If a large group of blacks voted en masse for a black nationalist who preached hatred of whites

[EffieBlack]

and, in so doing, helped to swing the election for a different candidate one way or another (since never in a million years would a black nationalist who preached hatred of whites garner enough votes to win anything), would white Democrats (or white Republicans for that matter) spend any serious time and effort "reaching out" to those black voters and tell their supporters they should be more sympathetic to their concerns and try harder to understand and embrace them?

Or would they say, "those people are crazy" and then do their damndest to generate enough votes from within their ranks and elsewhere to ensure that they could outvote the "crazies" the next time around?

[bravenak]

1. Glad you made this point!!!!

Lord! They would all be running to climb over each other to be the first to denounce us for being racist as hell against white people and nothing we could say would shut them up.

[EffieBlack]

5. You don't think they'd buy the "they're not racist-they just liked his economic message?" argument?

[Garrett78]

8. Of course not.

Even if that black nationalist wasn't a billionaire who has his products made overseas, hadn't made it clear that the wealthiest would receive tax breaks while the lowest income earners would see their taxes go up, had a long history of sexual assault, ran a fraudulent "University," celebrated the housing collapse because he could profit off it, etc.

Even if that black nationalist instead had a very reasonable, progressive economic message (like, say, Clinton did). Even then you wouldn't hear people justifying a vote for that person based on his "economic message."

You know it, I know it, we all know it.

[JI7]

2. old black people who lived through legalized segregation are treated horribly if they say anything

bad about white people.

there is a fucking double standard with race and i'm really getting disgusted at those who try to make racist whites out to be the victims.

[EffieBlack]

6. Unbelievable, isn't it?

Nothing like watching people whitesplain to old black folk.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

9. Why does it need to be about race in the first place? If someone is an asshole then call them on it

And call it a damn day. Yes, there are some idiot white supremacists. Guess what...everyone with half a brain knows they are idiots and don't agree with them. Yes, Trump's nasty rhetoric emboldened them and people need to stand up against them.

If you think for a single second that blaming all white working class people for what a few morons think, do and say is going to make things better you are making a terrible, terrible mistake. This divisive happy horseshit on this site does NOT help at all. There are many, many allies who have been on the side of equality for a very long time who are being repeated insulted and demonized and that's just plain stupid.

[JI7]

10. we are talking about people who voted for Trump and there are people who defend them if they are

working class.

we have already been saying those who had economy as a top concern voted for Hillary Clinton.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

14. Yes and there are many people on this forum with people they love who voted for Trump

These are people they KNOW and who they KNOW are not fricking racists. Yet they have to listen to some of you attack them and denigrate, demonize and slander them over and over and over and over again ad nauseaum EVERY GODDAMNED day. It's getting old.

I have family members who voted for him who I have known for 50 years who you have never met. I KNOW they are not racists and don't hate anyone, yet you all just keep right on attacking them and you know what...it's pissing me off and offending me VERY DEEPLY.

Many of you are completely blind to the fact that even though you desperately want to make it all about race it was only about t hat for the alt right. The working class voted on the economy and they've been saying that time and time again but instead of listening and learning what went wrong you just keep right on demonizing and attacking.

If your goal is to alienate more voters you're doing a bang up job.

[JI7]

15. they listened to Trump denigrate , demonize and slander people and VOTED TO MAKE HIM FUCKING

PRESIDENT.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

17. Because Democrats failed them for too long

And no party is entitled to votes. They need to earn them and they failed to do that.

[JI7]

19. democrats failed them by supporting civil rights. explain why the fuck they didn't support feingold

?

but supported pro free trade , pro corporate ron johnson ?

[treestar]

58. Then they are stupidly vengeful against their

Own interests and in favor of right wing interests. Face that.

[True_Blue]

31. They had no issues about voting for a racist

Anyone opposed to racism would not vote for a racist period!

[DoctorMyEyes]

53. Sorry you have Nazi sympathizers in your family

and people that you love - but even Hitler had a girlfriend and a dog. I hate to break it to you, but your family members are either closet racists or dumb as posts - either way they are more of a problem than a solution. YOU go ahead and reach out to them. The rest of us have better shit to do.

[treestar]

57. Sounds like you desperately want to

Defend some family members no matter what they have done. You are on a democratic board defending people who voted for the most vile republican who ever ran. Face reality about these family members. I've had to.

[Garrett78]

12. Clinton won among the working class. She won among those for whom the top issue is the economy.

If a portion of white working class voters have much different expectations or priorities than the working class as a whole, ask yourself why that might be.

A "few morons," eh? Wow do you underestimate the number of bigots in the US.

[brush]

13. Why does it need to be about race? Come on, this is America, it's always about race

Naivete or denial or both are strong around here.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

20. I've never seen so many people be so racially divisive as I am seeing here

It's disgusting. And yes, we all know Trump is racially divisive...I'm talking about people NOT candidates.

This bullshit is turning me off so bad that I think I'm done voting for Democrats now. I'm a white working class voter so I don't belong here. I'm not welcome under this ever shrinking tent. The economy and surviving is the most important issue to me as well and apparently economic justice is no longer part of social justice so maybe I haven't been voting for the right side.

[brush]

22. You're probably right. There isn't much sympathy for Trump voters or those who defend them here.

Bye bye.

[JI7]

23. lol, shows how much you know about racism and what poc deal with all the fucking time.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

26. I know better than you know, thanks...

I have immediate family members who are black, hispanic, LGBT and disabled. As a single mother who had the living shit beat out of me and who has been homeless multiple times I've been discriminated against too. A lot of landlords will rent to a black man before a single woman with children. A lot of bosses will hire the black man before a single mother.

As I've said before...I am a swing voter, not a Democrat. Without people like me voting for Democratic candidates you WILL LOSE. If you attack voters you need then you DESERVE to lose.

[JI7]

27. wow, you seem resentful towards minorities and with threats .......

[EffieBlack]

29. You really think your shit doesn't stink, don't you?

Since you are a "swing voter," please swing your ass on over to the Republicans since they're a much better fit for you than we are. You'll be happier there and we won't have to deal with you getting in the way of what we need to do while lecturing us about why we should kiss Trump voters asses.

Bye.

[DoctorMyEyes]

54. Wow...

I think what you're describing here are "white tears".

[Chitown Kev]

25. LOL

I've never seen so many people be so racially divisive as I am seeing here

[EffieBlack]

28. If black people talking about our experience with race makes you so angry you won't vote Democratic

good riddance . . .

But first, let me tell you something.

People of color don't have the luxury of picking and choosing when to talk about race and when to ignore it. It's in our face every damned day. And the only thing nearly as annoying as having to deal with this constantly, whether we like it or not, is having white people like you lecture us about whether and when we can and should talk about race.

Please take your whitesplaining somewhere else. I'm not interested in it. And since, after all that you should have seen, you're still not clear on whether you're on the right side, you have already chosen your side. Please go over there with the Trumpians and leave those of us who get it and care to do what we have to do.

Bye.

[Crunchy Frog]

33. Please don't confuse a message board for a party.

DU is not the Democratic party. If you're going to reject the Democratic party, do it on the basis of what the party itself says and does, and not on the basis of what anonymous posters on a message board have to say.

You'd probably be better off leaving DU and getting involved in the actual party. I certainly have to get out of here periodically.

[treestar]

59. You don't belong here

You are correct. Look at the TOS.

[lunasun]

3. K&R Hello and Thank You!

[Garrett78]

4. We all know the answer to that question. But some will ignore or obfuscate your point.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

7. I might not like their choice but I would not stereotype all of those who voted for them

And yes, I would still talk to those people and even ask them why they voted that way because I would want to know. I would never make assumptions about entire groups of people having identical motivations for how they vote. Doing that would be bigoted and close minded.

[JI7]

11. they voted for a candidate who ran an openly bigoted campaign . that's what his campaign was about

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

16. For some people it was

And for the rust belt it was about what Democrats failed to do to help desperate families who needed help.

[JI7]

18. for most people it was about bigotry that's why they voted for a candidate who attacked

groups of other people.

it wasn't hillary clinton who was attacking anyone. it was trump and they voted to make him president.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

21. That's a lie

If you don't know people you can't know what compelled them to vote the way they did.

[JI7]

24. i know they are ok with bigoted attacks on minorities since they voted for the one who did that to

be president.

[Chitown Kev]

30. I'm willing to bet that you probably think that many minorities

only voted for HRC because of "identity politics, though...as if a trump voter can't or wouldn't vote because of "identity politics of their own.

[uponit7771]

39. They still tolerated DPutins bigotry, that's still not good

[Crunchy Frog]

32. I would hope that they would try to understand and address the legitimate grievances

that had led so many people to that point.

I'm not saying that they would, but that they should. I wouldn't dismiss them a "crazy". I would say that they were hurting really badly and that the system was failing them, and I'd want to try to figure out how to turn that around. That's just me, though.

[JI7]

34. yeah, but reality is that most white people don't even like blm

which isn't even about supporting someone for any office .

most white people can't even feel for black mothers whose children die from police abuse.

but minorities are supposed to feel for white people who voted for a vile bigot .....

and blm is one of the reasons many white people supported trump. they did not like black people protesting and demanding justice.

[mythology]

38. Part of the problem Black Lives Matter has is that they protest some things that turn out

to not be an issue. Granted there is a good reason for that, in that the protest itself helps provide more of a transparent investigation, but investing all of that energy into the Michael Brown case when it turned out to be a legally justified shooting that didn't happen the way the original claims of Brown having his hands up associates them with the idea of them just being against white people. It's a variation of the Cassandra dilemma.

Likewise the genius in Seattle who protested Sanders and also wore a white people's tears shirt is needlessly divisive that furthers the idea that Black Lives Matters isn't actually about promoting a more equal society. I somehow can't imagine Dr King wearing that shirt. The problem with having a leaderless movement is that it's hard to disavow somebody who claims the mantle while acting like a petulant jackass.

[uponit7771]

40. So if they're 5% incorrect they're 100% wrong? Isn't that a high bar set up for failure? tia

[JI7]

47. why do demand more for blm.But for presidEnt trump us just great ?

[EffieBlack]

35. That's great but it doesn't answer my question.

I didn't ask how you would feel or what you would do. I asked if the party would actively reach out to those voters and tell people we must understand and embrace them.

I have no doubt that the answer is no. And, sadly, plenty of individuals would follow suit. You, I suspect, would be an exception.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. It would be a poor decision on their part if they did respond as you suggest.

AAs are a core constituency of the party. If they did turn en masse away from the Dems, and towards an extremist demogogue, that's a sign of something gone horribly wrong with both the party and the country. The Dems had better try to understand and repair this hypothetical situation, or risk becoming ever more irrelevant.

I'm not saying they would do the right thing; they probably wouldn't. Just that they should.

[betsuni]

36. K&R

[mcar]

41. Heads would be exploding

[UCmeNdc]

42. And then they got a russian intelligence service to flip the central tabulation machines to win...

[DemonGoddess]

43. Thank you Effie!

I don't CARE if someone claims not to be racist, yet voted for trumpler. The FACT that they openly supported this openly racist scumbag, says all I need to know about them as people.

[mythology]

44. You're setting up an inaccurate comparison

Trump's campaign wasn't expressly white nationalist. It was bigoted, it was full of hate, but he never once said to hate all black people or all immigrants. The closest you can argue is his approach to Islam. Yes I think he really does dislike blacks and Hispanics and Muslims and his treatment of women is horrible. But his contention was that he would bring jobs back to Americans. There is a very strong undercurrent of racism, but it wasn't front and center preaching hatred of minorities. It certainly appealed to those who do, but you're arguing against your own opinion of Trump rather than against his actual campaign.

[EffieBlack]

45. I didn't say the candidate in my hypo was "expressly" black nationalist. I just said they WERE one

You are splitting hairs.

It's very interesting to me to see the extent that some people will go to try to downplay what Trump is and does.

But the bottom line is that you could have stopped your post after "Trump's campaign was bigoted. It was full of hate." When a sentence begins that way, those words say it all and stand on their own; everything after the "but" is bullshit.

[Garrett78]

50. As I wrote above...

Even if that black nationalist wasn't a billionaire who has his products made overseas, hadn't made it clear that the wealthiest would receive tax breaks while the lowest income earners would see their taxes go up, had a long history of sexual assault, ran a fraudulent "University," celebrated the housing collapse because he could profit off it, etc...

Even if that black nationalist instead had a very reasonable, progressive economic message (like, say, Clinton did)...

Even then you wouldn't hear people justifying a vote for that person based on his "economic message." All you'd hear is outrage over crazy people voting for the Farrakhan-like candidate.

[uponit7771]

48. So he's not a white supremacists until he explicitly express's such? Really?!?!

[Quayblue]

49. A strong "undercurrent" is just as dangerous as outright racism nt

[uponit7771]

60. +1, there are too many people trying to normalize diet racist on DU

[ismnotwasm]

46. Oh one righteous kick and recommend!

[DoctorMyEyes]

51. Thank you!!!

I'm so sick of the "reaching out", "bringing in" "appealing to" convolutions. Overcome them. Period. Anything else is time and effort wasting at BEST.

[DemocraticWing]

52. Anybody that liberals/conservatives would call black nationalist is probably someone I'd vote for.

They are even trying to claim Keith Ellison is a racist black nationalist, as a smear.

[resistance2016]

55. White fragility makes me ashamed to be white

My feelings are NOT more important than the life of someone else.

[Quayblue]

56. Please don't be ashamed

But DO fight back.

[kcr]

61. Excellent post. It's such a double standard.

k&r