i would like to apologize to the bernie supporters

[okieinpain]

i am not looking to start a fight or put hillary down. but it's been bugging me that as it turns out the bernie supporters were right that hillary's email problem was going to come back to get her and it did.

once again i hope not to open old wounds or start anything, just wanted to say you folks were right. I always like to clear my list before the new year comes.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. You're good in my book, my dear okieinpain!

Thank You for this.

[Eleanors38]

5. On "supporters:" Holding a grudge against populations is the antithesis of effective politics.

We can always find bad actors in any group. But effective political change Requires that a candidate or party appeal to large communities, groups and "supporters;" otherwise, we are looking at boutique politics where horizons are forever limited.

[Maven]

42. Can't disagree with anything you said.

As for holding a grudge, talk to Bernie-or-busters who disrupted the convention and then voted against the eventual Democratic nominee. Some of them even left this website and formed their own when it became clear they'd be weaned off their steady diet of Hillary hatred.

As for appealing to large communities, Hillary's support came from the most diverse cross-section of Democrats, which is why she won the primary, hard as that was for certain grudge-holders to accept.

[hedda_foil]

154. There aree no "Bernie or Busters here, so please stop hat p ing on it. It reads like sour grapes.

In case you don't remember, we all had to sign a pledge to vote for Hillary right after the convention. Those.who would not make the commitment immediately left for JPR. Some of those reconsidered and signed the pledge here before the election.

Please don't let ourselves be driven further apart when it is so necessary that we are united.

[George II]

179. Sorry, but I disagree. One only needs to look around this particular forum and...

....the General Discussion forum, and even the Video & Multimedia forum.

[Gothmog]

157. I was a Clinton delegate to the DNC

I was a delegate to the national convention and many of the sanders delegates believed that Sanders could take the nomination away from Hillary Clinton at the convention. I was in the delegation where a good number of the younger sanders supporters walked in locked in arm to arm to demand that the Clinton delegates condemn Clinton and vote for Sanders. These delegates were somehow told by the Sanders people to go ahead and try this stunt. Again, I heard repeatedly that Sanders did not want to be too hard on his supporters and that we were told to be nice to the Sanders delegates and hope that they came around.

Sanders never truly attempted to reason with or deal with his supporters at the convention because he did not want to lose their support for future races. I know this in part because the Clinton team and whips were monitoring all of the Sanders meetings and reporting back to the Clinton "whipping infrastructure" (a term that I learned in Philadelphia and love). Some of the Sanders supporters were totally out of control during the last two nights of the convention and the sanders campaign would not revoke the credentials of some really foul mouth Sanders delegates on the last night. We were fortunate in that the Sanders supporters used an unlocked/non-password protected list server to plan their stunts and the Clinton whips would warn us in advance when a demonstration was coming.

I saw the consequences of Sanders campaign first hand at the convention. A great deal of effort was used to keep a group of Sanders delegates from disrupting the convention. Sanders evidently thought that a text message was sufficient.

After the convention, I found a number of Sanders supporters who were block walking for local candidates going out of their way to encourage Stein votes. One sanders supporter actually bragged about this practice at a young democrats meeting attended by one of my daughters.

[Justice]

184. Thank you for the factual information - HRC did wonder jump pulling off convention while

grappling with this.

[dionysus]

162. I doubt that the bernie or bust-ers exist in any great numbers

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2016, 01:48 AM - Edit history (1)

[lastone]

17. Really?

"But I wouldn't say his supporters deserve an apology."

This is the exact reason Hillary Clinton lost so many possible voters, the fucking entitlement of that statement uniquely sums up the campaign's outlook after the primary. I'll add just to lob a grenade here that her and her supporters open rejection of Sanders supporters and the "we got this" as in its in the bag no worries attitude is what gave us Donald fucking Trump. Yeah yeah the FBI and Russia were huge factors, perhaps insurmountable, but the Democratic machine fucked up first and the most by not seeing the obvious. Thanks for helping elect this God damn idiot.

[TonyPDX]

27. Well said.

[Maven]

44. Wow, the irony.

I'm entitled for saying that you don't deserve an apology simply because you supported Bernie Sanders?

Check yourself.

[lastone]

59. Check myself, hilarious!

Yes the statement reeks of the same entitlement Hillary's campaign showed, I never said I thought you were entitled - but in one sentence you say Bernie deserves an apology and then throw his supporters out like their worth was nothing. Just like the dnc, dws and the establishment pick of the establishment party (as many viewed her candidacy) running in the mother of all anti establishment election cycles. So check this, if HRC fully embraced the incredible groundswell Sanders created we'd be choosing cabinet members now.

[green917]

71. Exactly!

The hubris is astounding even now after its been proven that we were right.

[LanternWaste]

141. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. The go-to fallacy in place of supporting evidence.

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. The go-to fallacy in place of supporting evidence.

[Maven]

86. Yes, check yourself.

I never said Bernie deserves an apology. I said he deserves credit for deftly putting the email "controversy" in perspective (at least initially) in the debates.

Nor did I throw anyone out or demean anyone's worth. Saying that a group is not deserving of an apology because they pointed out a weakness in their opponent is not demeaning to them. Acting as though an apology is deserved, however, is the definition of entitlement.

[jack_krass]

45. +1

[BobbyDrake]

57. You're arguing that Clinton lost voters because she didn't apologize that Bernie lost?

You seem to have confused "voters" with "children.". No one owed, owes, or will owe Bernie supporters anything at this point.

[lastone]

66. Re-read what I said

I'm, nor are any Sanders supporters I know looking for an apology. I was simply illustrating the fact that the poster I replied to was continuing the holier than thou aditude of the Clinton campaign. Surely that's obvious..

[BobbyDrake]

85. No, it's not "obvious."

Because the "holier than thou" attitude has, does, and will continue to come from Bernie's supporters, not Clinton's. During the primary, they scoffed that anyone besides them could be right about anything. During the convention, they shat on the Democratic event just because Bernie didn't win. And now they're all over the board post-election with ridiculous "Bernie would have won" nonsense that they can only feel, emotionally, but never prove, realistically.

What you wrote:

"But I wouldn't say his supporters deserve an apology."

This is the exact reason Hillary Clinton lost so many possible voters, the fucking entitlement of that statement uniquely sums up the campaign's outlook after the primary.

You're stating that the Clinton "entitlement" of not owing his supporters an apology is what cost her votes, and then you're trying to turn around and claim you're not demanding an apology. Would it be too much to ask for you to make up your mind, maybe?

And Clinton's supporters didn't "reject" Bernie's. There was no "NeverBernie" coalition of the Democratic Primary. Can you say the same about Bernie's side? Nope. His supporters were more than happy to publicly claim how they'd never back her, and to continue fighting the primary even up to Election Day in November. There's a whole site dedicated to them, JackAssRadicals. Maybe you heard of it?

So please, as I have said before to as many Bernie supporters I see running around DU trying to re-write history, stop projecting your issues onto us Clinton supporters. Stop trying to act like your shit doesn't stink.

[LanternWaste]

142. I realize bias such as yours forces us to hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves

No more and no less than the politically purer-than-thou attitude you and others are still (and obvilous,ly) pushing as well.

However, I realize bias such as yours forces us to hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to.

[brush]

101. As if Sanders wouldn't have been skewered mercilessly. Hillary stayed completely away from . . .

what the repugs and complicit media would have thrown at him.

Bob-ers fail to acknowledge how gracious Clinton was in not "going there" and dividing the party further. They sure went after her though with the "corporate whore, corrupt, untrustworthy" stuff.

The repug oppo file on him was said to be two feet thick — and not with just the socialism stuff.

[GeoWilliam750]

126. Quick questions

What is the source for the "two feet thick" of opposition research? Is it directly from the unfailingly truthful Trump team?

How does this compare to how much they had on Hillary? I would have thought that two feet is a very small amount even for one researcher. I accumulate more than that in a week doing obscure research on small local history items.

Are you saying that they knew all kinds of things about Bernie Sanders that the HRC team did not, and that these would have been badly damaging?

Any idea what these badly damaging points might have been?

[brush]

135. I'll say this

The Clinton team knew, just as many or us learned during the campaign about, say, the letter talking about rape.

Again, he would have been no way free of baggage and therefore able to skate to victory as some have been implying since Nov. 9th.

[Amaril]

151. And how many times does it have to be repeated........

.......that the so called "letter about rape" was an essay he wrote for an underground publication in 1972, the intent of which was to skewer traditional, internalized, gender-based sexual stereotypes held by women AND men. Have you even bothered to read the piece, or are you just parroting what you have heard about it? His intent was actually crystal clear unless one is reading it with a biased eye intent on finding fault in his current character based on something he wrote FORTY-FOUR years ago as a satirical exercise.

[brush]

153. Of course I read it. After seeing what the repugs did with the non-issue of emails . . .

and Benghazi you think they wouldn't blow that up to make Sanders seem like the biggest _ _ _ _ _ _ (plug in whatever word or words here you want) going.

It wouldn't have been pretty.

Bernie was not baggage-free by any means.

[Exilednight]

161. Let's be honest here. The issue isn't the actual things that Republicans say, it's how a candidate

handles it.

If this had been Obama or Bill that had to deal with these email issues, we wouldn't have lost.

Obama overcame racist bullshit that was thrown at him. No one in this election came flat out and said that Hillary was a secret Muslim terrorist sympathizer looking to impose Sharia Law upon our lands.

[brush]

163. We're talking about Sanders' baggage not Obama or Bill

[Exilednight]

164. And exactly what baggage would that be?

If there is baggage, then link it up.

Other than some letter that was taken completely out of context and could easily be turned around on Republicans, what else was there?

[GeoWilliam750]

168. You seem very well informed regarding

Senator Sanders' truly incredible and electorally fatal amount of baggage, of which Senator Sanders' supporters seem blissfully and doggedly unaware. We know he was a democratic socialist, and we know he wrote an odd letter 40-50 years ago. In order to put all of this to rest, as one well informed about this baggage, please help Sanders' supporters see the light by giving a list of the top five, ten, or twenty things that the GOP were going to crush him with, but Secretary Clinton chose not to use in the primaries.

[George II]

173. You forgot to add this:

[GeoWilliam750]

176. No. I am not in the least bit sarcastic

Most of the best decisions of my life have been when I coldly and objectively reviewed the facts and logic yet another time, and changed my mind. In my youth, I dug in and refused to consider points of view that differed from mine - at a tremendous cost. Now, I (mostly) welcome them, because I learn so much more from the people who disagree with me than the people who agree with me. Whilst an echo chamber can be a very reassuring place, it does not lead to a more rigorous and informed thought process.

Thus, I very much do want to know what is perceived as horrible about Senator Sanders, and I am not being in the least sarcastic.

As a species we are hard wired to not admit being in error because to do so is to accept an effectively lower position in the social hierarchy, which is the same as to accept an inferior position or the extractor/extractee scale. Thus, virtually nobody will admit a mistake or a failure, why few people will admit to changing their mind, and why being perceived as the winner in an argument is far more important than actually being right.

[George II]

180. Well you won't get "what is perceived as horrible" from me. There are just too many.....

....going from OP to OP looking for posts that in their eyes is not "supporting Democrats" by being critical.

Just do a little research about Sanders' career over the last 50 years and make your own assessment.

[brush]

174. Come on. You have to know some of this stuff

The Castro/Cuba stuff, the Sandanista stuff, the socialism stuff, the rape letter, the . . .

environmental racism stuff, the income taxes, the stolen electricity, and on and on.

He was hardly baggage-free and Clinton stayed completely away from it,

The repugs would have had a field day with it in the general.

[GeoWilliam750]

175. This is all well known, and hardly "brutal"

Cuba/Castro. Did not our President - probably the best Democrat candidate since at least Johnson - just mostly normalise relations with Cuba?

"Socialist" is such a frightening word to some people, it seems.

If the things mentioned in the article are what qualifies as "brutal", the Republicans are certainly slipping (which is probably true, too). .......and four more videos that Eichenwald was not shown.... The horror.

Also, Eichenwald seems to be more on the liberal end of the spectrum - at least something other than a rank corporate shill. It seems puzzling that he was let in on the opposition research. He also states that he had a "deeply unreliable memory for names, facts and events" which he compensated for by his "meticulous reporting methods" (from Wikipedia). Thus, the GOP not only gave him access to its files, but also let him take extensive notes. Hmmmm...... Why on earth would they do that?

And so on?

[brush]

185. So you were playing dumb before? You knew this baggage existed all along.

Now you're coming off as naive. The repugs have been using every dirty trick in the book to win elections.

You think they would stop because it was Bernie Sanders?

Puh-leeze!

[LovingA2andMI]

35. "But I wouldn't say his supporters deserve an apology."

Way To Loop All Of Bernie's Supporters Into One Box, Even After Many of US Voted For Hillary -- Because BERNIE Asked US Too.

[Maven]

48. Nope, I don't put you into any box at all.

If you voted for Hillary, thank you for doing your part to stop this madness.

However, that doesn't mean you deserve an apology for pointing out a weakness in the opposing candidate during the primaries, a weakness that many of your fellow supporters exploited to their advantage. Claiming an apology is due is the textbook definition of chutzpah.

[green917]

72. Nobody has claimed we deserve an apology

Except the original poster (who is doing the apologizing)!

[Maven]

87. Great. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

84. 'Many', 'some', 'not all', sure is nice not to have to back that smear up with facts or real numbers

[Maven]

88. Stating that a candidate's supporters exploited a perceived weakness of his opponent

is not a smear. Neither is stating that an apology for the fact that the perceived weakness they helped exploit, did, in fact, become a weakness, is also not a smear.

[AtheistCrusader]

90. For what it's worth, I never expected an apology.

But I also supported Hillary when the primary was over.

But I take issue with how you framed that. It feels like another 'blame the berniebros' kick in the shins from people who, frankly, were on the SAME TEAM.


SAME TEAM. Come on.

[Maven]

91. OK. Sorry if my framing was divisive.

That wasn't the intention. I guess I do bristle when people crow about Hillary's "flaws" as though the fake scandal-mongering was justified.

But in light of your post, I will delete my original reply. I invite the OP to do the same, as his/her post is also an (I'm sure unintentional) affront to those who supported HRC in the primary.

[Eleanors38]

3. The important thing now is to look toward overhaul of the Party. And soon.

[okieinpain]

18. +1 n/t.

[George II]

106. The Party doesn't need an overhaul.

[hellofromreddit]

109. Losing a ton of ground each cycle makes it look like the party needs an overhaul.

If not, then what's going on and how do we fix it?

[George II]

112. What "ton of ground" did we lose this cycle? We gained seats in both Houses AND....

....without outside interference we probably would have (most likely did) retained the presidency.

[hellofromreddit]

114. We've been losing ground since 2008's peak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states has some handy tables. If you look at the trends, not only did we lose big in 2010, but we've become more marginalized since, which is backwards from the normal trend of the majority party slowly losing power the longer it's in.

Gonna blame all that on Russia too?

[BlueProgressive]

129. Yeah, because we win everywhere & every time we run a candidate...

right?

[KPN]

137. But it needs some serious adjustment in leadership, messaging,

strategy/tactics, and thinking especially on economic issues. To think otherwise is delusional. The party has been in serious decline for 6 years running.

[Eleanors38]

147. Without Major changes, the Party will become a 3rd party in a two-party system.

[closeupready]

4. Thanks.

While I think this apology will be a singular one here on this board, it's the right way to move on and face the future. K&R

[Eleanors38]

6. This

[NRaleighLiberal]

7. Very nice of you. The quicker the past is left to be the past and we move forward all

together, the more effective we can be.

[RKP5637]

8. I never had a grudge against anyone, I just wanted to see a democrat in the WH. I liked

Hillary and Bernie. I just thought Hillary likely had too much baggage with the email stuff that could be used against her. Either one would have made a fine president in my book.

[immoderate]

63. I think people ignore that Hillary had considerable baggage on the left.

I meet with a group that are all lefties, and more than half didn't vote for Hillary (none for Trump. ) They questioned Hillary's policies on trade, environment, banks, minimum wage, prisons, education, and military, to name a few. And they had reason to question her.

Yes, I warned them of the alternative. But some sophisticated people can present a case that the whole system doesn't work for us, even with left wing governments. Hillary was a wide load, on a road that was narrow on both sides.

--imm

[TheFrenchRazor]

78. and a lot of it was carried by the same credulous people who thought obama was some pure, far-left,

super-progressive, when of course he never was. some people just believe what they want to.

[Scruffy1]

139. I know a lot of lefties who didn't vote for her.

The old assumption that "independents" are in the center is pure BS. At least where I live we have a vast assortment of lefties and very few cons. Some refused to vote, others for Stein.

[Generic Other]

177. I knew a few lefties who felt this way

Not a single argument I could make to sway them. I just decided to focus on defeating Trump. It was too important to me not to give in without a fight. I chose Clinton AFTER the primary because she was the best hope.

[leftofcool]

9. Yea, with a little help from the left, the FBI and the GOP

I would like to thank all of you for helping to get Dump elected.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. +1

[closeupready]

12. Really?

Hmm.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. yeah really. nt

[Buzz Clik]

75. Megadittos.

[kcr]

121. I'll add another really n/t

[cwydro]

61. + 2

Yup

[FailureToCommunicate]

16. Blaming "the left"

Got anything to back that up?

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. My sentiments exactly. As for the rest of my sentiments, I'll keep 'em to myself as they might....

get me hidden or banned.

[TonyPDX]

29. The "left"? So where does that put you?

[SunSeeker]

37. +1

[el_bryanto]

46. Why would you thank me for that? Seems like it'd be better if Hillary Clinton had won

I mean you could thank me for supporting the candidate I thought was the best (in my case Bernie Sanders in the primary and Hillary Clinton in the General Election).

Bryant

[green917]

81. My response precisely

The blanket dismissal of all of those of us that supported bernie in the primaries as, somehow, costing secretary clinton the white house (when most of us voted for her) is ridiculous, patently arrogant, and continues the sentiment that we aren't needed or wanted here because we haven't been 100% their girl from the beginning.

[Buzz Clik]

74. +1

[elmac]

11. I can't accept an apology

because, as a very vocal Bernie for president supporter, I was just as supportive & protective of HC as soon as she became our candidate. Was she perfect, nope, did she have baggage, yep, but she was our candidate and I would & do still support her today. I don't deserve an apology nor do I want one. Who could have known, other then Thump, the FBI,the CIA, Putin, some in congress and the White House, that she had such a coordinated attack against her. We and Her were left in the Dark. Who knows what kind of shit storm the fascists had ready for Bernie if he won the Primary. Our system is completely broke, not our candidates.

[LisaM]

22. These weren't actually her emails anyway. That was a different fake issue.

These were DNC emails, and Podesta'a emails, which had absolutely nothing to do with national security.

I also love the blame the victim game going on here. When did we become like "them"?

[BobbyDrake]

32. When you began treating other Democrats the same exact way?

"Neoliberal corporate shill!" didn't invent itself, or magically hurl itself at Clinton supporters during the primary. Berniecrats did that.

[LisaM]

41. I'm so tired of it all.

I will forever be proud of supporting Hillary Clinton. Every day she's not planning a Cabinet is a lost opportunity. The Republicans want us to change what really was a winning message, because they only won because of interference, suppression, stoking hate, and shenanigans.

[riversedge]

156. Well said.

[radical noodle]

24. Indeed

and it also lays bare the harsh fact that with a concentrated effort the best, most qualified candidate can be torn down by an opposing party who is willing to do anything, no matter how nefarious, to take him/her down.

[pnwmom]

25. Thank you, elmac. and well said. n/t

[Maven]

50. Thank you.

Sincerely.

[George II]

113. Excellent points, and for that a well deserved Thank You (not apology).

[mountain grammy]

14. Thank you and K&R

[Rex]

15. No worries, some will crybaby at your opinion.

They live in an echo chamber. I thought the email issue was a dead issue myself, just look at all the 'experts' that got it totally wrong. I was wrong. How did our entire party get it wrong?

[okieinpain]

19. no kidding. n/t.

[pnwmom]

23. I knew it would be an issue. It's all they had. But I didn't delude myself into thinking

that Bernie would have just skated by with his media coverage -- as opposed to Hillary with her emails.

Kurt Eichenwald reported on a 2 foot thick file of opposition research the RNC had ready to go against Bernie.

[Rex]

26. Even Bernie dismissed the email issue as not central to winning.

As for BS - they would have hammered the world 'socialism' into a fearful base, I know how that one would have worked out. Just amazing we all got the email issue wrong on the magnitude it played in the election.

Can't make that mistake again in 2020.

[pnwmom]

33. It isn't amazing. Comey's letter bombs made the critical difference.

Hillary sustained a large drop in her polling numbers that she never recovered from.

There was no way we could have predicted that Comey would defy Department of Justice policy and decades of historical precedent and put his thumb on the scale in the last days of the campaign.

[Rex]

38. Sad that we live in a country where our elections are decided

by a tiny group of people and not the actual voting constituency.

[SunSeeker]

40. Exactly. And over NOTHING.

The fucker had NOTHING.

[LisaL]

100. FBI had the emails since at least early October. They could have checked them all

but they didn't even ask for a search warrant until after Comey wrote his first letter.. The best October surprise is the one delivered within 2 weeks before an election.
We can add two and two together, can't we not?

[SunSeeker]

123. He must have known he had nothing before he issued the letter.

That is why he sat on it for so long and then feigned not knowing what was in the emails so he could send out that cryptic letter at just the right moment.

[GeoWilliam750]

170. What was in this "two feet of oppo research"?

By myself, I can put together two feet of research on obscure local history in a week. If this is all they had with an unlimited budget and hundreds of professional researchers with months to work, we had an unbeatable candidate in Senator Sanders.

Secretary Clinton's Benghazi file alone would have filled many shelves (and yes, I agree, spurious controversy).

[pnwmom]

171. Some examples from Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/democrats-swallowed-these-two-giant-myths-and-it-cost-them-the-election/

So, what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: Losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is a-ok. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact that Bernie was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words, “Environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 Crime Bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed) and the opposition research folder was almost two-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

[pnwmom]

21. It bugs me that people like you don't realize that Bernie would have had

his own set of issues for them to attack. Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek said he had seen a 2 foot thick file of opposition research and the Rethugs were set to go.

We knew that Hillary had emails and that that was a nothing story that the Rethugs had spent YEARS pushing. The media chose to highlight it in the campaign simply as a way to show they were being "fair" -- and they had nothing else to criticize Hillary for.

If Bernie had been running, the media would have been more than happy to prove they were being "fair" by painting Bernie as equivalent to DT.

[TonyPDX]

34. If a "2 foot thick file of opposition research" on Bernie existed, Hillary and DWS would

have used it. I'm sick of hearing those who were so wrong demand that Bernie would have fared worse.

[pnwmom]

49. Not true. Just as Bernie chose not to use the emails against Hillary,

she wouldn't have attacked him with everything possible. Neither of them wanted to harm the eventual winner who would have to fight the Rethug in the general -- or to alienate the supporters of the other. So they each used only whatever firepower was necessary.

Kurt Eichenwald did some of the greatest investigative reporting during this election. It's not a question of whether the research existed. It did. And no one who had carefully looked into Bernie's history during the primaries would have doubted that.

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

[NCTraveler]

60. Clinton and DWS used only what was needed.

Which wasn't all that much. They saw a good section of the party was backing Sanders and they would need those votes down the road. I do agree with your underlying thought. They really didn't go after him. They used very little. She was even running general election ads before the primaries were over.

[bettyellen]

64. They stopped running against Sanders in April but Sanders attacked Dems till the convention.

His tax plan was enough to sink him, as well as all the other stuff including video she never used.
Sadly Sanders was used by the media and would have been chewed up and spit out the moment he was truly competitive.

[Paka]

94. +1

[pnwmom]

120. There is no "if" about it. The RNC was armed and ready.

This was by Kurt Eichenwald, one of the handful of investigative reporters who put out solid stories during the entire election year.

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

[uponit7771]

96. Not all people have to burn the Earth to win

[George II]

119. Sanders had LOTS more "baggage" than Clinton, except we just weren't allowed....

....to talk about it here during the spring and summer.

On top of that, he didn't have 30 years of experience overcoming the crap that would have been thrown at him, like Clinton did.

Amazing, we keep seeing around here these days is "Clinton supporters, get over it" and yet have to put up with "Sanders would have won" bluster.

People have to face reality, Sanders would NOT have won!

[GeoWilliam750]

172. It would be so tremendously nice to finally put all of this to rest

And to persuade the Sanders supporters of the terrible error of their ways.

Please elucidate the top five, ten, or twenty, or thirty of the horrific things in the GOP file so that we can properly show that the Sanders candidacy was fatally flawed from the start. Unless of course, you are suggesting that Clinton supporters would have stayed home in droves, refused to vote for Sanders, or voted for Trump, and thrown the election to Trump.

Two feet of opposition research is nothing at all, and rather than being damning, suggests that Senator Sanders was a very strong candidate indeed.

[Justice]

183. Trump's oppo research on Sanders was said to be "brutal"

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

There are examples in here. I have no interest in posting them here, but I am sooooo tired of this mantra, that I had to respond.

[StevieM]

150. We can only imagine what they had in store for Martin O'Malley.

You can be sure that it would have been enormous. It would have been a pack of lies, but they would have sold it to a lot of people. It might have even included abuses of power from James Comey and the FBI.

[pnwmom]

155. They took a war hero's service -- John Kerry's -- and twisted it around

till he was a coward they could mock with bandaids on their foreheads.

Yes -- if they don't have something real to attack you with, they'll make up lies. This is nothing new.

[StevieM]

158. Excellent point...and here is another good one: What if Wes Clark had been the nominee in 2004?

Is there any doubt that we would have heard about all sorts of evil things that he did in uniform? That there would have been some version of the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth?

If Clark really did these horrible, hypothetical things then they should have been exposed, whether he was the nominee or not. They weren't, which means that he did nothing wrong. And yet we know--absolutely know--that they would have made up some sort of diabolical scandal, and many people would have believed it.

[LakeArenal]

28. Move on everyone... It's important what is now not then...

I will say, although I realize she is broken hearted, Hillary has been dead silent. I want some leadership from her now. Get out there. Talk to us. I feel left hangin'..

[green917]

83. As you should

She hasn't shown much in the way of leadership since the convention...she disappeared (with the exception of several $10,000+ a plate fundraisers) for weeks and now, after losing, she has been completely non- existent.

[INdemo]

30. The email problem was not necessarily why Hillary was defeated..

Republicans,(Reince Priebus,Karl Rove) planned several tactics as to how Hillary Clinton would be defeated one way or another.
Immediately after the 2012 elections Voter suppression began in states with Republican governors and state house control.
The propaganda began about the Clinton foundation, Benghazi, and they pounded the trust issue.

Reince Priebus is probably the dirtiest, the most low level scum to ever manage the Republican Party.
I believe it was Karl Rove and Reince Priebus were the master minds behind the greatest election in history.
Lee Atwater who was George H W's manager was the lowest of lows .Reince Priebus plan was where one issue didn't work against Hillary there was a back up.
Then we have the votes. The actual theft through the voter suppression by not allowing qualified voters to vote because of some Republican newly passed voting rule or law that was never tested in the courts.

2016 and 2000 were very similar because Republicans decided they were going to win by whatever means it took,after being out of the White House for eight years.
I think this election swindle was in the final planning stages even before the Republican's knew who their candidate would be.

Remember Bernie Sanders said in a debate.."enough about the emails,we need to talk about the issues"

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. What utter nonsense. Bernie "supporters" helped push the meme that everything & everyone....

including the DNC, DCCC, super delegates, Goldman Sachs were all corrupt & thwarting his rise to power. Could it be that the 3 million more primary voters who voted for Hillary, despite the email "scandal", thought she was a much better fit to lead the Democratic party? The notion that BS would have sailed to the nomination had it not been for all the above, is just ridiculous on it's face. What's even more ridiculous is the notion that the GOP wouldn't have pulled similar dirty tricks on BS in the GE.

Hillary had to fight "fake news", the Kremlin, a disinterested media & the FBI. Do you imagine that Sanders would have gotten a fraction of the free news coverage that DT got? Save your apologies for something that actually matters.

[asuhornets]

39. I agree..Hillary had more votes in the Democratic primary and the Presidential election...nt

[BobbyDrake]

51. And now it's like they want to be thanked and praised for their knife in our backs.

It's such ignorant bullshit to have to deal with on top of Trump's win.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. yup.

[uponit7771]

97. True, I though I found something false about the OP... they were scorched Earth post April

[Dopers_Greed]

36. I was a Sanders supporter

But I'm not going to pretend like he didn't help Herr Dumpf win.

[pnwmom]

52. Thank you. I don't think he deliberately did that, but he did

pretest some of DT's winning themes, and soften up the electorate for him.

[otohara]

62. Word n/t

[AlexSFCA]

43. should have would have

The unfortunate thing is that Hillary did not choose Sanders as her running mate.

In restrospect, I can see now that Bernie could have been a better nominee. Becauese, even if we still lost to Trump, Bernie supporters would be furious and really fight for what's right so by next election we would have a strong coalition. That young energy was wasted instead and may not be coming back again considering where Democratic Party is moving (Pelosi again).

However, it was Bernie who initiated a populist wave which trump eventuslly rode on. And it was his supporters who pushed the emails narrative hard which eventually snowballed and stopped her momentum. Overall, Hillary did much more for our country and the world throughout her career.

[McKim]

79. This Broke My Heart

It broke my heart that she did not choose Bernie as VP. I voted for her anyway.

[LisaL]

99. She had to choose someone she would actually be able to work with.

And I think Kaine did help to win Virginia. Unfortunately it wasn't enough.

[AlexSFCA]

103. hmm

can't imagine she would have lost VA with Sanders and would have definately won WI, MI and PA and very likely NC.

This election was not about her but about our country. After all, she and Sanders agree on over 90% of issues so I'm sure they'd manage to work together just fine. She threw Bernie supporters under the bus and made him cave in which will undoubtedly make it more difficult for him to reenergize his base.

[denvine]

47. Thank you!

Many will see this as an attack on their preferred candidate. Hillary was fighting an uphill battle from the very beginning. She started out with a 56% disapproval rating and an ongoing investigation. That's a tough obstacle to get over. This was common knowledge but not even heard in the echo chamber. I would hope your post would help heal some of the divide but it seems as though some are digging their heels in even further. Thanks for trying!

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

53. Bernie supporters said everything

You can't just cherrypick the things they got right

[JCanete]

125. That is true. I also don't think it was just Bernie supporters saying this, and as one, I never

thought this wasn't in the bag for Clinton.

[montana_hazeleyes]

54. OH PLEASE!

Give me a break. Bullshit. I like Bernie and have never put him down. Ever. but sorry this is rubbish in my opinion.

Not aimed at you really okieinpain~ but there is so much more to this!

[Arazi]

55. You're a class act okie

[PoliticAverse]

56. Best wishes to you. n/t

[Equinox Moon]

58. Nice post

Last edited Wed Dec 14, 2016, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)

It is a damn shame Hillary had issues, to be blown out of proportion, in the first place. I am a big Bernie supporter, yet never got into the 'attacking of Hillary' thing, for any reason. I could disagree on politics, but that is different. Any way, the opposition is what made her issues into GIANT creatures, it was awful!

Everyone wanted to take her down. Well, they did. Now look at the f**king mess we are in.

You have my compassion Okie', I am assuming you are from Oklahoma. Your state is a fracking nightmare. Hope you are not near it.

[okieinpain]

70. yes in oklahoma and yes it's a nightmare. n/t.

[okieinpain]

69. sorry, but i had to give credit were it was

due.

[NCTraveler]

108. This posts makes me think...

Your op was simply pointing out that they were carrying the message. I was scratching my head at the irony in you op but now get it.

[ehrnst]

68. It was the FBI's anti-Hillary people that actually made the problem what it was, not Hillary.

And those confederate flags and swastikas were not about emails.

[Buzz Clik]

73. blah! Sanders was a one-dimensional candidate who stood no chance in the general.

I am waiting for an apology from those Sanders supporters who spent roughly one year abusing everyone who stood in their path and turning DU into a cesspool.

Well?

[TheFrenchRazor]

76. so what do you think the ruskies had on bernie? cuz you know they had something.. nt

[JCanete]

77. As a Bernie supporter, I don't think the emails were the issue. Clinton has a long past. It's more

about what the media wants to seize on than anything. Shit would have been "discovered" and the media would have spent 2 weeks on it prior to election day, for the purpose of undoing the huge lead they(and really Trump himself) just gave her around debate time.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

98. Clinton hate is generational on the Right....

There were whole families that voted against Hillary and then went out for ice cream.

[JCanete]

124. totally true...generated in no small part by 30 years of this same shitty media. nt

[HassleCat]

80. I never thought it would be a big deal

Sure, I would have preferred Bernie, but I didn't think the email issue would be a big factor. And it would have faded if James Comey had not stepped in and tried to influence the election.

[LisaL]

93. Exactly. Emails were over and done with until Comey wrote his letters.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

82. Bernie refused to let it be about personalities.

[LisaL]

89. Give it a freaking rest. Bernie had a big file on him too.

[JudyM]

115. ... and the moon is made of green cheese...

[etherealtruth]

92. The Russians, FBI and proliferation of "fake news'

No one was right about the that

[Demsrule86]

95. Oh please...don't get me started...

and the divisive primary...Bernie's refusal to concede or endorse...his keeping on long after the point he could win... and I personally think it was stolen...and I also think Bernie would have lost big...apologize.

[still_one]

102. How about those self-identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary, or the media

Whose falsehoods and lies about Hilllary, including 11days before the election when they lied about the Comey letter to the republicans in congress by saying the email investigation had been reopened, and then proceeded to parade every right wing politician across their screen propagating the lie, and fox's Bret baier telling us that an indictment was pending against the Clinton foundation, another lie, but one in which the usual outlets were too willing to push.

How about those folks during the primary here that were outraged when Hillary was referred to by the "c" word, and every other vulgar slur because those used those slurs had their posting privileges revoked. Those Hillary and President Obama haters now frequent JPR, one of the most detestable garbage sites around

Do you want to apologize to them also?

[NanceGreggs]

104. As it turns out ...

... Hillary's "email problem" didn't prevent her from winning the majority of votes. In fact, despite what we are now learning about Russian interference, the impact of Comey insinuating that Hillary was yet again the subject of "investigation", et cetera, the majority of voters still backed HRC by a wide margin.

The Bernie supporters who redirected their support to Hillary recognized the importance of doing so, for the sake of the Party and the sake of the country. They're not looking for any apology.

Those who persisted in denigrating HRC and the Dem Party - along with demeaning anyone and everyone who didn't endorse Bernie (Liz Warren, John Lewis, Al Franken et al) don't deserve ANY apology whatsoever.

The only thing SOME Bernie supporters were "right" about is that they wanted Hillary to lose, and being "right" about that was more important than any other consideration.

[mcar]

105. They voted their "conscience," Nance

Didn't we hear that again and again here? Why, then, do they need an apology? They never would have voted for the Democratic nominee, unless it was Bernie.

[ucrdem]

110. Yep. 50 shades of told ya so. nt

[hellofromreddit]

111. Apologies are not about the recipients. okieinpain is mending wounds that need mending.

No matter who's fault anything is.

[NanceGreggs]

116. Mending wounds by saying ...

... those who were dying to to say "I told you so" were right all along?

Yeah, as if.

[KPN]

138. Still ignoring the fact that this election should have been

a slam dunk landslide for the Democrats. Hillary did not inspire enough Independents or millennials to manifest that result. Were she able to do that, the emails and Russian influence would have been meaningless.

Blaming the people who did not vote for Hillary is no different than trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

[DanTex]

149. Yes, it should have been. Probably would have if not for Bernie's divisive anti-Dem campaign.

[KPN]

167. NOT! Do you really believe the GOP wasn't going to raise the same

friggin issues? Sour grapes.

Here's a thought for your consideration. How about focusing on how to expand the tent instead of laying blame? How do you do that? Simple: be open to others views and maybe even change. The D Party is never going to recover so long as you blame Bernie and his supporters. The only thing achieved by doing so is alienation of millennials and Independents who happened to find Bernie's frank honesty refreshing. Those are the people who would have ensured a landslide had they been welcomed rather than ridiculed during the primary.

[GeoWilliam750]

169. Personally

I wonder whether this whole thread is simply flame bait to further divide and disrupt the Democrats. Most of these post mortem threads seem to be such.

Then, the new Senate leader is perhaps the least representative of the party base that we could possibly choose. We lost the most winnable election in history, rigged or otherwise, and the party leadership simply says, "More of the same", "We've got this".

[KPN]

181. I hear you. Who can we trust anymore?

[GeoWilliam750]

182. Divide and conquer

Once none of can trust anyone else, we are all weak and vulnerable.

A house - or party - divided against itself, cannot stand.

The question becomes, how can any or all of us make this better?

Blaming each other is not the way.

A bad worker blames their tools.

A bad manager blames their staff.

A bad leader blames their people - or someone else.

Now the fight is on for the soul of the party - and so far the billionaires are winning.

[NCTraveler]

107. The irony in this is astounding. Nt

[Ken Burch]

117. Stand up thing to do.

A lot of things were said on both sides that probably should not have been. That's what happens in a hotly contested race.

[baldguy]

118. There was no "hillary's email problem". It was an attack by Russia upon the United States.

Sanders benefited from it almost as much as Trump did.

[betsuni]

122. Many thought the email would get her because she's corrupt, evidence would be found.

That was wrong. Nobody could've predicted Anthony's Weiner rising out of the blue and Comey's letter. Hillary Clinton is not crooked and anyone who insisted/insists she was or is, or that her email set-up was a horrible thing making her uniquely guilty of bad judgement forever and ever, is wrong.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

127. Your apology is accepted. Yes, we were right - and ridiculed for it - but, I take no pleasure in that. Fuhrer-Elect tRump is a nightmare from which we may never wake up.

[ReRe]

128. I and my family (4 adults) were ardent Bernie supporters....

.... but we all marched to the polls and every one of us voted for Hillary.
Guess we aren't what one would call "busters."

[Orsino]

130. A nearly fictitious problem.

Having been right about the MSM's willingness to keep chanting "e-mail" ought to give no one satisfaction.

[Paladin]

131. Fuck that shit.

"Hillary's email problem" my ass. As if Russian intervention, questionable vote tallying, a rogue FBI director, a deliberately dumbed-down electorate, and the divisive impact of Bernie Sanders' campaign count for nothing.

Fuck that shit.

[Joe941]

132. Thank you - much appreciated. Now Bernie for 2020!

[BainsBane]

133. I don't apologize for exercising my voting rights as I see fit

I don't care how much certain "progressives" or Republicans hated Clinton. I make my decisions as an individual voter based on who I think is best qualified to be president. I will never apologize for exercising my constitutional right.

The other candidate has loads of baggage. It just never came out during the primary. It's entirely possible he would have lost far more decisively than Clinton even if he had somehow managed to win the nomination. But the fact is he wasn't successful in convincing the 3.8 million more Democrats who voted for Clinton that he deserved their votes. The idea that supporters of a candidate who couldn't win a majority of Democratic votes deserves an apology because he lost is ridiculous.

[BlueWI]

186. As it was, Clinton mainly won in the slam dunk Dem states.

Sanders wouldn't have lost CA, NY, IL, CO, NM, MA, MN (which Clinton barely won herself), CT, VT, all the obvious Dem wins. Did Clinton win a single 50/50 state? Maybe if you count VA, where her running mate was from, or NV.

Sanders certainly wouldn't have done worse. He was a better campaigner and more appealing to independent and youth voters. But he lost in the primary. And Clinton lost in the general, with help from Repug sympathizers, but she was the standard bearer and didn't get elected. So here we are. It's foolish to make excuses in the wake of getting our clocks cleaned by a semi-literate snake oil salesman.

[BainsBane]

187. You forget one key group Sanders did not appeal to

Democrats, specifically the Democratic base--single women and people of color. I get you want to discount our votes and value Republican voters more highly, but no Democrat wins elected office without our votes. Why you think those voters would have automatically been delivered to him, I can't begin to imagine. How do you suppose he would have won Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan or Pennsylvania without the votes of African Americans? Democrats win because of the cities, and as much as Sanders and his supporters privilege the white male voters in the rural counties, their numbers are not sufficient to carry those states for Democrats.

Sanders alienated the Democratic base during the primary. He made a point of systematically insulting us by boasting that his voters were "real people" instead of "registered Democrats," He insulted organizations and people that put their lives on the line for reproductive rights as "establishment." He dismissed the votes of predominantly African American states as the "confederacy." He also insisted--mid contest-- that Southern states shouldn't go relatively early in the process because they "distorted reality." That 'reality" he wanted prioritized above states placed earlier because of their diversity were the predominantly white caucus states with low voter turnout. And then after he had been mathematically excluded from any possibility of winning (2 months after it was clear to even his own campaign staff that he had already lost) he insisted that the nearly 16 million votes of actual citizens should be overturned in favor of corporate media polls. Yet after all that, you assume those voters would have turned out in droves for him?

Sanders lost by 3.8 million votes. It wasn't even close. He lost on March 15 but stayed in the race for three more months because he raised enormous amounts of money, not because he actually had a chance to win. Even his own campaign staff knew that wasn't possible after March 15.

My constitutional rights are not an excuse. They are my right. I vote for the most qualified candidate, and I will not vote for someone i see as unprepared to assume the presidency because some people insist my voting rights are an "excuse."

The excuses being made here are by people who insist Sanders was somehow owed the nomination, despite not being able to get anywhere close to a majority of voters to vote for him. This continual insistence that he would have won is nothing but a demonstration of entitlement.

I suggest it is you and those like you who need to quit making excuses for a candidate who lost the primary by 3.8 million votes. I suggest you stop referring to the voting rights of citizens as "excuses" and figure out how to get a majority of voters to the polls for your preferred candidate in the future. I can tell you the approach taken in the primary and still being demonstrated now is a sure fire way to ensure that never happens.

[BlueWI]

188. BTW, I am a Black man. Maybe Sanders did make me white!!

Check your assumptions, and vote how you want.

Obviously, voter suppression, including purposefully faulty machines in Dem and POC strongholds across the country, are real. But hey, it didn't really matter until it affected Clinton directly, right?? Remember the Arizona primary and the obvious problems?? Sanders' camp raises the issue, Clinton nation says it's all in your head and it wouldn't help your socialist wannabe candidate anyway, you racist sexist paranoid berniebro people living in your mom's basement. Did I get all the slurs right?

Instead of 225K speeches in settings where an ordinary Black man isn't welcome, the Clinton team could have made election integrity a centerpiece of her strategy, limiting the predictable Repug tactics and perhaps avoiding the implication that she's a Wall Street candidate. But she didn't. Hope those Goldman Sachs supporters turned out in big numbers!! She even left it to Stein to ask for a recount in the key states!!

Oh well, must have been the Russians or Comey, Sanders or Stein or Nader kneecapped us, anything but ourselves and our failed campaign. Or, let's just fight the primary again. Why not?😭

Facing up to epic failure is painful. But it's necessary.

[Sunlei]

134. 10 years from now, trust me, no one will remember these damn emails.

“10 years from now, trust me, no one will remember these damn emails.”

“I prefer to stay on the important issues facing the American people,” he said. “There are other areas we could have gone, as well, that Trump went into, that we chose not to do it, because I think, in my own state, I can tell you that people do want to hear a serious discussion on serious issues.”

11/29/16 Sanders interview, 'Democracy now'

I still & always will, support both of them.

[Gothmog]

136. There is absolutely no reason to apologize to any Sanders supporters

[Mc Mike]

140. I backed Bernie in the primary. He said publicly that America was sick of hearing about the e-mails

He was right. I was glad he said it publicly. He was shooting down divisive repug propaganda about the non-scandal e-mail controversy.

[Scruffy1]

143. In my opinion neither was a great candidate.

Both have been around way too long in DC. Bernie had his negatives and so did Hillary, and that's what happens when you hang around DC, or even live a long life. The real difference is that Trump is a salesman, Hillary is not. I know he's all bullshit, but many voters aren't very sophisticated. He kept ti simple, told them what they wanted to hear and closed the deal. He also was masterful at controlling the media. Nearly every day for six months he had the headline. She never went bold to grab the headlines and instead the whole campaign was answering Trump. I've been through many elections and my opinion is that with the right candidate we could have taken the whole enchilada. The problem is largely a media one, but that's a given and as long as people watch it it's important to come to grips with controlling it, not just buying ads. All in all I think she was the best we had because we haven't bee grooming new talent. Bernie reminded me of William Jennings Bryan and his "Cross of Gold" speech. The sad thing is that a lot of people will suffer and some will die because of the Trump regime so I am really pissed at third party voters. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

[SMC22307]

144. It wasn't just the e-mails. Apology accepted,

but certainly not necessary. Thanks, we *were* right.

[harun]

145. No need to apologize to me. I put the problem much more on the Corporate Press and

the FBI working to throw the election towards Trump than the Hillary email issue.

Podesta emails and wikileaks probably had more influence too.

If we get to overhaul the Party the right way this will all work out okay .

[joanbarnes]

146. Thanks, I HATE it when I'm right.

[Bucky]

148. As a Sanders supporter, I always thought the email "scandal" was bullshit

It's still all so mind-boggling.

[budkin]

152. Thank you

Props for being able to admit you were wrong. That takes guts. What's important now is that we move forward together.

[Raine]

159. Thank you, that means a lot..

[liquid diamond]

160. You people are in for a nasty surprise.

[R B Garr]

165. No. It's Bernie who needs to appologize to his supporters.

Actually, he needs to apologize to all of us for knowingly aiding the release of this absolute monster on the United States because of his divisive and inflammatory rhetoric about Clinton and Democrats that Bernie nurtured way, way too long in the primary. Trump saw that scam on the public and picked up Bernie's torch and made absolute fools of the "movement".

Trump stole Bernie's divisive and inflammatory rhetoric to manipulate some sadly gullible people. Now look how Trump has humiliated the so-called "populist" message. He totally and completely has run a scam against the gullible Bernie supporter holdouts with his in-your-face appointments of billionaires who truly are corporate pariahs. I can't recall a single statement by Donald in the primaries which indicated that he favors billionaires who, according to him, show true business acumen by accumulating so much wealth. Now he tells you! Bernie handed Trump that game plan, and he owes us all an apology.

[Iggo]

166. Don't want one. Don't need one.

Apologies are for children.

[RelativelyJones]

178. You are apologizing to Clinton critics about being "right" about a right-wing smear campaign?

You have got to be kidding me.