Any postmortem without the mention of Comey, voter suppression and Russia being MAJOR factors ...

[uponit7771]

... that were a part of Clinton's loss is bout damn useless at this point no?

Comey, Voter Suppression and Russia were the well DOCUMENTED and AGREED upon outside factors regarding this election... THERE'S NO GUESSING ABOUT THEM.... and ignoring them, relative to post election facts, seems to try and give people a false sense of self control and isn't going after something that will truly change future elections.

Even if we agree this outside factors played little part (which I don't agree with that) the fact that the played ANY ... ANY part is fuckin HORRIBLE and should be part of any post analysis.

Facts that aren't in dispute

- If heads of federal agencies are allowed to effect elections (whether for or against DNC) to ANY degree by intimating one of the candidates are being invesitgated for something ... 11 DAYS.. before a general election and while people are early voting then this should be a major part of post election analysis.

- If Voter suppression is allowed in key states, including kicking people off the voter rolls without voters knowing it via some list, then it should be part and mention of any post election analysis

- If outside actor states are allowed to act in benefit of one candidate or the other (no matter who the candidate is) then these factor should be a salient part of any analysis.

Seems like all this "Clinton is ... Bernie is... DNC is... " without a focus on these factors is a distraction

Your take?

tia

P.S. These factors are NOT CONSPIRACY THEORY CRAP (what for the LPC member FUD on this issue) the aforementioned factors are well documented and agreed upon even by Fuck Mouth (his mentioning of one of two of them in Time Magazine)

P.S.S - Voter Suppression ... IS .... IS ... a FORM of election fraud period end of story... that's also a fact not in dispute

[JHan]

1. Yeah I can multitask and look at many varied reasons why this year was rough..

some can't and going with the "democrats have shut their doors to working people" narrative because it suits their agenda...

[uponit7771]

5. Right, relative to the facts that seems like a distraction too... Clinton's platform was way more

... progressive than Fuck Mouths

[progressoid]

9. and going with "it's Bernie's fault" narrative because it suits their agenda...

[JHan]

11. uh huh

[R B Garr]

39. Yet Bernie's whole platform was--Its Hillary's fault!

[uponit7771]

40. don't know what he gained in going so negative

[blm]

2. Agree - and why let GOP off the hook for vote-suppression tactics that should be considered ILLEGAL

in any state by every citizen?

[Botany]

3. Don't forget the unceasing and unneeded hearings into about nothing

This was a coup.

[uponit7771]

6. YES !!! 100,000 million on some fucked up hearings that went no where

[Botany]

7. But they provided cover for the "Crooked Hillary" meme

they were modern day Joe McCarthy hearings .... republicans are political terrorists

[uponit7771]

12. Yeap, there's got to be some tactical fight against this from grass roots if the DNC members are..

... going to be lax about responses to GOP bullshit.

Just saying its wrong doesn't get the proper narrative and attention, I'm think there should be a fake news sights against the GOP so we can get the word out

[Tanuki]

23. Yes, it's no coincidence that Roy Cohn nurtured Trump and

helped chart the course of his career. Cohn was Joe McCarthy's chief counsel at the infamous hearings.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.html

[Botany]

24. It used to be if you were linked to Roy Cohn, the mob, fraudulent scams, and sexual assualt then ...

..... had no chance of being President.

[Madam45for2923]

4. Agree with all you said!

[mcar]

8. K&R

[Pacifist Patriot]

10. Spot on!

Absent those factors we could be having discussions regarding campaign strategies, likeability, etc. Given these factors actually exist, other forms of speculation are essentially worthless in my opinion.

[uponit7771]

13. Yeap, with voter suppression 18 isn't looking too good seems DNC can make that a platform issue

... by showing mostly white people being disenfranchised by their voter suppression efforts.

That would be slick

[Cha]

14. Thank you, uponit. Yeah, Reality!

[dhill926]

15. totally agree....

but the assholes control the narrative...

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. To those three, the media must be added.

One Hillary's email non-event was more important than dozens and dozens of Trump's far more serious issues.

The media either got played, or played all who watched. Either way, it worked.

[Aimee in OKC]

18. And 'social media' c. 3.8 million pre-election Tweets were chatbots ...

"According to the University of Southern California (USC) study, the 2016 US Presidential election has been influenced by chatbots interacting with social media, also called social bots.

The study concluded that 19% of the 20 million Tweets in a five week period just prior to the election were created by social bots."

http://techseen.com/2016/11/08/age-chatbots/

* * *
So, from Oct. - Nov., about 3,800,000 Tweets were by chatbots.

A Russian chatbot actually passed the Turing Test in 2014. {See the techseen.com article.}

And we know, officially, Russia interfered with our election.

The KGB (of whom Putin was one) were masters of deception, misdirection, and sowing of dissent among allies. "Divide and conquer" has been a valid strategy since before the Romans used it.

* * * * * * *

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512643651#post89

[uponit7771]

22. Yes, I think its politico that had an article that there was 3 times as much coverage of her non

... issue emails than all the issues combined

[GummyBearz]

17. Voter suppression

But she won the popular vote by like 2.5 million+ votes. Two things that don't seem to make sense when put together

[brush]

20. Not so IMO. Without voter suppression she would have won the popular vote by even more.

[uponit7771]

36. +1

[uponit7771]

21. With the EC in mind VS measures don't have to be widespread just in states that effect the outcome

... of an election.

Look at the 10 "swing" states... how many of them have implemented VS measures

[KPN]

19. Don't forget to add

fielding a vulnerable candidate to that list!

[Fast Walker 52]

25. except ALL Dem candidates are vulnerable. The media and GOP are aligned institutionally to

take down Dems, and treat them as a lesser party. Republicans get away with everything, pretty much. Dems not so much.

[Justice]

26. Already covered here over and over and over but ignore the factors in the OP

[uponit7771]

27. Opinion and not fact, the three mentioned are FACT BASED factors not what I or you think about them

[KPN]

41. BS. They are all fact based ... and you know it.

I'm not saying Hillary shouldn't have won or that any of the other factors didn't affect the outcome, but she was always vulnerable, including among democrats and independents.

[niyad]

28. and misogyny

[mythology]

29. If you are including Comey then you have to include s

Up the email server in the first place. Yes Powell did something similar, but Clinton should have known how it would look, especially given the preexisting reputation the Clintons have.

Yes Republicans would have gone after after her after her on something, but things like Benghazi didn't stick. Without the email server, Comey wouldn't have had anything to investigate.

[uponit7771]

30. I'm including Comey because he was clearly in the wrong that's not opinion. Clinton's email

... server isn't opinion either but as part of a MAJOR factor relative to what Comey did its not even close.

Clinton's email server infraction was solved as a non crime ... Comey's letter has NOT been solved as a non crime, was sent out 11 days before a national election against agency rules and BOTH side agree that it played some part... how big of a part is in dispute and doesn't matter ... that it played a part means its fucking disgusting in and of itself.

Comey's memo sets a horrible precedence now; any agency head can now just say they're investigating a candidate days before an election and point to Comey as a reason why the shouldn't be prosecuted.

also

Clinton's server is not a agreed upon factor of fact that affected the election but many would say its the M$M covering it 3x more than any other issue being a factor... so email server is a factor that IS in dispute.

[SunSeeker]

31. The two letters that tanked her 11 days before the elected were based on NOTHING.

It came out of his investigation of Weiner, not Hillary. He didn't event see the emails before sending out those letters. He would have figured out a way to violate the Hatch Act based on some other Trumped up bullshit if not the emails.

And if Bernie was the nominee, Comey would have investigated the loan Sanders' wife procured that ended up tanking her Vermont college...or some other thing. Republicans always find something and play it up.

[uponit7771]

33. +1 YES!!.... the fact that Comey injected himself into the election isn't disputed by both sides ...

... the dispute is how much of a factor it played.

[Liberal In Red State]

32. Absolutely . . . and if we don't get it fixed or working at fixing the problems liberals will be

losing elections in the future.

[uponit7771]

34. yeap, we can run the best candidates on the planet ... with voter suppression they win

[LaydeeBug]

35. Pretending it's anything else lets THEM frame the narrative. nt

[KittyWampus]

37. Clinton didn't do what she needed to do in the Rust Belt. The other factors

are the noise she and her team were supposed to be able to mitigate by being professionals.

[uponit7771]

38. That's opinion, GOP voter suppression efforts are well documented and not in dispute

[triron]

42. knr