2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Slaves Masters WERE NOT RACIST. They lived with black people and slept with them too!!
That sounds just about as stupid as 'Trump voters were not racist! They were in pain...' I be in pain too. But somehow, my pain doesn't allow me to place a guy who wants a muslim registry in the Whitehouse, because, how the fuck is hurting others going to help me? Schadenfreude?
Hey? You know you sound stupid when you try to defend DTrump, right? Defending his voters to try to make their vote for a racist demagogue seem not so bad is dumb. The more shit that happens, the more hate crimes committed by fans screaming 'TRUMP', the more evidence we have that his voters were absolutely motivated by their bigotries. Don't be a dumbass. Don't defend voting for Donald Trump. Shame them instead, so they never even consider saying out loud that they are Pro Trump. Give him a reason to retire after one term. Shame his voters.
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NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If someone voted for Obama then they cannot be racist. That level of derp berns.
Squinch
(52,787 posts)voted for Obama went for Trump in any large numbers. It is much more likely that this election galvanized a very different segment of the "sometimes votes" contingent. The segment that came out this time was the racists and sexists, and the segment that stayed home was the lukewarm Obama voter.
Squinch
(52,787 posts)voter. They are not a bloc. They are quite split. Into those who are racist and sexist and voted for trump, and those who actually cared about jobs and were not racist and sexist and voted for Hillary.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2638337
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)So, the usual suspects have largely ignored it.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)
BumRushDaShow
(142,497 posts)
I have been thinking this and posting the same since the election.
IMHO, I think there were moderate GOP who did not vote the top of the ticket but they were replaced by seldom or previous NON-VOTER GOP who "heard" the clarion call of Drumpf, and came out of the woods and off the farms when the Pied Piper of Manhattan came to town. I even indicated that Drumpf was the "Obama" to this other group. Just like Obama pulled seldom or previous NON-VOTER Democrats out to vote, Drumpf did the same.
This is why we have seen the uptick of racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-Semitic rhetoric and actual attacks. This previously non-participatory group have now been "activated" like terroristic sleeper cells and are emboldened to expose themselves for who they are, thanks to Pandora's box now open.
Yet Democrats are being told to "embrace" these people who are "in pain" because according to the GOP, their way of life has been disrupted by those members of "other" (poaching) demographics. I.e., those in demographics who struggled and fought and competed against all odds, with massive barriers to leap over, to try to succeed.... but in doing so, have of course taken something from them.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)
raging moderate
(4,503 posts)That's just the way of the world, and many hardworking people in the world have had their lifestyles disrupted without hiring the world's worst goons to strike out at some other group just because they could. I have watched extreme right-wingers at rallies and in interviews and in other places. Time and again, I watch these people bellowing as if they are in pain, although they are obviously well-fed, well-clothed, well-equipped with great cars and fancy guns and large houses, and gifted with a generous amount of leisure time. More than I ever had when I was in the workforce. I keep wondering, "What do they really have to be angry about? Don't they know how lucky they are?" Why do they always think they are the only ones who work hard? It seems to me that what they are being "deprived" of is the freedom to bully others with impunity.
BumRushDaShow
(142,497 posts)In fact, an ARSENAL of guns and ammunition, little of it for actual hunting, and apparently much of it "for show", which is part of what gives the U.S. the statistic of having more guns than people.
(article from a year ago - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/04/the-number-of-americans-vs-the-number-of-guns-in-america-visualized-through-history/)
greatauntoftriplets
(176,864 posts)Can't imagine why anyone would think they did.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Begabig
(76 posts)... and were driven by race or an actual love of Trump.
Most that I've run into were just voting against the alternative though.
Squinch
(52,787 posts)ultimate power in the world. By definition, that makes them racist and sexist.
paleotn
(19,206 posts)They may not do or say the same things as racists, misogynists and nativists. But since that behavior doesn't affect them directly, they simply don't care. I find them even more disgusting than overt racists and sexists, because at least you know where they stand verses those who'd not sully themselves with it, but maintain an environment where evil is tolerated.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...it's easier to keep a conversation going that way. It's also easier to prove then just out and out calling someone racist.
I'm also not of the opinion that not paying attention to racism makes you racist as some people here are.
mcar
(43,519 posts)Some on this board have criticized me for it. 
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
lunasun
(21,646 posts)accepting the white supremists who ran his campaign and soon go to the WH with trump
heaven05
(18,124 posts)geez
they know that an avowed white supremacist/anit-semitic/racist/white nationalist is the trumpfuhrer in waitings CHIEF STRATEGIST and that Alec Jones is a personal friend of the potusfuhrer-in-waiting and that a national leader of the KKK, david duke, endorsed this reptile getting ready to slither into the WH and who DID NOT disavow that endorsement, so 99% WERE driven by a hate and fear of the brown people and other minorities striving for equal rights in a now extremely BROKEN society. Broken by hate, racism, xenophobia, bigotry and with steve bannon and alec jones having the ear of the snakefuhrer-in-waiting, there IS anti-semitic thought also, along with having a hate for those 'others' mentioned above. How people can be so willfully blinded by their hate that they are not able to understand and see that out of control train barreling down that track with the driver asleep at the controls, ten propane cars in the train is going to blow us all to hell, not just the 'others' they hate and despise so much. How ameriKKKan can be so hateful and stupid is now beyond me.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,904 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Shaming definition, the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of doing , or thinking something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc.,
In England a friend told me they call the UKIP The Inhumanes
Tories are conservative enough he said but UKIP policy is inhumane
Coolest Ranger
(2,034 posts)That's how my grandfather was born. A white man kept having sex with his mother and when my cousin had a DNA test done recently she found out that she had white blood in her. So when I asked my grandmother about it she said yes its true that my great, great, grandfather was a white man
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And too scared to run away. But I guess people will just tell us that it showed how 'wanted and loved and appreciated' we were that Massa tried so hard to keep us there.
treestar
(82,383 posts)not to be racists and their whining at being called such. They are racists, period, they should own it at least. There is no way to justify voting for the Orange Cheeto.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)A non racist would not even think to think they were included. The fact that they defend those people just shows how connected they feel to them
brush
(57,615 posts)I got a post hidden for responding that "apparently you voted for Trump".
She/he denied it but I think she/he doth protest too much, just doesn't want to admit to a Trump vote.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just TOO defensive
mythology
(9,527 posts)After all, owning black people and raping them is just like voting for them to the most powerful office in the world. No difference at all.
We get it. You think everything in the world boils down to race. From voting for President to whether or not somebody likes Kayne West's music. Unfortunately for your simplistic world view, the world is more complicated than you think.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Even my family. We are one of the groups he demonized, but my cousin's black ass hates mexicans so it was fine to call black folks lazy. He didn't mean that.
7962
(11,841 posts)never expected that either
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JustinL
(722 posts)According to the latest CNN exit poll update, 8% of blacks and 28% of Hispanics voted for the fascist, compared to 6% and 27% for Romney, respectively.
7962
(11,841 posts)Bottom line is few people would expect trump to get MORE black votes than Romney
Nobody i know wouldve expected it
brush
(57,615 posts)Remember, Romney was running against an African American.
Trump getting 8% is nothing great.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Who voted, voted for him...
joshcryer
(62,491 posts)It's repackaged as something else, economic populism, the whole nine yards, but it's clear and unambigious that that's what happened.
Nwgirl503
(406 posts)All over the world, depending on the language, a chair has many different names. At the end of the day, no matter what you call it, it's still a place to park your butt. People everywhere share certain basic traits and attributes. Doesn't matter what you call it or what you name it.
If it makes someone feel better to try and remove themselves from accountability by way of claiming ignorance or non-active culpability, I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to give them a pass. I'm not one of those people. Guilty by association is forgivable and over-lookable for something as innocuous as a sports team affiliation. But when people's basic rights, freedoms and liberties are the line? I personally take a much harder stance.
Don't want to be mistaken for a chair? Don't have 4 legs, a back and be pushed up under my dining room table.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,904 posts)
True_Blue
(3,063 posts)In fact, it was a deal maker for the KKK, alt-right, Nazis, white supremacists that showed up in full force on Election Day.
Racism aside, I haven't seen a more unqualified, inexperienced, dangerously mentally unstable presidential candidate in my entire life than Trump and I'm pretty old.
frankieallen
(583 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)hueymahl
(2,647 posts)Not all. I wish it was that simple. It would make it much easier to dismiss them as deplorables.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If I notice in my local political rally a bunch of guys in sheets clapping for my candidate, I'd get the fuck outta dodge
hueymahl
(2,647 posts)I'm just not ready to dismiss everyone. I think some can be saved.
mcar
(43,519 posts)Are racist enablers. My neighbor voted Trump to "drain the swamp." He told me he chose to ignore Trump's hate speech so he could get what he wanted. That is enabling hate.
Docreed2003
(17,815 posts)I think that's really what it boils down to.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)brush
(57,615 posts)campaign into our party, that they would leave their racist attitudes behind.
IMO, getting them into the party is the quickest way to splinter this party.
Iggo
(48,280 posts)What more do you people need to know?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Iggo
(48,280 posts)Case closed, reverse racists!
Paladin
(28,778 posts)If the Democratic Party wants to throw away its solid voting bases in a vain pursuit of the Dumb White Guy segment of the population who went so heavily for Trump, then to hell with the Democratic Party that I've been a member of, my whole life. Let Trump's odious behavior and constantly broken promises drive the worthwhile portion of the white working class back to us; those who continue to cling to Trump won't be worth our time and effort.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)who actually helps them
Paladin
(28,778 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,609 posts)No, she's not racist. Yes, she's been programmed to fear the Clintons. We picked a candidate that has her own trigger word.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bad Thoughts
(2,609 posts)She was reductive when it came to what Clinton has done and what she represents.
You are being reductive by trying to lump all Trump votes with that half who are racist. Let's face it: the air of corruption was her weak point, and Comey used it to his advantage.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I tell my cousin every dumb plan to take his 'benefits' that comes from the right. I email them to him and send them by pm to his facebook. He is terrified about their medicare plans because he loves his medicare. He will literally die without it. I make sure he knows daily that it will be gone soon.
Buckeye_Democrat
(15,044 posts)Maybe some of them hated the idea of a female President so much that they voted for Trump even when they didn't like his racism? Heck, maybe a few African American males did that?
That's not a great example since there's probably lots of crossover among misogynists and racists, but my main point is that sometimes people ally themselves with people/organizations with qualities they highly dislike because other issues override them.
Married white evangelicals almost certainly voted for Trump based on exit polls. White evangelicals (who comprised about 36% of the white voters according to CNN's exit polls) chose Trump over Clinton by 80% to 16%, and married whites strongly voted for him too. I also read an article awhile back that stated people who are white, "born again" and married are the most reliable Republican voters by far. They're about as reliable to vote for the Republican candidate as African Americans voting for the Democratic candidate in recent years.
My married "born again" sister might have voted for Trump (I don't even want to ask) and she's not racist. I saw her happily hug an African American preacher who performed the wedding of one of her children, and I don't think she'd care about anyone's skin color as long as they proclaimed themselves followers of Jesus. (She often interjects concerns about my salvation since I'm an agnostic, and she'd probably do it more often if I didn't tell her in the past that her proselytizing had an opposite effect on me.)
People can argue that people can still be racist even if they hug a black man with abandon or we've never heard them making racist comments, and that's true, but we could argue along those lines about everything. We're never going to know with certainty what's in other people's hearts.
Do I think Trump had more racist voters than Clinton did? Of course! A Reuters poll indicated that was the case:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-race-idUSKCN0ZE2SW
Even if we declare that all Trump voters are racist, what's that supposed to accomplish?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)to fix in themselves than I can help with. I only do racism and sexism in Decembers.
I am now charging one dollar to anybody who wants a response to 'they kissed a black baby, so they cannot be racist' posts. Massa kissed black babies that he raped into their mothers, then promptly sold them. It was okay, he was a Good Christian.
Buckeye_Democrat
(15,044 posts)Owning/raping/selling black people > kissing black babies
in the racism equation.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Besides. Taking his slaves hurt him economically for DECADES. He only kept the slaves to feed his poor family. It's the economy stupid.!
That will be one dollar please!
Buckeye_Democrat
(15,044 posts)The evidence indicates otherwise.
I'm sure there are some bigger racists among Hillary voters compared to some Trump voters. What if a Hillary voter refuses to hire any AA people at their company (for no reason other than skin color), but a Trump voter does? Who's showing more racism in that example?
Do I think there's a far bigger percentage of Trump voters who are racist? Yep. Did their vote make minorities in this country even more vulnerable? Yep.
Do I also think some people are so disconnected and self-centered that they focused on Trump's messages that they (wrongly) think could help them and their families, while downplaying the racist ones? Yep. Many people hear what they want to hear, elevating some parts and downplaying others.
I also think Trump increases our risk of nuclear war based on his ignorance, huge ego and bad temperament. I was on another forum months ago and some Trump voters downplayed that possibility too -- e.g., "No President can do that alone! Give me a break!" I've even seen that attitude here despite how a President can indeed act alone with the nuclear football, with military personnel trained to carry out the orders quickly rather than question them.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)it accomplishes awareness among people who are in direct danger of being recipients of racist hate to remain aware of their surroundings and who are around them AT ALL TIMES so as to be able to run or defend oneself against the brownshirt shithordes of the trumpfuhrerPOS-in-waiting.
I see all the people here who can melt into a crowd who are trying to normalize the hate involved in voting for a person with an avowed WHITE SUPREMACIST(steve bannon) as CHIEF STRATEGIST IN THE WH are NOT at immediate risk so they don't really FEEL the hate growing exponentially out here against 'others'.... I Have seen it. I have felt it, I have retaliated or threatened retaliation to threats and disrespect against me because of my color.
No doubt misguided self-hating(couldn't convince them of that)AA, Latinos, Muslims, Gays and repub jews voted for the trumpfuhrerPOS-in-waiting. Doesn't take away from the fact that a overwhelming majority of voters for the new fuhrer, HATE 'others'. Period. Rationalize all you please because I can understand that you're probably are ashamed, as many people are, of your country now and the showing of it's true cultural nature, or as I tell my friends, who should be ashamed. I'm done with another 'splainer. geez
jmg257
(11,996 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)to infinity. These 'splainers of this time in this society trying to normalize hate, racism, bigotry are disgusting to say the least. But in reading german papers of the time-post 1933-of hitler, I imagine at first they and their society 'splainers did the same thing. NO DOUBT. Trumpfuhrer and the New Nazi Party of ameriKKKa aka repubparty, has followed and WILL FOLLOW, with small variations to throw off the hatefully gullible trumpfuhrer voter and MSM,the nazi playbook to the letter. This potusPOS-in-waiting might as well had written Mein Kampf II.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)To act more like Hitler.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)they are already intimating that fact to us ignorant democrats......
They really don't think that we can rationalize, think using logic and reason and see the danger to all 'others' than racist white males/females now. The people who are 'splaining think we are part of the unwashed dumbed down minions of this society that aren't capable of their intellectual reach. Careful out there.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
Buzz Clik This message was self-deleted by its author.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why the constant rants and firings of folks who claim their nonracistism but then yell racist shit? Why did hillary win voters who said the economy was their main concern if it was the economic message that worked?
The things that people tell me that made them vote Donald that is based on the economy is always about nafta, something negotiated by GHWB. They also complain about muslims in the same breath. The first is ignorance. The second is racist. They had multiple reasons for voting donald!! Muslims, mexicans, black thugs, nafta, and Bill.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)However, it is quite possible that your OP may be functioning exactly as you want: opening a heated debate on this subject.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)raging moderate
(4,503 posts)If you aren't a racist, then the OP is not talking about you.
We have been trained to tell lies without knowing it. We have to retrain our thoughts. Ramses did NOT build ANY pyramids; he languidly pointed a finger and peevishly issued a demand, and others built the pyramids. The slave masters did NOT feed, house, or clothe ANY slaves; in fact, the slaves fed, housed, and clothed the masters. The slave economy was NOT a charity organization, or even an honest economy.
Response to raging moderate (Reply #110)
Buzz Clik This message was self-deleted by its author.
raging moderate
(4,503 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 6, 2016, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)
Sometimes I'm thinking it, but, as you say, it is not a question that will lead to any positive conversation.
George II
(67,782 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Clothing twice a year! Love those ignrates to death. Literally. To death.
Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)Somehow we have this whole society of systemic racism but when you go looking, no one is a racist! It must be magic!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Gothmog
(154,595 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(176,864 posts)That kind of post boggles the mind.
ancianita
(38,603 posts)
BigBadDem
(29 posts)Sure I can shame a few (or most) of my family members at the Christmas dinner, but that won't be enough to change the outcome.
How do we do this on a national level? Especially since the voters are so segregated in so many ways, geography, income and race and religion which will mean different neighborhoods. Does the act of shaming mean travelling to those places and shaming strangers?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was easy for them to pivot to their faborite whipping girl before, but now they have nobody to pivot to that can get even half the traction for them that Hillary and Bill did.
BigBadDem
(29 posts)That tells me how shaming will be more effective than ever, but as far as reaching those that aren't family and friends seen often, how do we do this to really make a difference?
If you live in NYC or San Fransisco or Detroit, chances are you don't account any Trump people...ifthey are there then they are "undercover"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The more we tell them the more people hear that 'Trump voters are racist'. Just like hearing 'Crooked Hillary' made folks swear she murdered somebody. We won millions more votes. We can win by driving out voters who are opposed to racist ass lying ass shameful trump. The more mistakes he makes the ore we need to shame them for voting for an unqualified dumb ass racist pig.
BigBadDem
(29 posts)?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Thousands of them surround me. I'm friendly, so I know hundreds. Yes. They mostly save their racism for muslims, yes oh yes
BigBadDem
(29 posts)How are you doing it to such a large amount and making it effective? I can see how you could do it with 5-6, but hundreds? Are they really shamed, or do all of them look at you like a whacko?
That is what i was getting at about making htis nation. It sounds like you need back-up or people to join you in the shaming in your area. None of this FB posts, and twitter bullshit. That is for slacktivists who don't make a difference, and your feed will only show up to those that are like-minded.
This stuff needs to be worked out for the shaming campaign to make a difference by 2018.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I do it as I hand my cousin the groceries I pay for to feed his stupid ass self that hates mexicans so much he voted trump. I shame my stepdad. I do it on days ending with a Y everywhere I go. I rant about him taking medicare and I complain about him raiding the SS fund.
Nobody needs to join me. I am fucking great at looking dead at a fucker in a maga hat and saying, "so which group of people do you think we should put on a registry along with the muslims. I bet Jesus would LOVE that IDEA!! Go KING TRUMP!"
BigBadDem
(29 posts)I'd tell them to fuck off and get off their lazy asses and get a job, just like Trump wants them too.
How do you do it with those you don't know...unless you have hundreds of family members in that town...is it WV or something? It would make sense then.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)
IronLionZion
(46,987 posts)many people know that things were greater for them when certain other types were blocked out by discrimination.
The problem with make America great again is that it wasn't as great for minorities or women or gays back in the day. People are often fine with throwing others under the bus.
There were some very enlightening tweets posted online about people who claimed they were willing to give Trump a chance before finding out the hard way that Trump's alt-right supporters don't consider them to be "white" or "American". For example a Jewish person was shocked to find out Trumpers don't consider him white even though Jared Kushner is Jewish. And a mixed race person being called derogatory racial names even though Katrina Pearson is mixed race. Or African Americans hoping to get some more jobs in their neighborhoods before realizing Trumpers think their lives matter less, even though Lynne Patton is black and promised us that all lives matter to the Trumps.
It exposes the hypocrisy.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I watched the hypocrisy in person. It is bizzarre and there in no way to help them see it by talking to them or trying to 'educate' them. It has to hurt them in some way to be seen as something bad or distasteful. Nothing else works with them.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)BIG TIME........................
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Deplorables, one and all. Racist and/or ignorant and/or homophobic and/or stupid and/or misogynist, and/or hypocrites, etc. etc. etc. And now a bunch of them are acting out their hate and ignorance. Ah I feel better for having let that out. I'm so glad DU is back.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)steventh
(2,156 posts)I agree. We who have been quiet would do well to speak up for the good of ourselves and the good of our country. I have a list of news media contacts...
http://www.nytix.com/Links/TV/articles/newsmediacontacts.html
...and I will be speaking (emailing) to them.
still_one
(96,572 posts)racist, sexist, and xenophobic views.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and rape their slaves.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
betsuni
(27,258 posts)
DemonGoddess
(5,123 posts)You know, after reading all of this, I've gotta say, I'm also doing the same. Anyone I know who admits to supporting Trumpenstein, I shame. I keep doing it, too. Don't give a damn where I am, or who it is.
This INCLUDES my youngest son, by the way, and one of my BILS.
We can't show these people ANY mercy.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I like to say, "oh now you're shocked! But when the KKK endorsed your guy, that was just peachy keen." They really hate being reminded about the kkk. They cannot explain why it did not turn them off without stuttering or talking in circles and getting mad.