but rich people never talk crudely.
The same ADHD/language processing problems would keep them from processing Bernie Sanders. They saw an angry old white guy railing against Wall Street and stopped listening to the words; they didn't hear him speaking up last spring and summer against the murders of Trayvon Martin, Tamron Rice, and Sandra Bland.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)bernie would be offended
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)What actual Sanders supporter would vote Trump after all the crap Trump's minions have said about him? They think Clinton is bad? For saying he voted on an auto bill? They need to go over to Reddit for that one.
Nah, it's all anti-Clinton sentiment, there's zero real Sanders support there.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)24/7!
Quotes
peace13
(11,076 posts)If one hits you it's because you made them. If their moronic voters elect this guy they need someone to blame!
DinahMoeHum
(22,541 posts)strikes again.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)for president. Good to know.
joshcryer
(62,511 posts)To quote from this thread.
shawn703
(2,709 posts)joshcryer
(62,511 posts)Reddit's "The_Donald" is basically a parody of every meming fanbase that exists.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)"So we are not seeing the birth of a new cross-party force in American politics. "
They aren't considering the number of Democrats who crossed over and voted for Trump in the primaries. Could they be potential Bernie supporters? Yes, but the media has repeatedly beat the drum that it will be Clinton so if they want anti-establishment they go for Trump.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Response to peacebird (Reply #69)
PonyUp This message was self-deleted by its author.
CincyDem
(6,962 posts)While I hate the idea of it, there's some logic here that makes sense.
There is a fruit salad (yeah, I said it) of reasons that someone supports any individual candidate. For some, their decision looks at the total package, weighing each part, probably in different ways...maybe even focusing on a single issue with little thought or concern about other aspects of the candidate.
It's easy to see that single issue votes, focus on the idea of "outsiderness" can make the Sanders Trump jump. The common element on both sides of the aisle this cycle has been outside vs. insider. When you slice the candidates down the red/blue color line it's obvious that Sanders supporters will migrate to Clinton. But not everyone slices their pie the same way and for those who use the in/out line...and it's probably a small number...then this is their post-Sanders route.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And they know they won't get it with Hillary.
It's Bernie or Donald when it comes to shaking up the system... your move.
FBaggins
(27,844 posts)It's Bernie or Donald.... In other words, if Hillary wins the nomination, this poster promotes Trump.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:07 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That's not how I read it. Look, I don't know what WillyT wrote that pissed people off, but it's apparent that he's on someone's Alert hit list based on a thread I read in one of the groups. I try to be as fair as I can, and on this one, I see overreach on the alerter's part.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I won't vote to hide truth.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: People are free to voice their inane thinking and we are free to voice our opinion.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't make the leap that the alerter did. I'll give poster the benefit of the doubt.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry... you don't get to put words into the poster's mouth and then ask that they be hidden. WillyT is likely accurately describing why some people would consider that choice. IF you want "change" more than you care what the SUBSTANCE of that change is, you're going to end up with Trump. Willy doesn't say that he wouldn't give up change for yet another cycle.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
beaglelover
(4,143 posts)Sorry for the plain language, just how I feel about such an action. 
SidDithers
(44,273 posts)
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)This may clarify some of the reasoning that's not simply overlap on policy claims and demographics.
....
Many of the Sanders base would otherwise be in the Trump base (Trump has a whole lot of disaffected democrats), so comments like that only energize them. Now, I know there’s a lot of confusion as to why there would be any overlap between Trump and sanders people, so let me explain what I’ve seen from canvassing. It goes back to Hillary’s “I am not,” campaign. Most of the failed republican field has run similar campaigns of “I am not” (the only other republicans left in the race are the two who got away from that). Trump and Sanders are both running campaigns built on “We can be.” Sure, Trump is full of crap, but that doesn’t matter to a lot of people because they think lying is an integral part of politics and he’s just beating the rest at their own game. However, some are turned off by him and instead have turned to Sanders’ positive message and his long reputation for honest work. If Sanders leaves the race, they won’t abandon their dream of a better future and Hillary simply isn’t articulating one. She just talks about her past and keeping us on the same track we’re on today—which doesn’t look very appealing to the people sliding into poverty. No amount of insulting and shaming them will change that.
Original context
all american girl
(1,788 posts)if Hillary wins the primary, some Bernie supporters are going to vote for Trump, because....some reason. You know how to solve this problem, get out, grab some friends, and vote so Bernie wins. I just don't understand these write up. It almost feels like threats are being made to Hillary supporters...a nice general election ya got there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.
What's the point of all this?
ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)No chance I would vote for Trump. Same goes for every Bernie supporter I know.
yardwork
(64,939 posts)ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Ken Kesey.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)By the DNC and many hard core democrats. People are mad. They want change, not pretend change. Trump will attract a significant number of especially new voters, who are going to vote not for the establishment candidate.
He has also attracted people who have never voted before either. Neither of those two groups are polled. So we really have no idea how large they are. Anecdotally I know plenty of minorities who will vote trump. I also know plenty of tea party who are passed at their party and will vote trump. More R's than we care will vote party loyalty. Some (more than usual) will likely break libertarian and even some D.
And yes, how many Sanders voters will break for Jill Stein, how many will go D and how many Trump is real an open question
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Hillary will have a few months to earn my vote. If Bernie were to concede today, she would have more time to earn my vote. As of my typing this, I doubt I would cast a vote for president, just the down ballot dems. I am certain I won't send any money, I am certain I won't canvass, I am certain I won't tell my friends to vote for her. BTW you may say "I'm not truly a dem" to that I say "I am what we are supposed to be. You need to use my mirror?"
yardwork
(64,939 posts)There's yet another white supremacist OP at the top of this forum. Right wing sources are dragged over here all the time.
salinsky
(1,065 posts)... white people aggrieved over their loss of white privilege.
They are right about one thing.
There is no place in the Democratic Party for them.
Good riddance.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...I have no problem stating that I don't see him as being all that much worse from a policy standpoint as Clinton. The little he's released in detail about his policy positions actually indicate he's basically center-right...just like Hillary. The issue with him, aside from the outrageous shit that spews from his piehole, is the SCOTUS. But I suspect he'd actually be less likely to send us into yet more bullshit, discretionary wars. Hillary's record in that matter speaks for itself. Moreover, neither candidate will do fuck-all to address the issued of economic justice that are the centerpiece of Bernie's platform (and which are, by far, my own priorities).
It's not a wash for me, as I won't vote for a racist...but it's not like it isn't close.
tazkcmo
(7,419 posts)Some will vote Clinton. Most will not vote for either at all, vote Green/Write in Sanders/leave blank for president or just vote down ticket. Then pretty much all will leave the Dem Party.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)Response to BigBearJohn (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)or right-leaning dems (tho Clinton would be their obvious choice), but NO actual liberals are voting for Trump. There will however be many dems who vote 3rd part or stay home.
alarimer
(16,683 posts)Those people have REAL grievances. You assume they are all racists or that racism is the driving motivation to vote for Trump. It may or may not be. And Trump may not in fact give them what they want, but he is raising issues that Hillary had better not ignore.
The job losses due to trade agreements are a real thing. The issues facing a fading middle class will not be papered over with neo-liberal bullshit. Both Sanders and Trump have tapped into something that the Republican and Democratic Parties had better not ignore. The Republican chickens are coming home to roost and I for one could not be happier about that. I wish I could believe that the Democrats will start taking the concerns of these people seriously, but I fear they won't. I wish I could believe that Hillary really means what she says, but I fear it is just talk.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Trump is touting fair trade and said we've been screwed, and anti-immigrant rhetoric that immigrants are taking our jobs. It may appeal to blue collar white voters. Sanders was also very anti-trade policies put in place. like NAFTA and TPP.
Whether people like it or not, the perception of Clinton is that of freindly to big business and pro-Free Trade with less a consideration of the American labor market in the process.
The post doesn't surprise me in the least. Clinton's support is primarily composed of minorities and seniors. Seniors are less concerned by trade policies impacting on employment and minorities for their own specific reasons like her as is evidenced by the vote.
The problem is she is going to lose Sanders voters who will go to Trump, and some will go Green and some will simply not vote for the Presidency.
It's a reality, not surprising but reality for any pragmatist.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)CanadaexPat
(496 posts)That's a meaningful consideration. American adventurism has been against people of color, and you can't ignore that type of racism.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)I repeat: Mexico. Our peaceful neighbor right next door. That's how he says he's going to make them pay for his wall -- by threatening them with the military.
The man is truly dangerous.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)He's a bully. Just awful.
randr
(12,504 posts)see the opportunity to have their voices heard for the first time. Angry racists are going with Trump and angry progressives are going with Bernie.
Taking one of the other out of the race still leaves them the option of sticking it to the establishment.
MuttLikeMe
(279 posts)Judging by some of the posts in here.
they're like "eh...he'll shake things up...what's the worst that can happen"
And when the Hunger Games start they'll be the first ones crying
randr
(12,504 posts)A whole lot more of Trumps supporters would have voted for Bernie that Bernie's will go to Trump if that is any consolation.
MuttLikeMe
(279 posts)That's the way they've always been. They're the reason we got 8 fucking years of George W. Bush.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Too much baggage and she lies like a rug. People can't see the difference between her and Donald Dump. I see the difference, and it doesn't favor Clinton. Not voting for Trump or the Queen myself. Bernie or Bust!!!
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)....and it all has to do with the trade policies.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)who will switch to Trump (I know I won't), but I don't know any who will pull the lever for Hillary. All of my Bernie friends will write in Bernie if he is not the nominee. A vote for Hillary is a vote for a continuation of disastrous policies which favor the wealthy and do little to help the middle and lower class.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Security destruction, attacks on healthcare, outsourcing, loan sharking, locking up a third of black youth, and border fences!" and Trump will go completely populist
SDJay
(1,089 posts)you're pissed at the establishment is like choosing to eat cyanide because you're tired of GMOs. There's no actual logic there at all.
If you're that pissed at the establishment, vote green or some other third party if all you're doing is protesting.
Voting for that scum may make you feel good, but it could potentially hurt a lot of people.
I've made it clear that I'm a SBS supporter, but I will absolutely vote for HRC in the GE assuming she's the nominee.
A vote for Trump, IMO, is not a protest or a statement - it's insanity.
HRC will be status quo, even though her administration would be one filled with fake scandals, impeachment hearings most likely, an drama. As crappy as that sounds, it's still better than what King Orange the Fascist would do to all of us.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Nothing less than that.would be a humiliation for Bernie for any of his supporters to do this....
TheFarseer
(9,530 posts)We're talking about 7% going to Trump vs. 66% going to Clinton. That is a vast majority. Is too much being made of this? But let me just say, this is what happens when you nominate someone whose selling point is she's the lesser of two evils.
LonelyLiberalOhio
(10 posts)The answer is easy if you are a liberal democrat that you don't want an incumbent right wing democrat in office.
Turin_C3PO
(16,223 posts)This thread is pretty disgusting, all the people saying, "I wouldn't do it.... But I understand why" is BS. Bernie is the polar opposite of that racist fascist Trump. Hillary is too, for that manner. No Bernie supporters I know would never even consider Trump. Then again, I don't hang with racists so who knows.
krawhitham
(4,915 posts)Those interviewed
Claim they are both outsiders
Claim they are both have no super PAC
Claim they are both are not beholden to big powerful donors
It is unreal and scary that people are this dumb, each primary day MSNBC will find 10-20 of these people and talk to them. I would say half of the "joe six pack" supporters of Bernie they interview say they will go Trump if Bernie loses
I get not voting if Bernie loses, I get they feel corporations have taken over and the only voice left is not to vote. I can see that POV, some days I even agree, but VOTING FOR trump, WTF
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Most voters supported change to such a degree that they were nearly evenly split between a fascist and a socialist.
It is, at best, a huge risk to take the socialist off the table.
senz
(11,945 posts)Maybe she could start by releasing her hundred thousand dollar Big Bank speeches?
democrattotheend
(12,011 posts)However, it is important to note that these people are not Democrats, and cannot really be said to be "switching".
My libertarian boyfriend told me that last week, he was out with a bunch of friends, all of whom are libertarians, Republicans, or otherwise conservative-leaning. Yet all of them agreed that of the candidates still in the race on both sides, Bernie Sanders was the least offensive. I was kind of surprised by that but not shocked. Even people who disagree with Bernie can at least respect him for being honest and independent from the machine. Not so much with Hillary.
Granted, small sample, but I thought it was worth sharing.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)
kcr
(15,522 posts)Imagine the panic as they had to call in extras to handle such a flood of responses.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)LyndaG
(683 posts)In '03 - '04, I supported a candidate who didn't win the Democratic nomination. I was sad and disappointed, but DIDN'T turn around and vote for Bush/Cheney!
SidDithers
(44,273 posts)but they both love Trump, apparently.
Sid
raging moderate
(4,522 posts)He is everything they hate. It is just that a few righties are very low information and are not able to comprehend what Bernie Sanders is saying. They hear that blunt New York accent and think it means working class, and they are sure that all real working class whites are racist white supremacists like them.