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Axolotls

(21 posts)
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:06 AM Dec 2016

The DNC messed up (Hillary '16 instead of '08)

(Hope I've posted in the correct forum, I think so but apologies if it belongs in General Discussion)

Would it not have been better had the DNC nominated Hillary in '08, and Obama this year? I say it would've, and had that happened instead, since many voters were open to/seeking change and something different this time--Trump wouldn't be the incoming president.

While it would've only been 8 years since Bill was in office, a lot of people had Bush fatigue and much disillusionment with the gop so whoever the democrat candidate was in '08 would've been a shoo-in, plus there wasn't the anti-establishment fervor as in this cycle, where being a Clinton didn't sit well with many (the same problem Jeb Bush faced and being part of a dynasty). Don't get mad please but I didn't like Hillary, didn't vote (I live in a deep blue state so it wouldn't matter but even if I was in a swing state, unsure I still could do it as that was a bridge too far)...but 2008 was her only real guaranteed shot, and she would've won.

Obama could've been put "on hold", and he was young and had time on his side. Also unlike Hillary, he had the immense likability and incredible magnetism and great campaigning skills, and lack of baggage and scandal. Does anyone think he would've lost to Trump? I don't. The DNC screwed up big time--and thinking it was a good idea that after 8 years of a democrat president, Hillary of all people was a savvy move and sure thing. Wtf.

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The DNC messed up (Hillary '16 instead of '08) (Original Post) Axolotls Dec 2016 OP
The rule, I'm told, is that the nominee is the candidate who gets the most votes. Orsino Dec 2016 #1
Re: the most votes SFnomad Dec 2016 #5
And delegates' are the votes that count. Orsino Dec 2016 #7
That's only because Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan NobodyHere Dec 2016 #18
You count the votes that voted ... and with that, Clinton won the popular SFnomad Dec 2016 #24
According to Wikipedia, Prez O BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #21
Only if you allocate "uncommitted" Michigan votes to Obama ... sorry, that don't work SFnomad Dec 2016 #23
It also helps that she graciously BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #26
The "DNC" didn't nominate Obama or Hillary SFnomad Dec 2016 #2
I'm an independent but left-leaning Axolotls Dec 2016 #8
If you say so ... SFnomad Dec 2016 #10
Yeah, um, voters BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #3
I don't know, but if Hillary was the nominee in 08, that would have inspired muntrv Dec 2016 #4
That would've happened with any gop candidate Axolotls Dec 2016 #9
Not sure Obama would've been as popular in 2016 Seasider Dec 2016 #6
All that is valid Axolotls Dec 2016 #11
BULL FUCKIN SHIT !!!! COMEY, Voter Suppression and RUSSIA !! Fuck all the other bullshit FUD is tryi uponit7771 Dec 2016 #12
That didn't help Axolotls Dec 2016 #14
It didn't help RWTP of Comey, Voter Suppression and Russia weren't a factor and that's a good thing uponit7771 Dec 2016 #15
It would have been better for Hillary Clinton but not necessarily for Barack Obama mtnsnake Dec 2016 #13
It was even tougher since Hillary was the candidate Axolotls Dec 2016 #16
What does it have to do with DNC? Obama run a better campaign and got the nomination. LisaL Dec 2016 #17
Welcome to DU. geek tragedy Dec 2016 #19
It wasn't the DNC. BlueMTexpat Dec 2016 #20
Obama was the best President of my lifetime. Warren DeMontague Dec 2016 #22
the DNC did not nominate . people ran in a Primary. Obama won in 2008 and HIllary won in 2012 JI7 Dec 2016 #25

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
1. The rule, I'm told, is that the nominee is the candidate who gets the most votes.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 AM
Dec 2016

It wasn't up to the DNC in any practical sense.

I could imagine the sort of damage they would have done by picking the other candidate--no matter that I think she could also have won.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
5. Re: the most votes
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:17 AM
Dec 2016

Not always true ... Clinton also got more votes in 2008 in the Democratic Primary. Obama beat her in the delegate count.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
7. And delegates' are the votes that count.
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:24 AM
Dec 2016

Sure, attempts were made to woo them, and I'm okay with that in the primary, as I was with EC this month.

That party delegates wrnt with Obama was weird, but once they had declared, imagine the outcry and fallout had they flipped.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
24. You count the votes that voted ... and with that, Clinton won the popular
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 03:08 AM
Dec 2016

And Obama won what mattered, the delegate count.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
23. Only if you allocate "uncommitted" Michigan votes to Obama ... sorry, that don't work
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 03:05 AM
Dec 2016

If you count the votes that voted (and that means not including caucus "estimates&quot ... your link shows Clinton got the popular vote.

17,821,967 (Clinton) and 17,535,335 (Obama)

Even if you add caucus estimates, Clinton still won the popular vote, but by a slimmer margin.

BlueMTexpat

(15,493 posts)
26. It also helps that she graciously
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 02:26 PM
Dec 2016

conceded even with that and did not put SDs or anyone else on the spot.

I believe that we can agree that the primary campaign in 2016 - even with Hillary's insuperable popular vote lead along with SDs - did not end nearly as graciously.

And that's all that I will say about that.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
2. The "DNC" didn't nominate Obama or Hillary
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:09 AM
Dec 2016

And typically the only people that use the term "democrat president" are right wingnuts.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
10. If you say so ...
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:29 AM
Dec 2016

... and I have no reason not to believe you, but ...

"Democrat President"
"Democrat Party"
"Democrat whatever"

is usually a sign of right wingnuttery. They remove the "ic" from the end of the adjective because they want to point out that the "Democrat Party (uppercase D)" is not really democratic (lowercase d).

muntrv

(14,505 posts)
4. I don't know, but if Hillary was the nominee in 08, that would have inspired
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:11 AM
Dec 2016

Republican turnout for McCain. I recall repubs wanting Hillary to be the nominee for this reason.

Axolotls

(21 posts)
9. That would've happened with any gop candidate
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:28 AM
Dec 2016

Not just McCain...and unlike Trump, McCain didn't inspire enthusiasm.

Seasider

(178 posts)
6. Not sure Obama would've been as popular in 2016
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:19 AM
Dec 2016

In 2008, Obama was still riding high from the attention he got in his 2004 convention speech and was viewed as one of the rising stars of the Democratic party. A lot of the glow I think would've faded by 2016 if he continued being a Senator. Yes, he would've had more experience in Washington but also more time in the Senate meaning more things for his enemies to scrutinize him on and much easier to paint him as a Washington insider. For me, I actually would've preferred Hillary in 2008 for a variety of reasons but whose to say we wouldn't have gotten the same results in the General election?

Axolotls

(21 posts)
11. All that is valid
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:32 AM
Dec 2016

But Obama had the charisma, engaging personality and campaigning skills which likely would've offset those things. He was exceptional enough to overcome it.

Axolotls

(21 posts)
14. That didn't help
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:45 AM
Dec 2016

Which goes to what I'm pointing out--Hillary was flawed and vulnerable so these these factors took hold and the election was close enough whereas if it was another candidate it shouldn't and probably wouldn't have been. It wouldn't have been close at all with Obama.

uponit7771

(91,671 posts)
15. It didn't help RWTP of Comey, Voter Suppression and Russia weren't a factor and that's a good thing
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:46 AM
Dec 2016

mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
13. It would have been better for Hillary Clinton but not necessarily for Barack Obama
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 11:39 AM
Dec 2016

Following 8 pathetic years of Bush Cheney opened the door wide open for whoever the Democratic nominee turned out to be in 2008. In 2016, it was tougher because it wasn't "our turn" to win. The only thing that should have made 2016 a sure win was when Trump became the republican nominee, although we all know how that turned out.

Axolotls

(21 posts)
16. It was even tougher since Hillary was the candidate
Fri Dec 23, 2016, 12:16 PM
Dec 2016

It's true about this cycle being tougher, and that's why Hillary as the nominee was a risky prospect. I don't want to get into it on this thread because it's been gotten into countless times, but aside from Obama being a formidable force if he had been a candidate this year...Bernie was the natural, obvious choice. Some people say there's no way he would've won, he would've gotten clobbered in the general--there's no way to know that for sure and besides, the same exact things were the conventional wisdom regarding Trump.

BlueMTexpat

(15,493 posts)
20. It wasn't the DNC.
Sat Dec 24, 2016, 05:59 PM
Dec 2016


It was the primary voters in 2008. You see, the Dem party has this rule that the person who gets the most votes in the primaries is the nominee. In 2008, that person was Barack Obama. In 2016, that person was Hillary Clinton.

We can speculate all we want - and I was a Clinton voter in 2008, who got fully behind Obama - and I was for some of the reasons that you mention. But you underestimate the absolute hatred of Hillary that the Reich Wing has always had, although they might not have been as well-organized then.

But Hillary was not the nominee in 2008 and all the speculation in the world will not change the facts.
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