Strange Priorities

[BainsBane]

Intelligence agencies have proof that Russians interfered in our elections in order to put Trump in office. Putin is at this moment moving missiles into Eastern Europe. We have a fascist about to enter the White House who ran on plans to create a Muslim registry and since being elected has talked about how internment camps are okay since FDR did them. He's appointed five billionaires to his cabinet, a climate change denier to the EPA and a fast foot mogul who opposes any minimum wage to the head Department of Labor. Trump appeared on television today lying about the source of information about Russian interference in the election by falsely claiming it came from the Democratic party rather than intelligence agencies. We also have the rise of hate crimes and mainstreaming of Neo-Nazis and the Klu Klux Klan.

Yet despite all that, we have people on this site who have decided what really matters is that Hillary Clinton used the word deplorables and earned money giving speeches to Wall Street banks. That sin would appear to be greater than turning the Treasury Department over to a man who made billions from throwing people out of their homes or Trump's plans for enormous tax cuts for the wealthy. The enemy, it seems, is not Russia or Trump but the Democratic Party.

The country is going to hell, but the only thing they care about is making excuses for the Putin-Trump (at least attempted) coup. They insist Russia had no impact on the election, even as they continue to complain that a few DNC emails somehow compelled 3.8 million more voters to choose Clinton in the primary. So why the outrage over the DNC emails but not Russian interference in favor of Trump? The only thing I can figure out is they object to the outcome of the primary but not the general election. If that is the case, why do we have to suffer their lectures about the future direction of the Democratic Party, particularly when they show absolutely no concern about the future of the nation?

[TheBlackAdder]

1. Two years ago, Putin was the devil incarnate to the Republicans. Now, they want to be best buds.

[BainsBane]

2. They are fond of saying Ronald Reagan won the Cold War

Now they are poised to let the Russian empire reconquer Eastern Europe. Their hero is rolling in his grave.

[TheBlackAdder]

3. Now they can say that Trump is promoting the New World Order - Trump/Putin's vision of the NWO!

[Buckeye_Democrat]

7. Probably not, since their conservative propagandists won't frame it that way.

This old poll about belief in various conspiracy theories was interesting:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

Here's the one about belief in the NWO broken down by political party:
Do / Do not / Note sure
Democrats: 15% / 61% / 24%
Republicans: 34% / 35% / 30%
Independents: 35% / 44% / 21%

So nearly two thirds of Republicans believe or they're not sure about the NWO conspiracy.

About the only encouraging aspect of the conspiracy polling is that the overwhelming majority of people in the USA don't believe the weird ideas that conservative propagandists don't regularly promote, likely because they have little bearing on this country's political/economic future. The percentages are about the same for both major political parties regarding Bigfoot, for example.

Well, maybe it's not very encouraging as long as conservatives continue to have such a strong propaganda/disinformation advantage in this country!

[TheBlackAdder]

10. Well, the U.N. and Agenda 21 didn't amount to anything. Trump/Putin is a reality.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

13. Yes, and that reality is what's truly scary/enraging.

The fools among us will continue to have their attention directed toward falsehoods, though.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

14. Those conspiracies were/are promoted to increase distrust in government, as you surely know.

The Republican/Libertarian goal is to convince people that governments are bad and unfettered businesses/corporations are good.

We never hear conspiracies about private companies hiding aliens for nefarious reasons, for example.

The laws of this country are also written to make it far easier for individuals and corporations to sue over such nonsense claims that would hurt their reputations. Government is an easier target.

[TheBlackAdder]

15. As is everything out of Trump's mouth. Challenge the legitimacy of government institutions.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

26. We lost the cold war on Nov 9th

It never ended

[sheshe2]

4. Nailed it as usual, Bains.

To many want to move forward by only looking backwards.

[duffyduff]

5. Wouldn't that be something? Putin revives and even expands the old USSR

while the USA splits up.

That is a distinct possibility.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

6. A lot of people are FED UP with too many people attacking VOTERS

Rather than just accepting the FACT that some decent people were tricked into voting for Trump and focusing on the IMPORTANT issues, like stopping the rat bastard...the majority of people here are too busy calling half of Americans racists and that PISSES PEOPLE OFF. It's just a damn distraction and it needs to STOP.

Stop attacking voters and attack Trump.

[BainsBane]

8. If my post amounts to attacking voters

then so does yours. My post is about those who continue to target the Democratic Party as the enemy rather than focusing on Trump. You don't seem to have understood it at all.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

11. I was not saying that your post was attacking voters...I was saying that...

People on here doing that need to STOP it because:

1. It's not factual
2. It's a distraction
3. It alienates many people
4. It prevents people from uniting AGAINST Trump

Attacking each other serves NO purpose. Too many on this site are doing that instead of focusing on what they should be...stopping Trump.

[BainsBane]

12. I see

I was confused because it didn't seem responsive. I see your point now. I agree in general, but you have to realize that people who have their rights and lives threatened are not going to look favorably on voters who chose to give White Supremacists a pass.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

17. That's fine to do IF that's really what happened, and in many cases it's just not

Intent is always crucial in situations like this. You just can't fault an impoverished family who lost their job and who is desperate for help being tricked into voting for Trump. Those people were not voting with the intent to hurt anyone else...they voted because they are desperate for help and when you are desperate you just do what you feel you MUST do in order to ensure your family has food and a roof over their head. Being homeless and hungry sucks anywhere...but being homeless and hungry in the rust belt in the winter is a life or death matter. You can't ride it out in a tent with 50 degree below zero wind chill.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

19. A person would need something like this if they tried it.

https://www.amazon.com/Military-Modular-Sleep-System-Goretex/dp/B002LLPILC/ref=pd_sim_468_6

Plus some good insulating pad(s).

I have the same bivy cover, but with different sleeping bags that I'll put to the test later when it gets really cold outside.

[BainsBane]

29. Clinton ovewwhelmingly won the poor

Her biggest margin was among voters of incomes below $30k. She also won under $50k. Trump won voters with incomes over $75k. Poverty does not explain Trump's election. Quite the opposite.

[triron]

9. Frustrating isn't it!

I agree with you 100%

[triron]

16. knr

[mcar]

18. K&R

[hellofromreddit]

20. We can deal with discussing Russia AND discussing what the democrats need to change.

It's not like the two things are mutually exclusive. One doesn't diminish the other.

So, if you want to discuss Russia, feel free. But I'm also free to talk about how dumb the campaign was.

[BainsBane]

22. You can discuss whatever you want

But it does reveal priorities.

[betsuni]

21. K&R

[uponit7771]

23. +1

[ck4829]

24. You can literally write a whole book on why this but not that this year

Why did they attack Hillary for giving a speech to Goldman Sachs guys but say nothing when Trump hired them?

Why did they want Hillary to say "Radical Islamic Terrorism" but Trump has yet to say "Alt-Right" and not condemned the attacks on Muslims post-election?

[el_bryanto]

25. I think this forum - the 2016 Postmortem - needs to be shut down

I guess it will be in a few weeks. But you make a pretty compelling case in favor of focusing on Trump.

The problem with it on this forum is that if we are talking about what wrong in 2016, and you have two fairly opposed viewpoints - "we should all have supported Clinton and and then we wouldn't be in this mess" or "we should all have supported Sanders or O'Malley and then we wouldn't be in this mess."

Well, it'll be shut down soon enough.

Bryant

[BainsBane]

30. The only should have is for the GE

as far as I'm concerned. I understand that some people believe the point is to beat everyone over the head for not voting for their choice in the primary, but it's a pointless exercise. The votes from DUers are a fraction of the primary electorate.

And even in the GE, people are of course allowed to vote as they please, but if they don't vote Democrat they aren't Democrats and have no say in the future direction of the party. I really don't care to take lectures from them, especially when they make excuses for Trump and Putin.

[el_bryanto]

31. Yes - many former Clinton supporters and many former Sanders supporters

still want to have that debate. But it doesn't seem to be going anywhere positive.

Bryant

[no_hypocrisy]

27. How did the alliance between Germany and the USSR turn out 75 years ago?

[lostnfound]

28. and handwringing about what a few people on this site are talking about is useful how?

I don't see many of those people here. Most threads are about the awful administration Putin's Pawn is creating.

[Dream Girl]

32. I like how some of them are thing up strategies for 2020

and positioning staetments

[BainsBane]

33. If they really want to control the message

They should run for office themselves.

[Gothmog]

34. Russian interfered in the US election to elect Trump

That should be sufficient to tell you that trump is going to be a bad president