It is very rich to have the same people who were complaining that HRC had too much support

[La Lioness Priyanka]

institutionally, to now want the way cleared for Keith Ellison, as though he should get no competition at all for this job of DNC chair.

I am actually fine with him, i believe perez will do a great job too and has better relationships with organized labor, I am fine with other people getting into the race.

What i am not fine with, is anger at people getting into the race, as though Ellison deserves a coronation.

(yes, i am using words that were used against HRC very deliberately)

[mcar]

1. Excellent point!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. i have my moments :)

[Wounded Bear]

2. I agree in principle...nt

[Maven]

3. Funny how that works isn't it?

"King Keith"

[NCTraveler]

4. Spot on. nt.

[SaschaHM]

6. Strolled over to Tom's twitter account...

and he is already being attacked. You would think that having two progressives especially one like Perez who has walked the walk up for DNC Chair would be a cause for celebration for them. He has fought for Economic AND Social Justice while serving in varying levels of federal and state government.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. i got stalked by a bernie supporter and had to change my phone number this election cycle

i literally am not surprised at all at what happens when there is a perception that you are going against the Bern. A lot of HRC supporters have had similar stalking stories.

i don't hold all Bernie supporters responsible for this, but i do think Bernie should have been more outspoken at the harassment HRC supporters got. It makes trusting him and his surrogates very difficult for me.

If Ellison wins, I hope he is great at his job. I think he will be, but as I said I have trust issues from this election cycle.

[BBG]

9. And HRC coulda/shoulda...

Hillary should have done more about DWS and the DNC bias in action against Bernie's campaign too. To me there is a difference in anecdotal actions of a few compared with the actions of an organization. If we can accept the mistakes of the DNC then why can't we accept the actions of assumed wayward Bernie supporters and not harbor resentment or animosity towards other Bernie supporters.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. What exact bias should she have fought against?

How is that similar to random citizens getting stalked

These are not at all the same things

[BBG]

43. Simple Contrast in Non-Action

I was trying to contrast the inaction on both candidates for perceived actions of their supporters. You have firsthand experience of one while all of us have firsthand experience of the other. To me there is a significant difference in magnitude which makes for a stronger resentment of the DNC than of Bernie associates. But that's my take on your comment about not trusting Bernie associated people and not meant to denigrate your experience.

[closeupready]

21. I just now saw this post - I know, in my heart, you are a good person.

So even though I've been confused about some of things I've read from you here recently, this reassures me that over time, your essential spirit will shine through. Hugs to you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. I've thought the same of you too. Nt

[closeupready]

26. ...

[WhiteTara]

33. This is no longer the Democratic Party

It now belongs to Sanders and BoBers. So, as they say, Shut up and sit down if you are not on board.

[SaschaHM]

44. That's what the BoBers wish.

To be frank though, that attitude pisses off rank and file democrats, who still hold most of the DNC delegate slots. It would be in Ellison's best interest if this didn't turn into a 2016 primary proxy war because he just doesn't have the numbers if it does.

[Hekate]

8. Bingo

[hellofromreddit]

11. So, we'd prefer holding the DNC chair job hostage until the brats get what they want?

Isn't this fun!

Note: I am also using words very deliberately.

(just to be clear, I'm OK with either one. My personal view is that Ellison would be a better choice partially because he would be associated with Sanders' movement and therefore could tap into that support base. But Perez and Ellison both seem perfectly OK, and both appear to have solid experience to draw on, so I won't be torn up is it's Perez. Especially since I agree with your point about organized labor)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. We should allow people to run. Not sure what this

Has to do with brattiness. People want some choices.

[hellofromreddit]

15. Check out some comments in the various "Bernie hurt Hillary" threads.

Plenty of comments to the nature of spoiled brat bernie or busters, taking balls and going home, etc.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. the bernie or bust movement was bratty as fuck.

and before you have a fit over it, i said this about the PUMAS in 08 too. except there were significantly fewer of them.

[NCTraveler]

38. It's the definition of BoBers.

I don't think they are as significant as some think. Actually, I think they are pretty insignificant. That said, taking their ball and going home is what makes them BoBers by definition.

[ZoomBubba]

28. Democrats put too much into the Sanders "movement"

... which lost by millions of votes in the primary.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Agree

Personally, I think Perez is a better choice. And would prefer Ellison to stay in the House.

[WhiteTara]

34. Me too.

I live in the south and Ellison will be eaten alive here. He may want a 3007 county strategy, but he will have far far fewer counties that will work with him. Perez is a known quantity (i.e., white male) so he will have a much better chance of making changes here.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. Perez is Hispanic

[WhiteTara]

45. Great that will help on one hand

and on the other, he looks white. That's all the teabaggers need around here. He's no stinking Mooslim.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. We'll never win them so I'm not sure catering to them

Is necessary, but I trust Obama and Perez is his guy. So I'm leaning Perez.

[WhiteTara]

47. I mean he will be able to walk down the street

without screams of "Go back to _____" followed by a racist epitaph. The Democrats here are rather racist too, but they have a slightly open mind and will work with him.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. Yeesh

[WhiteTara]

49. Sickening, isn't it.

I moved here from the west coast to be with my mother before she died. I'm still here and really want out.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. Hugs to you.

[WhiteTara]

53. Thanks

and to you

[George II]

14. I'm very happy with Perez, and he doesn't have the obvious "baggage"* that will be thrown...

...in Ellison's face if he were DNC chair.

*"baggage" - in keeping with your use of deliberately used HRC words.

[NewJeffCT]

16. I like Keith Ellison

but, would prefer he remain in Congress full-time. I think he said he would give up his seat if he got the DNC chair job, though.

I keep promoting him, but I have not heard his name mentioned at all, except in one early article, but why not Van Jones? He's run a progressive organization (Color of Change) and he's polished on TV.

But, either Perez or Ellison would be fine if they were full-time.

[brer cat]

17. Hypocrisy is alive and well

and it doesn't just belong to republicans.

[geek tragedy]

18. I tentatively support Ellison, but by all means there should be a vigorously contested race

based on who has the answers to help us win more elections and broaden our party's appeal.

[closeupready]

19. In the film "Sunset Boulevard", drama queen Norma Desmond (played by Gloria Swanson)

is in the back seat of a limo outside the gates of Paramount Studios, with William Holden's character (forgetting his name at the moment). Her chauffeur is attempting to find a way, ANY way, to get them to open up. !!

The two of them are waiting and conversing. They wait. And wait. And wait some more.

Finally, impatiently, and almost imperiously, she throws her head back and tokes from her cigarette-holder. From the corner of her mouth she mutters, "You know, if it weren't for me, there wouldn't BE a Paramount." (Wilder's intended message being, of course, 'if Hollywood thinks you're so important, why are you standing in line?')

That scene, by itself, would have blacklisted Gloria Swanson in every Hollywood restaurant until the end of her life. Taking the film in its totality, there were probably sufficient numbers of very important people pissed off that she probably had to live on cat food for a good portion of her remaining 30 years or so.

Thank God for "God's Love We Deliver".

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. Actually, what people are saying is, "NOW can we try this?".

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. if enough people want him, he'll win. if not, perez or third person will win.

[LanternWaste]

35. Actually, they're saying "it's his turn..."

Actually, they're saying "it's his turn..." since we're making unsupported allegations and all.

(using "actually" prior to an unsupported allegation merely makes one look even less clever).

[BlueMTexpat]

22. I'm with you.

Every. Single. Word.

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. This sentiment works with other configurations too.

What i am not fine with, is anger at people getting into the race, as though Ellison deserves a coronation.

What i am not fine with, is anger at Bernie getting into the race, as though Hillary deserves a coronation. (And then take it out on his supporters by inferring they are unhinged stalkers)


I agree with both of these overall sentiments. no one deserves a coronation based on perceived entitlement. Or race, age or even gender. It should be about ideas and policy.

[ZoomBubba]

27. I support Perez and hope he gets it ...

... don't see Ellison being anything aside from a distraction as every time he is mentioned, Democrats will have to defend his past support of Louis Farrakhan and alleged anti-Semitism. I'd rather have Democrats focused on winning instead of trying to continually shift the focus from Ellison.

Don't feel like dealing with it. If Ellison is selected, we're just going to have to settle with losing big in 2018.

Now I'm sure some people will say "it's not right to give into fear" or "appease" right-wingers, but we're thinking about what is good for the party. If we choose Ellison, we're going from a clean slate to giving the Republicans an even bigger gun to blow Democrats away with, especially in places where the state parties are dying. I don't know why no one else is concerned about this. It's like Democrats are only interested in patting themselves on the back and being righteous losers.

[ZoomBubba]

32. Also, there's this that Republicans can hammer him on:

MAHER: Then why doesn't your party come out against the Second Amendment? It's the problem.

ELLISON: I sure wish they would. I sure wish they would.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/03/22/bill_maher_why_doesnt_the_democratic_party_come_out_against_the_second_amendment.html

Sure, it's just a soundbite without context, but it will be used over and over again in mid- and rural-America.

If we want to win, we got to think strategically, not righteously. Being right means nothing if you can't win.

[LanternWaste]

37. One imagines the corollary is just as valid... winning means nothing if you're not just.

"Being right means nothing if you can't win..."

One imagines the corollary is just as valid... winning means nothing if you're not just.

However, I do understand the desire to win being prioritized over actual convictions-- it's ethically convenient to do so.

[ZoomBubba]

40. We cannot act on convictions ...

... if we don not win.

It's not saying we have to give them up. But we're not in a college debate where people have time to think about justice and economic philosophy. We have to have a broad, broad, BROAD brush and I don't see how we can wield that with the current dialogue in the party.

[Gothmog]

30. I have met and like Keith Ellison but I do not support his bid for DNC chair

I do not want a Sanders supporter in this position. I really like Tom Perez

[kentuck]

31. Perhaps the Party should think out of the box on this one?

Just name them co-Chairmen. It's never been done before. Maybe they can come up with a unifying message for the next election?

[Maru Kitteh]

41. Not the worst idea. Institutions and individuals are very resistant to shared power

but perhaps it's time we gave that model a go.

[LonePirate]

52. Very interesting idea! Certainly enough work to do for co-chairs.

Between fighting the Racist-in-Chief and other Repubs in Washington and also reconnecting and rebuilding the Dem party in the states, there is a lot of work to be done.

[okieinpain]

36. just from my little aa community perspective

it looks weird that no one was jumping at the job until mr. ellison volunteered. then it appears everyone is better for the job then mr. ellison. just some of the grumbles i'm hearing in my little part of the world.

the dnc better watch out because if trump delivers on his promise of better jobs for the aa community, the dnc is going to have more problems then deciding that mr. ellison isn't suited to lead the dnc.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. i like ellison but i would prefer he have some competition.

Also, Ellison volunteered a hot minute after it was open, and a lot of prominent dems endorsed him, including Schumer.

there is no way, DJT will deliver jobs for AA's or really anyone else.

[okieinpain]

54. just saying. it's out there and a big risk for dnc. n/t.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. But part of the reason I'm leaning Perez

Is because I see him as obamas guy, which engenders some more trust for him.

[LonePirate]

51. Perez was not part of St. Bernie's circle hence the opposition to hm joining the race.

[baldguy]

56. Most of the opposition to Ellison comes from his being a Muslim.

The very idea that he has "baggage" comes from this.

It's the same type of shit HRC has been dealing with for decades.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. some people are worried about the ADL

Coming out against him.