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Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:07 PM Dec 2016

How many think votes were flipped to Trump in all the swing states?

Now, how many think the Russians flipped the votes electronically and many in the GOP knew about all along?

Iran/Contra and Watergate would be child's play by comparison.

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How many think votes were flipped to Trump in all the swing states? (Original Post) Chasstev365 Dec 2016 OP
No question in my mind, even if it wasn't the Russians... Sancho Dec 2016 #1
Yup... only explanation that makes sense. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #6
How many? Just enough to win. See Kentucky, Wisconsin, et al. MaeScott Dec 2016 #50
Ditto 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2016 #77
Need an end to proprietary software for elections or at least let us look at it Angry Dragon Dec 2016 #2
Yes! No reason we should have to prove fraud; onus is on systems to prove transparency lostnfound Dec 2016 #11
Can you imagine if banks gave no statements and just said, "You think I stole? Prove it!" lostnfound Dec 2016 #12
A case in point: KS 2016 elections stevepal Dec 2016 #24
Consistent with Ron Baiman's results (28 states) triron Dec 2016 #83
Probably not the Russians, but flipping happened. The repugs cheat. brush Dec 2016 #3
Perhaps in collusion? triron Dec 2016 #84
Could very well be. brush Dec 2016 #85
Absolutely onecaliberal Dec 2016 #4
I believe it was the GOP themselves, a few furtive fuckers like Rove, who paid off pnwest Dec 2016 #5
Spot on pnwest jodymarie aimee Dec 2016 #10
YES!!! The meeting with Turtle McFuckLips was ... ALSO... about protecting the tab machines in some uponit7771 Dec 2016 #7
Duh unblock Dec 2016 #8
Sorry. Not buying this conspiracy. EL34x4 Dec 2016 #9
Agreed. Some of the recent OPs are really getting there. 7962 Dec 2016 #14
Same. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #18
Yeah...like they did with 8 year old emails. There is much more proof of Russian meddling LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #49
+1 WilliamH1474 Dec 2016 #46
The Pubbies did this, the Russkies just added distraction to keep you looking the other way. MaeScott Dec 2016 #52
Just happened upon this thread True Dough Dec 2016 #55
I'm happy it's mostly LPC members who are claiming it didn't happen... tells a lot uponit7771 Dec 2016 #62
Oh, it's a lot more than "LPC" members True Dough Dec 2016 #71
Ummm, bullshit but nice try... attempt noted too... Obama didn't say those words could care uponit7771 Dec 2016 #72
From Newsweek... True Dough Dec 2016 #74
Red Herring, I said if Obama and intel commmunity says such I'll change my mind... what you've uponit7771 Dec 2016 #78
Well, I won't waste any more time on you True Dough Dec 2016 #80
lol... this sounds so similar to cut and run statements made about a year ago no? sigh uponit7771 Dec 2016 #81
WAPO story claims Obama asked for protection of the machines in states and had proof the Russians uponit7771 Dec 2016 #61
this is very telling. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #64
#1. It might not have been Russians. #2. It's PROVEN the machines are hackable KittyWampus Dec 2016 #68
Not quite. I mean it is extraordinary that he pulled out every treestar Dec 2016 #76
I don't know how widespread it is, or who did it, but I saw flipping in FL. Sancho Dec 2016 #99
When such enormous effort is expended to prevent our even looking... Orsino Dec 2016 #111
I think votes were flipped and added AnotherDreamWeaver Dec 2016 #13
Significant counties & their voting machines ... Aimee in OKC Dec 2016 #15
Great homework report. nt AnotherDreamWeaver Dec 2016 #27
Yeap, ... Obama asked for protection of these machines too according WAPO story uponit7771 Dec 2016 #65
ME!!!!!!! C Moon Dec 2016 #16
Definitely Quanta Dec 2016 #17
Me. CanonRay Dec 2016 #19
No question, I knew it on Nov. 8 joanbarnes Dec 2016 #20
Clearly. byronius Dec 2016 #21
Something happened Curtis Dec 2016 #22
Oh yeah dflprincess Dec 2016 #23
They've all but bragged about it. ucrdem Dec 2016 #25
Votes Were Flipped Lonestarblue Dec 2016 #26
I really don't think the ruskies hacked the voting machines but elmac Dec 2016 #28
In Wisconsin, they didn't hand count Greybnk48 Dec 2016 #29
True it would be in the 60-70's, but that does not mean it could not be child's play for Russia To.. JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #30
The Sequoia AVC Edge ?? Aimee in OKC Dec 2016 #44
Yes, that looks like it. Thanks. JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #51
Good info in all your posts about the actual machines, Aim. Mc Mike Dec 2016 #97
I don't believe he won fairly, nor all the republican wins. It was a republican coup d'etat! Equinox Moon Dec 2016 #31
Personally i still think Comey was the problem tiredtoo Dec 2016 #32
i dont think the russians did. i think obama would have blown the whistle, and mopinko Dec 2016 #33
Disagree triron Dec 2016 #42
if they had flipped it, and obama knew, mopinko Dec 2016 #67
Obama admin did blow the whistle to a bipartisan group, Turtle McFuckLips didn't want to protect the uponit7771 Dec 2016 #63
Yes. Astraea Dec 2016 #34
Hillary had a superior get out the vote ground game. dubyadiprecession Dec 2016 #35
I don't think it made too much of difference in Iowa, North Carolina, or Ohio inwiththenew Dec 2016 #36
Nothing says rigged like.... czarjak Dec 2016 #37
Here's my take on why Trump won the rust belt: Chipper Chat Dec 2016 #38
Maybe the Russians put those Trump/Pence signs in people's yards? EL34x4 Dec 2016 #48
No doubt in my mind nm reggaehead Dec 2016 #39
Absolutely! hurple Dec 2016 #40
Anywhere where it was possible they tried. And succeeded much of the time. triron Dec 2016 #41
Ron Baiman's analysis is a worthless piece of shit and should be treated as such mythology Dec 2016 #57
Ron Baiman's credentials triron Dec 2016 #86
snap! LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #87
No Doubt colsohlibgal Dec 2016 #43
I certainly have suspicions jimlup Dec 2016 #45
There's a few reasons why i don't think so. Theybwouldn't have been able to hide obtaining all the dionysus Dec 2016 #47
Nope. I trust pubbies to do ANYTHING to win. Hacking voting machines MaeScott Dec 2016 #53
Yes, but first they made sure more Trump yard signs were planted everywhere BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #54
And the conspiracy included a 2.9 million national popular vote win EL34x4 Dec 2016 #58
That's the spirit BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #59
Well... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #56
There is no doubt in my mind that the repukes stole votes in the swing states. libtodeath Dec 2016 #60
Impossible to tell, which is the actual problem. Pacifist Patriot Dec 2016 #66
We know the election was rigged - major cheating happened. Joe941 Dec 2016 #69
Though I won't absolutely rule it out, I would require objective evidence to support LanternWaste Dec 2016 #70
SO: WE ALL AGREE! WHAT CAN WE DO TO EXPOSE THE TRUTH? Chasstev365 Dec 2016 #73
No, we DON'T ALL AGREE. progressoid Dec 2016 #75
I do。 No doubt about it。 UCmeNdc Dec 2016 #79
I'm sure there were some errors, but I doubt you could keep large vote tampering secret Hoyt Dec 2016 #82
It didn't have to be large...that's the POINT. LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #88
If the GOPers had lost by a few votes they would have said the same thing, or that "illegals" voted. Hoyt Dec 2016 #89
so. fucking. what. ? They will say that shit about us anyway. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #92
But, we don't have to be just like them in this respect. We lost, nothing is going to change that Hoyt Dec 2016 #93
it's impossible to do from remote locations. Exilednight Dec 2016 #90
really? so you've seen the inside of these machines and know what hardware was installed? yeah, NO!! TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #100
Please look at this triron Dec 2016 #91
I would need to see some credible and vetted evidence first. Throd 2.0 Dec 2016 #94
kick for visibility triron Dec 2016 #95
is the pope catholic? nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #96
Yes. Votes were flipped. Mc Mike Dec 2016 #98
Votes were definitiely switched in the swing states Fielg Dec 2016 #101
if you look at history of electronic voting, the GOP doesn't need Russian help to do that yurbud Dec 2016 #102
No direct hacking but voter suppression did the same thing underpants Dec 2016 #103
How many think votes were flipped to Trump in all the swing states? LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #104
Raising hand MFM008 Dec 2016 #105
kick for visibility triron Dec 2016 #106
Another emphatically raised hand! nt ElementaryPenguin Dec 2016 #107
I believe many negative factors converged in "election" 2016 all to benefit AmericanActivist Dec 2016 #108
I'd suggest focusing on the VRA and not Russia jfern Dec 2016 #109
They foisted those machines on us for a reason. Orsino Dec 2016 #110

Sancho

(9,103 posts)
1. No question in my mind, even if it wasn't the Russians...
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:08 PM
Dec 2016

I've seen it first hand in Florida in 2004. Still going on...

lostnfound

(16,648 posts)
11. Yes! No reason we should have to prove fraud; onus is on systems to prove transparency
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:51 PM
Dec 2016

We deserve proof of accuracy, and the ability to verify.

 

stevepal

(109 posts)
24. A case in point: KS 2016 elections
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:10 PM
Dec 2016

Why is it anytime somebody compares the "exit polls" with the machine results, there are so often (always?) wide differences between the two, statistically significant differences. At one time, before the use of proprietary machines with software supplied and calibrated by the private companies themseves, the exit polls nearly always matched the vote results pretty closely. Now, the only way they match is if the polling companies "adjust" the results of the exit polls to match the machine results.

Anyway, here's a case of some exit polls set up and conducted by a private individual, Beth Clarkson, a statistician at Wichita State University working with the NIAR (the Nat'l Institute of Aviation Research), and not a polling organization whose reputation might somehow be tarnished if their results did not match the machine results.

Kansas 2016: read it and weep.

http://showmethevotes.org/

pnwest

(3,295 posts)
5. I believe it was the GOP themselves, a few furtive fuckers like Rove, who paid off
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:18 PM
Dec 2016

the machine's makers and programmers to have a small percentage of D votes flip to R - just enough to make it count, but not enough to arouse real suspicion. I think they've been doing it since W, and Obama's margin was simply larger than the percentage of flips they built in. There is nothing too low for those ratfuckers to stoop to. I honestly was hoping Stein's audits would reveal machine tampering and blow the lid off the whole thing. I was hoping for a indictments and for the scandal to result in a complete overhaul of the whole electronic voting process. Might as well shit in one hand and wish in the other....that whole thing ended with a whimper....

 

jodymarie aimee

(3,975 posts)
10. Spot on pnwest
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:48 PM
Dec 2016

they have been doing this in Wisconsin since 2010. Walker didn't win 3 elections, they cheated. We know that. Missing 7,000 votes found in a Republican lady's car trunk. Just the amount the Judge lost by in 2011. Yeah, co inky dink.

uponit7771

(91,767 posts)
7. YES!!! The meeting with Turtle McFuckLips was ... ALSO... about protecting the tab machines in some
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:28 PM
Dec 2016

... states

unblock

(54,157 posts)
8. Duh
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:44 PM
Dec 2016

If their nominee merrily committed a federal crime by soliciting a criminal break-in to access private and/or governmental information -- and by a foreign agent to boot -- why on earth should we think their rabid followers wouldn't lie about vote totals and such?

Add to that Hillary was winning in the polls virtually every day of the campaign but somehow the one day donnie is ahead is Election Day.

Hmmmmmm.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
9. Sorry. Not buying this conspiracy.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:46 PM
Dec 2016

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and there just isn't any that point to the Russians hacking our election to the level where they were actually flipping votes.

Seriously. This is where we start looking like birthers.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
14. Agreed. Some of the recent OPs are really getting there.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:56 PM
Dec 2016

I saw stories & videos of votes switching as they were cast, for both candidates in different cases; those machines were taken out.
But so far NO evidence of russians doing anything. Even Pres Obama has said so.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
49. Yeah...like they did with 8 year old emails. There is much more proof of Russian meddling
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:34 AM
Dec 2016

than there is that Obama was born in Kenya.

MaeScott

(901 posts)
52. The Pubbies did this, the Russkies just added distraction to keep you looking the other way.
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:40 AM
Dec 2016

.....and why didn't Dems holla loudly when they saw voter suppression going on during the primaries?

Just asking.

True Dough

(20,330 posts)
55. Just happened upon this thread
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:53 AM
Dec 2016

and I'm glad you were the first to challenge this rather ludicrous notion. We must guard against wild conspiracy theories because we are lowering ourselves to the other side's level by grasping at straws. Good on you for pointing that out.

True Dough

(20,330 posts)
71. Oh, it's a lot more than "LPC" members
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:35 PM
Dec 2016

In the words of an Obama administration official in regards to the Russian hacking:

"There was nothing done on Election Day, so it must have worked."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-obama-said-putin-red-phone-about-election-hack-n697116


In the words of President Obama himself:

"This was an obsession that dominated the news coverage," Obama said during his end-of-the-year press conference of the rolling release of hacked emails from high-level Democrats, including Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta. "This was not some elaborate, complicated espionage scheme."

http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2016-12-16/obama-media-more-to-blame-than-russia-in-election


The sooner you can make reality your friend, the better!

uponit7771

(91,767 posts)
72. Ummm, bullshit but nice try... attempt noted too... Obama didn't say those words could care
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:56 PM
Dec 2016

... less what some unnamed Obama official said relative to the matter without any proof seeing there was ENOUGH proof or actionable intel to tell congress.

The last paragraph has little to nothing to do with the subject at hand... I'm talking about the voting machines and not the DNC.

I'm not going to make my reality FUD reality ... just report what's not in dispute.

Obama and the intel community say there was no hacking of the machines I'll take that to the bank

True Dough

(20,330 posts)
74. From Newsweek...
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 02:48 PM
Dec 2016
There does not appear to be evidence that Russia hacked the results of the 2016 presidential election. That is, there is not evidence that they broke into voting machines and changed the vote counts.

What there is evidence of is that, during the campaign, there were consistent and repeated cyber attacks on various institutions associated with the campaign. At least two states reported intrusions into their voter registration databases. The Democratic National Committee was hacked, and damaging emails were recovered and released to Wikileaks. John Podesta, Clinton’s campaign manager, had his email account hacked, and damaging information was again released to Wikileaks. And Russian-sponsored actors appear to have been involved in efforts to spread anti-Clinton and pro-Trump propaganda on social media and the internet.

These things, collectively, were an attempt to influence the election, not directly change it.


http://www.newsweek.com/quora-question-did-russia-hack-2016-election-533995


I could continue to cite credible sources that indicate no hacking of voting machines, but your eyes are obviously closed and your mind is made up.

Of course you haven't supplied one bit of proof that the voting machines were hacked. It just sheer speculation, and it looks bad for those who engage in it.

uponit7771

(91,767 posts)
78. Red Herring, I said if Obama and intel commmunity says such I'll change my mind... what you've
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 04:22 PM
Dec 2016

... proffered has nothing to little to do with that.

Those are the droids I'm looking for

True Dough

(20,330 posts)
80. Well, I won't waste any more time on you
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 04:31 PM
Dec 2016

Hope Santa Claus pays you a visit in 3 days. Surely you still believe in Santa too.

Merry Christmas!

uponit7771

(91,767 posts)
61. WAPO story claims Obama asked for protection of the machines in states and had proof the Russians
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:15 AM
Dec 2016

... were going after them.

I believe the 16 intel agencies vs the Russians and Conservatives

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
68. #1. It might not have been Russians. #2. It's PROVEN the machines are hackable
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:09 AM
Dec 2016

#3. It's PROVEN that there were irregularities in this past election. #4. Election activists are trying to get the evidence but can't.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
76. Not quite. I mean it is extraordinary that he pulled out every
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 03:27 PM
Dec 2016

swing state. Really from his point of view, from their side, it's a miracle they won the EC. And by thin margins in a lot of those states.

It's just miraculous enough to wonder if there was not some wrongdoing.

Probably not the Russians, but the local Republicans.

Sancho

(9,103 posts)
99. I don't know how widespread it is, or who did it, but I saw flipping in FL.
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 09:10 AM
Dec 2016

I saw a DRE that would change a vote from a Democrat to the Republican. I stopped and demanded that the machine be taken down and asked for it to be impounded. After some confusion, the (Repub) ES eventually had me escorted out and put the machine back in service. A technician "reset" the machine, and could just as easily been erasing the evidence. The tech worked for the DRE manufacturer. It was NOT a calibration error - but my wife and I stood there and even used a different ballot card and watched it flip a single election over and over before the review page. Out of a bank of machines, we only saw one that flipped votes in one close congressional election.

I also know that some good scholars have analyzed data here in Fl and concluded the patterns of undervotes and contrasts with non-DREs in the same precincts and correlations with other ballot initiatives don't make sense. Also, pre and post polls - even ones in the parking lot right after the voting - contradict the published results.

At least in Florida, there is no question in my mind that SOME precincts or counties have hacking of DREs. There will never be "extraordinary evidence" because the GOP has been successful in court (here in FL) at preventing valid recounts, software examination, or even effective poll watching.

I don't think the Russians even need to have been involved since it's gone on here since 2000, but the tabulators and DREs are vulnerable. It doesn't take but a handful of machines and a small manipulation to turn a state like Florida.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
111. When such enormous effort is expended to prevent our even looking...
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 07:19 AM
Dec 2016

...there's something there to find.

We just don't know what, exactly, or who the perps were.

AnotherDreamWeaver

(2,884 posts)
13. I think votes were flipped and added
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 08:53 PM
Dec 2016

Didn't have to be by Russians, the GOP has been doing it for a while.
Voting machines need a paper trail and hand count audit.

Aimee in OKC

(160 posts)
15. Significant counties & their voting machines ...
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 09:09 PM
Dec 2016

" Just three counties – Macomb County, MI; York County, PA and Waukesha County, WI – elected Donald Trump, per Cook Report. "

Michigan:
Macomb: Election Systems & Software Model 100 {336 precincts}
Macomb: Premier/Diebold (Dominion) AccuVote OS

Wayne: Election Systems & Software Model 100 {1007 precincts}
* * *
Pennsylvania
Lancaster: Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE-Dial {242 precincts}
Lancaster: Hart InterCivic eScan Optical Scan

York: Sequoia (Dominion) AVC Edge DRE-Touchscreen {159 precincts}
* * *
Wisconsin
Waukesha: Election Systems & Software DS200 Optical Scan {152 precincts}


MACHINES' DOCUMENTED MULTIPLE SECURITY CONCERNS
Excerpts from Verified Voting:

*ES&S M100 is easy to fool with counterfeit ballots.
*ES&S DS200: if the unit is powered on without a memory stick inserted, the interface screen becomes unresponsive.
*Premier/Diebold: the keys for the AccuVote-OS are the same for all AccuVote-OS machines and are easily pickable with readily available tools.
*Hart system: network interfaces are not secured against direct attack and there is little/no use of protective cryptography.
*Sequoia AVC Edge: significant security weaknesses throughout the Sequoia system raise serious questions as to whether the Sequoia software can be relied upon to protect the integrity of elections. Every software mechanism for transmitting election results and every software mechanism for updating software lacks reliable measures to detect or prevent tampering .
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Election Systems & Software:
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/ess/m100/ { Michigan }
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/ess/ds200/ {Wisconsin }

Premier/Diebold (Dominion):
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/premier-diebold/accuvote-os/ {MI}

Hart InterCivic:
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/hart-intercivic/escan/ {Pennsylvania }
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/hart-intercivic/eslate/ {Pennsylvania }

Sequoia (Dominion):
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/sequoia/avc-edge/ {Pennsylvania }

C Moon

(12,561 posts)
16. ME!!!!!!!
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 09:36 PM
Dec 2016

I recall members on DU saying that their early votes were being flipped.
Then, of course, DU was crashed election day/night.

Quanta

(195 posts)
17. Definitely
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 09:38 PM
Dec 2016

Count on it. Even if it can't be quantified, it definitely happened. Maybe not even by the Russians, but even on State/Local levels tampering happened for sure.

byronius

(7,604 posts)
21. Clearly.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:00 PM
Dec 2016

And it seems somewhat likely there was significant cooperation elicited either by ideological collusion or blackmail, or a combination of the two.

I've pondered this -- how could any American do such a thing? -- and I've come to the conclusion that these people choose to believe the things they're told (Muslim, Rigged, Pizzagate) and feel threatened by the future and new ideas enough that they're unconcerned with the means to their ends.

They're at war. We haven't felt it yet, but we will -- they've declared war on us, and on the future. And they needed an ally with serious state-level computer skills to engage in some major Ratfckery. And that Putin is a handsome fellow, donchaknow.

Curtis

(349 posts)
22. Something happened
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:01 PM
Dec 2016

I'm thinking more along the line that votes were added. There were plenty of areas that came in at over 100 percent voter turnout with muddied reasons, and wasn't there about 5000 votes taken from him before the Wisconsin recount that were considered over counts? How many over counts were missed?

dflprincess

(28,479 posts)
23. Oh yeah
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:07 PM
Dec 2016

strange how Hillary tended to lose in areas with no paper backup.

But, once again, the Democrats will roll over without a fight. Because pretending our elections are honest is more important than making sure they are.

ucrdem

(15,703 posts)
25. They've all but bragged about it.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:15 PM
Dec 2016

NPR did a treacly story about Trump's whiz-bang "digital" team headquartered in Houston that supposedly used mountains of state-of-the art technology to send out Tweets.



What do you think they were doing on election night?

Lonestarblue

(11,841 posts)
26. Votes Were Flipped
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:18 PM
Dec 2016

I absolutely believe that the vote tallies were manipulated--not by the Russians but by Republicans who determined that their party would win no matter what. I believe that Republicans stole the election for Bush in Ohio in 2004, and I believe they did it again for Trump in the key swing states. We need serious changes in our voting systems to make them fair, to prevent voting manipulation by Republicans, and to stop voter suppression of minority voters. Without that, we will never have another honest election, and we can look forward to an endless stream of Republican presidents.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
28. I really don't think the ruskies hacked the voting machines but
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:22 PM
Dec 2016

they did hack the DNC, Clinton, released emails and spread the false news sights and employed hundreds of bloggers, each with about 100 accounts, to harass Dems on facebook, twitter, ect... and to spread misinformation & were working with sniffles criminal organization.

Greybnk48

(10,395 posts)
29. In Wisconsin, they didn't hand count
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:24 PM
Dec 2016

the problematic counties, they ran them through the fucking machines again and never checked the machines.

Wisconsin is lost to overt corruption and should be ground zero for a Democratic Party uprising and renaissance. The majority of people here are progressives no matter what it looks like from outside.

Knock out the Koch brothers puppet, Walker, and the rest of the Walker shit show, and go from there.

JoeOtterbein

(7,791 posts)
30. True it would be in the 60-70's, but that does not mean it could not be child's play for Russia To..
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:46 PM
Dec 2016

I voted on an old (I know because they are the same machines used in my small town in SC PA (Shrewsbury, PA) for years now) and I do not have any idea what happened to my vote. It was just a flash on a screen. No Paper, not even the little lever on the old machines which were much more accurate because they were "dumb" analog machines. It is much easier to rig a software bug to rig the vote for thousands in a second than to add one a vote at a time on an analog machine.

Aimee in OKC

(160 posts)
44. The Sequoia AVC Edge ??
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:05 AM
Dec 2016

If this is the one you used, at about 2/3 down its specs page begins the "Security Concerns" list of known, very serious defects in not only that specific model, but as well the entire Sequoia system's design and implementation.

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/resources/voting-equipment/sequoia/avc-edge/

Mc Mike

(9,171 posts)
97. Good info in all your posts about the actual machines, Aim.
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 08:18 AM
Dec 2016

Last edited Wed Dec 28, 2016, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)

I remember in '08, my PA county (Allegheny) had its machines certified by an outfit called Systest from CO. Right after they "certified" our machines, Systest was itself "de-certified" by the U.S. Elections Assistance Commission. A few days before the election.

It was all very droll.

Equinox Moon

(6,344 posts)
31. I don't believe he won fairly, nor all the republican wins. It was a republican coup d'etat!
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:49 PM
Dec 2016

I believe it was combo of; purging voter rolls, deluge of voter suppression laws, provisional ballots that weren't counted/accounted, Detroit's 87!!! broken machines on election day. The probability of machines not being programed correctly, human error and a whole lot of tom-foolery by domestic and foreign actors.

The list goes on...

No way did he win fairly. NO WAY!!!!!

tiredtoo

(2,949 posts)
32. Personally i still think Comey was the problem
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:49 PM
Dec 2016

A few i know chose not to vote in presidential race or voted third party.

mopinko

(71,829 posts)
33. i dont think the russians did. i think obama would have blown the whistle, and
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:52 PM
Dec 2016

i have to assume the intelligence agencies were watching closely for any sign that anything was coming in from out of the country, fersher.

even if they kept it quiet, to conceal their methods and all that, i really cant believe that would have let the vote counts stand. they would have discussed w hillary, and urged her to challenge it. the fact that she didnt tells me there is no intel to say they did.

the other party, tho? way to strange to believe the results.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
42. Disagree
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:50 PM
Dec 2016

What if Obama of Hillary had 'blown the whistle' with fairly strong circumstantial evidence? Our news media would have made life miserable for them. Plus there's the chance of social upheaval which they both probably thought made it not worth the risk.

mopinko

(71,829 posts)
67. if they had flipped it, and obama knew,
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:05 AM
Dec 2016

there would be evidence. the cia would have had those voting machines in their hands, and torn apart. they were watching it all in real time, of that i had no doubt.

uponit7771

(91,767 posts)
63. Obama admin did blow the whistle to a bipartisan group, Turtle McFuckLips didn't want to protect the
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 10:18 AM
Dec 2016
Specifically, the White House wanted congressional leaders to sign off on a bipartisan statement urging state and local officials to take federal help in protecting their voting-registration and balloting machines from Russian cyber-intrusions.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.a231ea7ff1a9

dubyadiprecession

(6,344 posts)
35. Hillary had a superior get out the vote ground game.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 10:56 PM
Dec 2016

Her campaign was run professionally compared to Trumps. The last polls were showing a "Sustainable lead" for her for all the ups and down in the polls.
All that said, if votes can be changed with malware and then programmed to erase when finished, then yes i do believe it was possible that Russia hacked into our states election software.

inwiththenew

(987 posts)
36. I don't think it made too much of difference in Iowa, North Carolina, or Ohio
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:01 PM
Dec 2016

I think he was going to wins thse with or without just looking at the margins but in states like Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania it may have done it.

Chipper Chat

(10,033 posts)
38. Here's my take on why Trump won the rust belt:
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:08 PM
Dec 2016

I live in Indiana and expected Hillary to lose the state by about 10 points (I wasn't worried because she would win all of the other rust states). I was watching the returns and was absolutely shocked out of my gourd when MSNBC reported that Rump won Indiana by about 60% to 30%. I knew then and there if he won Indiana by that much it was going to be a close one in Michigan and Wisconsin. For a year all I saw were TrumpPence signs in yards. I only saw ONE Clinton-Kaine sign (on a lake in Kosciusko County). My extended family ALL voted for Trump. I should have seen it coming. However, ever since the Ken Blackwell episode I've never trusted the election process. So wouldn't surprise me if 10 years from now someone squeals and we find out the truth.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
48. Maybe the Russians put those Trump/Pence signs in people's yards?
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 04:08 AM
Dec 2016

That way we would believe it when he won!

It's all part of the conspiracy!!!!

hurple

(1,324 posts)
40. Absolutely!
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:43 PM
Dec 2016

Odd that those states exit polls do not match the results, and only those states don't match.

 

triron

(22,240 posts)
41. Anywhere where it was possible they tried. And succeeded much of the time.
Wed Dec 21, 2016, 11:45 PM
Dec 2016

Ron Baiman's analysis points to that (or something equivalent)

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
57. Ron Baiman's analysis is a worthless piece of shit and should be treated as such
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 08:23 AM
Dec 2016

Using the "raw data" from an exit poll is mindnumbingly stupid if you understand what the "raw data" is. Here's a hint, it's just the people they interviewed, not correct for the demographics of the polling place or those that stopped to be polled. You can't properly sample if you don't account for the actual universe of voters, not just those who happen to stop.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ten-reasons-why-you-should-ignore-exit/

Please stop holding up Baiman as anything other than a fraud trying to sell metaphorical snake oil.

colsohlibgal

(5,276 posts)
43. No Doubt
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:00 AM
Dec 2016

Not just the Russians either. Between vote flipping and the Electoral College this con man is the most illegitimate person declared a winner.

Nov 8 will join Dec 7 as dates that will live in infamy.

An old saying is that it is always darkest before the dawn, I hope fervently that will be the case...but I'm not optimistic it will be.

jimlup

(8,008 posts)
45. I certainly have suspicions
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:57 AM
Dec 2016

I doubt that we will ever really find out though.

I don't know if we would know nor if those in charge of the voting (mostly Republicans at the top levels of State governments) would care. I think they wouldn't and would marginalize anyone even suggesting such a thing because they always put themselves and their ends above country and democracy.

dionysus

(26,467 posts)
47. There's a few reasons why i don't think so. Theybwouldn't have been able to hide obtaining all the
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 03:20 AM
Dec 2016

Installing the modems, and such work would have been noticed.

There would have been too many people involved to keep it secret, especially coordinating with the idiot repukes.

The biggest thing is, is the russians were able to pull off such a feat, the last thing they do is make it look suspicious; they wouldn't have altered ALL of those states, they would have made it look closer than it was; not a squeaker or close enough to trigger recounts, but not a big win, either. A margin that wouldn't draw all the attention that there is right now.

Classic case of occams razor.

People are doing incredible contortions to refuse to admit the fact that she lost.

MaeScott

(901 posts)
53. Nope. I trust pubbies to do ANYTHING to win. Hacking voting machines
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:46 AM
Dec 2016

..while complaining about voter fraud Is right up their alley. They will do anything, cheat, lie and steal to win. We need to paper ballot and hand count our vote.

BeyondGeography

(40,015 posts)
54. Yes, but first they made sure more Trump yard signs were planted everywhere
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:49 AM
Dec 2016

and more people dressed as Trump supporters showed up at Trump rallies than did at Romney rallies. Then, on Election Day, more people who look like Trump voters show up at the polls in order fake out the media and those public officials who are inclined to care. The conspiracy had to be extended to swing counties, so places that went big for Obama in 2008 and less big in 2012 barely went for Hillary this time around or swung to Trump. You had to do this even in deep blue states and the handful of swing states that Hillary managed to win.

It was all so exquisite.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
58. And the conspiracy included a 2.9 million national popular vote win
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 09:27 AM
Dec 2016

for Hillary Clinton just to show that they had a sense of humor.

Mike Nelson

(10,288 posts)
56. Well...
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 07:56 AM
Dec 2016

...as a rule, Republicans don't care as much about being "fair" and Trump supporters must be off the chart in that respect.

libtodeath

(2,892 posts)
60. There is no doubt in my mind that the repukes stole votes in the swing states.
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 09:51 AM
Dec 2016

There is no possible way cheato won FL,WI,MI and PA fairly.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,903 posts)
66. Impossible to tell, which is the actual problem.
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 11:01 AM
Dec 2016

Lack of confidence that electronic voting is secure. We have to have that doubt removed or our elections will always be tainted.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
70. Though I won't absolutely rule it out, I would require objective evidence to support
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:33 PM
Dec 2016

Though I won't absolutely rule it out (I also won't rule out the appearance of intergalactic aliens landing in north Texas tomorrow morning and stopping by my place for a chat and a cup of tea), I would require objective evidence (which means neither anecdotal nor circumstantial) specifically and directly pointing to a collective effort of machine-flipping to support any faith in that hypothesis.

Chasstev365

(5,191 posts)
73. SO: WE ALL AGREE! WHAT CAN WE DO TO EXPOSE THE TRUTH?
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 12:57 PM
Dec 2016

This is the 3rd stolen election by the GOP and the American public needs to know the truth. Ideas?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
82. I'm sure there were some errors, but I doubt you could keep large vote tampering secret
Thu Dec 22, 2016, 05:36 PM
Dec 2016

for long. I'm sure the conspiracy folks deny that Wisconsin recount resulted in MORE votes going to Trump.

We lost, more ignorant white wingers voted than Democrats.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
88. It didn't have to be large...that's the POINT.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 11:58 AM
Dec 2016

tens of thousands of votes swayed the electoral college. Not even hundreds of thousands. This did not have be a large scale operation...or a DEEP operations. A few thousand here and there did it.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
89. If the GOPers had lost by a few votes they would have said the same thing, or that "illegals" voted.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 12:14 PM
Dec 2016

We lost, it should not have even been close enough for conspiracy theories that make us sound like "birthers" or something.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
93. But, we don't have to be just like them in this respect. We lost, nothing is going to change that
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 01:38 PM
Dec 2016

and I see no reason to sound like a bunch of whiners just because GOPers do/would.

 

TheFrenchRazor

(2,116 posts)
100. really? so you've seen the inside of these machines and know what hardware was installed? yeah, NO!!
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 04:40 PM
Dec 2016

you don't have a clue, because everything about the machines is "proprietary." please don't make statements which you have absolutely no way of knowing are true.

Mc Mike

(9,171 posts)
98. Yes. Votes were flipped.
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 08:34 AM
Dec 2016

Don't discount the official repugs' hackers, and the far right's hackers, add them to Putin's military sig intel hackers.

Fielg

(7 posts)
101. Votes were definitiely switched in the swing states
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 04:47 PM
Dec 2016

We not only had Russian interference but the republican terrorists that controlled the state house. It is not how many votes you get, but who is counting the votes. There were thousands of votes not counted for Hillary.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
102. if you look at history of electronic voting, the GOP doesn't need Russian help to do that
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 04:52 PM
Dec 2016

Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot unless they've got hard evidence Russia did it, and it is aggravating to those of us who wish they had made a big deal about when Republicans used electronic motion machines to rig the vote in 2000 and 2004.

underpants

(186,701 posts)
103. No direct hacking but voter suppression did the same thing
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 04:56 PM
Dec 2016

There were active and aggressive organized suppression in Florida and Wisconsin. I don't know the details on the missing votes in Michigan.

On top of the airtime Trump got while Hillary got only negative coverage (except for 4 specific events) including in the primaries. Bernie got no coverage at all even when he was pulling 10-20K BEFORE Trump even got it

Add in the Comey letter, "she's already won" which diminished turn out, and the fact that a woman being elected AFTER the black guy was too much for a lot of people to handle.

LenaBaby61

(6,991 posts)
104. How many think votes were flipped to Trump in all the swing states?
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 05:10 PM
Dec 2016

I'm only speaking for me, but OP I'll always believe that the ruskies and GOP were in on the FIX. Maybe not coordinated, but working together independently to get the results they wanted.

TOO many "coincidences" telling me that this last GE was rigged, voter suppressed/voter disenfranchised, cyber-hacked and Comeye'd for me to believe otherwise.

AmericanActivist

(1,019 posts)
108. I believe many negative factors converged in "election" 2016 all to benefit
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 02:40 AM
Dec 2016

tRump, how odd that they all benefit him over her dontcha think? Strip & Flip is only part of it.

tRump is not legitimate. Nobody can prove he is. He fought recounts & audits. The only way to prove he's legit is to have a forensic audit of the election. I double dog dare anyone to prove he's legit. And, btw, what American much less Pres-elect or State Gov official is against secure transparent verified elections? Why not prove legit? Why not remove shadow of doubt? Innocent people have nothing to hide.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
110. They foisted those machines on us for a reason.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 07:08 AM
Dec 2016

It wasn't done to save money or time. It was to eliminate those pesky ballots and their paper trails. It was to deify a machine that they could control easily.

Everyone who really wants to hack the vote already is.

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