Remember when many of us thought the Dem primaries were rigged?

[KamaAina]

Doesn't seem so far-fetched now, does it? Not the DNC, but the Russians, who might have seen Bernie as the last obstacle to their diabolical plan to install Cheeto Benito as their puppet.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

1. ...

[Wellstone ruled]

2. That conversation happened on many

occasions. When our State Convention went South with the Chair Story,and how it was amped across the media that Saturday. Something smelled to high hell. And that reporter is still eating his shorts after the locals got his info. The Guy who gave him that story magical disappeared not to be heard from again.

[DURHAM D]

3. Nonsense.

Explain to me how you might rig a caucus.

[KamaAina]

4. Bernie won most of the caucus states.

So I guess you can't.

[otohara]

34. Low Low Turnout Is Rigged

When a state like Colorado has only 127,000 turnout it's rigged against the million registered Dems who couldn't hang out in tiny classrooms for 3 to 4 hours

[NWCorona]

6. Where in the op are caucuses singled out?

How quickly some forget about states like Arizona. Many here including me said if we don't fight now they will steal it in the GE. We were made fun of and called conspiracy theorists.

[maximillian1974]

5. Ummmm no

Except the fact that what Putin wanted was to ensure Hillary wasn't president. You think he woul help her ever?

[NWCorona]

7. Yes I remember vividly.

[NanceGreggs]

8. Did you notice ...

... that the GOP never said a word against Bernie during the primaries, while they continued to pound away at HRC?

We now know that the Republicans had oppo research on Bernie - why did they never use it?

We know that Republicans voted FOR Bernie in open primaries - why do you suppose they did that?

It was because the GOP wanted Bernie to be the nominee, because they knew he'd be easier to beat in the GE than Hillary.

Think it through. If the Republicans (or the Russians) were terrified of Bernie, they would have been bashing him 24/7 instead of ignoring him. They would have lightened-up on Hillary in order to give her a better shot at beating Bernie. They did the exact opposite.

If Bernie was seen as "the last obstacle" to installing Trump in the WH, they wouldn't have been holding back on the negative stuff they had about him, nor would they have continued bashing Hillary, thereby weakening her chances of getting the nomination.

In light of the actual facts, your theory makes no sense whatsoever.

[mtnsnake]

11. Your theory about the GOP wanting Bernie because he'd be easier to beat makes no sense either

because all the polls had Bernie beating Trump by a significantly wider margin than Hillary.

[NanceGreggs]

17. As has been explained repeatedly ...

... those polls were pointless, as Bernie had not yet been vetted; Republicans had not yet unleashed any negative info on him, nor had they even said a word against him. Experienced politicos on both sides of the aisle knew that such polls were meaningless.

So explain why - if they feared Bernie more than HRC - they said not a word against him during the primaries when it would have mattered. Why did they never release the negative info about Bernie they had in their possession?

If they so wanted HRC to be the nominee because they were afraid of Bernie, why did they continue going after her day after day on Benghazi and the emails - thereby making Bernie look like the better choice?

Again, it's a theory that makes no sense: We're terrified of Bernie winning, so let's not say a word against him while we continue to weaken his opponent's position. That way Bernie is sure to lose!

So explain to me how NOT going after Bernie was part of the big plan to ensure he DIDN'T win. If they honestly believed the polls that said Bernie could beat Trump, why weren't they hitting him with everything they had, instead of beating up his opponent 24/7 while never even uttering a word against him?

[duffyduff]

20. He'd have lost to Bloomberg and Trump.

Bernie wouldn't have won anything outside of Vermont, he was that unelectable.

Michael Bloomberg would have made good on his threat to run third party. He likely would have won.

[mtnsnake]

22. That's easy...

The reason they didn't go after Bernie like they did Hillary is because when they DID go after him, Bernie gave it right back to them and he didn't mince his words like so many other of our talking heads do.

And please don't tell me they never went after Bernie. Trump himself went after Bernie, calling him a Communist, and Trump paid the price for it because Bernie responded almost immediately calling Trump a pathological liar, among other things, when nobody else had the guts to call him that at the time.

They didn't go after Bernie as much as they did Hillary because they knew Bernie would dish it right back in their faces.

[EffieBlack]

25. The Russians were scared of Bernie?

Oh, ok ...

[mtnsnake]

28. No, not the Russians, Effie. The republicans.

And I didn't say "scared." I said "they knew Bernie would dish it right back in their faces" if they went after him.

[EffieBlack]

29. I think that was the last of their concerns

They laid off of Bernie because they didn't take him seriously and they weren't worried about him since he posed no threat to them. And if by some happenstance, he had gotten the nomination, they would have made mincemeat out of him by the end of June.

[mtnsnake]

31. Maybe so

but anyone who has watched Bernie over the course of the last few decades knows that he will not hesitate to give any republican a verbal beating if he feels they deserve it. Bernie is one tough cookie and he takes shit from no one. Now I'm not gonna sit here and say he would have won the general, had he been nominated, because to do so is pure speculation.

[EffieBlack]

32. Republicans couldn't care less about getting a "verbal beating" from Bernie Sanders

[Demsrule86]

48. What is tough about Bernie?

He has amendments that will never go anywhere and he gives advice to Democrats about 'fixing' a party he refuses to join.

[NanceGreggs]

30. They didn't "go after" Bernie ...

... during the primaries when it would have served their purposes, had they wanted Bernie to lose.

They held back on releasing the negative stuff they had on Bernie when it would have mattered.

They pounded on HRC 24/7 when, if they'd wanted Bernie to lose the nomination, they could have pounded on him instead.

Pretending that the GOP was afraid of Bernie is beyond ludicrous. If that were the case, they would have unleashed EVERY negative they'd uncovered about him, EVERY negative that was low-hanging fruit (like Mr. Transparency's refusal to release his full tax returns), EVERY fact at their disposal about how Bernie had dissed the party he was allegedly running for, et cetera.

Instead, they said NOTHING against him. And if you think that was out of fear, you are extremely naive about how politics works - and I do mean EXTREMELY naive.

These are the same people who promoted the idea that the POTUS, Obama, was a "secret Muslim" bent on the destruction of the US - and you think they didn't say anything against Bernie Sanders because he would "dish it right back at them"?

Are you REALLY THAT naive?

[mtnsnake]

33. Nance, the fact that you had to resort to insults, not once, but several times, speaks volumes

but what do I know...since I'm the naive one, and I mean EXTREMELY naive.

[NanceGreggs]

35. So counter my arguments.

Explain why the GOP refused to lay a glove on Bernie, despite living in terror of his possible candidacy.

Explain why people who had NO fear of calling a sitting president a Kenyan-born Muslim determined to introduce Sharia law in the US were too terrified of Bernie Sanders to say a word against him.

Explain why Republicans who voted FOR Bernie in open primaries were doing so because they wanted him to LOSE.

Explain why the GOP hammered at HRC 24/7 if they wanted HER to lose to Bernie.

The fact that you see FACTS as an "insult" says all that needs to be said.

[mtnsnake]

36. Like you countered mine? With insults?

The truth is that you're just a little more than upset because I disagreed with you in your post #8. BTW, I have no reason to counter any of your arguments considering all you did to counter my argurment was to say polls don't mean anything, followed by insults further down the thread.

Sticks and stones....

[NanceGreggs]

37. Thank you for acknowledging ...

... that you have no argument to counter the fact that the GOP never laid a glove on Bernie, while insisting they didn't because they were "terrified" of his winning the nomination.

People "terrified" of an enemy DO NOT take the gloves off. But you KNOW that, don't you?

[mtnsnake]

38. Your words, not mine

and there is really no reason to argue with someone who has already let me know that I "have no argument," because to do so would just be arguing for argument's sake, something that you seem to be fond of.

[NanceGreggs]

41. In other words ...

... you have no legitimate argument to offer - except, of course, for the totally non-sensical argument that the GOP didn't say anything against Bernie because they figured that would lead to him losing.

[treestar]

49. Then why did they go after Hillary

so much? Emails, etc. If they wanted her to win instead of Bernie because they could beat her and not Bernie, then why go after her?

[SidDithers]

16. Nailed it...

Sid

[Justice]

45. Reports were that GOP oppo book on Nernie was brutal.

Hillary did not criticize Bernie sonothing negative was said about him or Jane.

[hellofromreddit]

55. That's a lot of false assumptions and poor reasoning

the GOP never said a word against Bernie during the primaries

Never? False. https://politicaladarchive.org/ad/polad_berniesanders_ckd5l/

We now know that the Republicans had oppo research on Bernie - why did they never use it?

Again, not never, but let's just give that one to you and see how it pans out.

With a 17-way primary on their own side it's somehow surprising that they never got around to attacking Sanders? Maybe they were busy. Maybe they were inept. Maybe they saw how it blew up in Clinton's face and decided not to bother. You've provided zero argument to eliminate any possibility; you just let the question hang there as if doing so means something.

We know that Republicans voted FOR Bernie in open primaries - why do you suppose they did that?

Oh, god forbid we have a politician who can reach across party lines to get things done. Besides, that's been happening for years. To believe that this is something related to the presidential race, you'd have to believe the republicans knew years out that Sanders would run.

And again with the dangly question thing.

It was because the GOP wanted Bernie to be the nominee, because they knew he'd be easier to beat in the GE than Hillary.

To quote NanceGreggs: "In light of the actual facts, your theory makes no sense whatsoever." It could just as easily be that they didn't take Sanders seriously and ignored him (much like US media), or that they went with what they knew, and what they knew just happened to be attacking Clinton all day. You haven't narrowed it down even a little.

It also raises a big question without answering it: if the gop can coordinate so well that they can prop up Sanders while they're in the midst of an expensive 17-way primary, why can't the dems coordinate well enough to turn out the damn vote?

I give your conspiracy theory 2 out of 5 foil hats. Because I'm nice.

[NanceGreggs]

59. So your theory is that ...

... the GOP were terrified that Bernie could win the GE, but they didn't attack him because they were "too busy".

It has become a time-honoured tradition in open primary states for Republicans to vote for the Democrat they think is easiest to beat, while Democrats vote for the Republican they think easiest to beat. This is not new. and obviously, it has nothing to do with the GE; it is way that both sides take advantage of being able to vote in each other's primaries. In the GE, they of course vote for their own candidate

Pushing the meme that the GOP was afraid of Bernie because they thought he could beat their candidate is laughable. Had that been the case, they would have been at his throat 24/7 during the primaries in order to weaken his chances of being the nominee. I assure you they would have found the time - just like they've done in every other election.

I've said nothing that even comes close to being a "conspiracy theory". (Perhaps you don't know what that term means?) What I've cited is plain, old fashioned political maneuvering that comes into play every election cycle.

I give your lack of logic five

[hellofromreddit]

61. Weak retort.

the GOP were terrified that Bernie could win the GE

I made no such claim. Off to a poor start already.

This is not new. and obviously, it has nothing to do with the GE; it is way that both sides take advantage of being able to vote in each other's primaries

OK, well, that argument (it's normal behavior) is slightly different from the argument you were pushing before (GOP, or possibly Russia!, plan), but it still doesn't buttress your "the GOP wanted Bernie to be the nominee" conspiracy theory. You just changed it from false to irrelevant.

Hooray, I guess?

Pushing the meme that the GOP was afraid of Bernie because they thought he could beat their candidate is laughable.

Good thing I'm not doing that.

What I've cited is plain, old fashioned political maneuvering that comes into play every election cycle.

And patently false things, like the bit about republicans never attacking Sanders.

I've said nothing that even comes close to being a "conspiracy theory".

Quote: &quot or the Russians)"

I give your lack of logic five

Really? I'm taking away 1/3rd foil hats from your score for unoriginality and another 2/3rds for apparently mixing me up with other posters. You're down to your last foil hat.

[NanceGreggs]

62. You might want to read the OP ...

... just so you know what the discussion is about.

[Madam45for2923]

9. Did they leak anything on Bernie?

[NanceGreggs]

21. No, they didn't

Not a single thing. Not a single negative word. Nothing.

Maybe they were just too terrified of him to speak up.

[Demsrule86]

47. That sends a message right there.

[jack_krass]

10. I remember, and also that those who did so were ridiculed and bullied here in this very forum

[mtnsnake]

12. Well, something that might give your theory just a smidgen of plausibility

is how there were more than a few people who thought that Hillary was the only candidate who could possibly be beaten by Trump.

[SidDithers]

14. ...

Sid

[ucrdem]

15. So maybe Clinton won the Michigan primary?

You might be onto something . . .

[hellofromreddit]

18. There, there ...

We know, we know.

It's the DNC's fault, it's the MSM's fault, it's DWS's fault, it's HRC's fault, it's Bill's fault, it's the debate schedule's fault, it's the debate moderators' fault, it's the Hillary supporters' fault - it's pretty much everybody on the planet's fault - everyone but Bernie, of course.

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1388069

[duffyduff]

19. Nope. n/t

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

23. This ties into what Obama said

About investigating other elections prior to the 11/8/16 one. At the time, I wondered why he would investigate his own elections, but it makes a lot more sense for the primaries to have been rigged also. So there is an outside chance that the electors could choose Bernie?

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

27. lol

http://images.memes.com/meme/992791

[baldguy]

24. If the Dem primaries had been rigged, then Sanders would have won.

Remember, the Russians were trying to keep Clinton out of the Presidency.

[KPN]

40. Not really, they were trying to help Trump win. Trump is financially indebted to

Russia -- makes a nifty puppet, no?

[baldguy]

44. Cinton was attacked by Russia. Trump wasn't attacked by Russia. Sanders wasn't attacked bt Russia.

That's no coincidence.

[brooklynite]

39. Point to ANY evidence that voting was hacked...in either the Primary or the GE

[Coyotl]

42. Remember how many of us told you you're wrong?

And warned that the right wing was trying to disrupt the Democrats.

[Kathy M]

43. Agree with you about republicans wanting disruption

disruption in party leads to division ...... division is not good .

Not sure how or when but the democrats , liberals , progressives are going to have to unite .......

Any voice speaking out against republicans at this point the better .... hopefully there will be more each day ......

[Demsrule86]

46. Bernie was not an obstacle...for whatever reason the GOP wanted him....so no there is no evidence

primaries were rigged. In fact, I think Bernie would have last as well. I doubt he would have won the popular vote after he was destroyed by the evil GOP...but Michigan in particular with thousands of votes that showed no presidential preference in Detroit is very suspicious.

[Fast Walker 52]

50. possible, but much more likely is the Russians planted all those stories about the election being

hacked and writing bogus reports like this one:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6J1ecILnk3UUy1KZ2FUT29iQ1E/view?pref=2&pli=1

[ismnotwasm]

51. Bernie was never a threat. Hillary is, or was, a powerful world player

Bernie was statistically eliminated fairly early on, and at least, by May, by any stretch of a sane imagination. All the angsty bro shit always ignores this fact. Bernie got played by the the Russians and his own team

But I quite honestly hope Bernie steps up his game, as promised. Love to see some sort of real revolution to further social and economic justice like he been talkin about for--quite some some time. I'd hate to see him pull a Cornel West.

[radical noodle]

52. If that was the case

It would have been Bernie who was hacked during the primaries instead of the DNC. There is nothing to point to that. If anything, they were trying to help Bernie.

[apcalc]

53. I do not believe the primaries were rigged. I do however,

believe Russian trolls were on here causing agitation between Clinton and Sanders supporters, and creating false narratives about the frontrunner, so as to suppress votes.

[Madam45for2923]

56. Many here were also using Russian Times articles during the primaries that always hurt HRC...

...never Bernie!

[HassleCat]

54. Tilted, not rigged.

There is a difference. The party establishment follows a process, and the rules are written to discourage upstarts. The primary process is a child of the two major parties, to the extent they don't even have to follow the same process. It's unfair by design, unlike the general election, which we expect to be scrupulously fair, as far as procedure.

[Orsino]

57. Party primaries are definitely rigged...

...in favor of party members, particularly rock-star ones networked over decades. I completely supported Sanders' entry, and voted for his agenda, but I never thought he was more than a long shot. I don't have a problem with that, much.

[otohara]

58. Party Caucuses Are Definitely Rigged

When a state like Colorado has only 127,000 turnout it's rigged against the million registered Dems who couldn't hang out in tiny classrooms for 3 to 4 hours.

Colorado has one of the highest turnouts in elections and more registered Democrats than GOP.

Low low low turnout was never a problem for Sanders & especially his supporters.

[duffyduff]

60. Dream on. n/t

[synergie]

63. Um, the Russians were pushing Bernie. Remember Lee Camp from RT. They're terrified of HRC.

[LexVegas]

64. ...

[uponit7771]

65. NO