Luzerne County, Pennsylvania vs. Loudoun County, VA

[YoungDemCA]

Luzerne County, PA

Median household income: $45,897

2008
Obama: 53.3%
McCain: 44.9%

2012
Obama: 51.5%
Romney: 47.2%

2016
Trump: 57.9%
Clinton: 38.6%

Clinton's performance in Luzerne was 19 percentage points less than Obama's was in 2012.

By contrast:

Loudoun County, VA

Median household income: $115,574

2008
Obama: 53.7%
McCain: 45.4%

2012
Obama: 51.5%
Romney: 47.1%

2016
Clinton: 55.1%
Trump: 38.2%

Clinton's performance in Loudoun was 3-4 points more than Obama's was in 2012.

Many of the wealthiest areas in the country moved toward the Democrats in this presidential election, while many of the poorest areas in the country moved toward the Republicans. However, many of those same wealthy areas that voted for Clinton still voted for Republicans down-ballot, while conversely, many of those same poor areas that voted for Trump voted for Democrats down-ballot.

The Democrats have always distinguished themselves - to one extent or another - as being the party of the poor and working classes against the Republicans, who are the party of the rich and well-connected. Something is very, very wrong with the picture that has emerged from the Clinton vs. Trump election results this year.

[jehop61]

1. And, therefore

..............?

[YoungDemCA]

3. The Democrats have created an opening for populist demagogues like Trump

in large part, because they have increasingly rejected anything remotely left-wing in the Party in attempts (which have met with mixed success FTR) to chase upscale suburban voters and rich donors from Wall Street banks and large corporations.

Take a look at this:



Note that both Bill and Hillary Clinton have championed Third Way politics and policies.

Can you not see anything wrong with this picture?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

8. I'm not a fan of "Third Way" neoliberalism either.

I still voted for Hillary (and all Democrats) the earliest that I've ever voted, mostly because Trump is a sociopath.

Ugh, I can't believe how many people fell for his load of BS.

The good news is that I think old-style economic liberalism/populism is on the rise! I just hope we survive Trump to make it happen!

I also hope that minority voters don't get scared off by any future candidates who preach about our class struggles in this country. It doesn't mean that social gains of the past will be cast aside! It's terrible that many African Americans didn't get to enjoy the benefits of greater economic justice under FDR (and other Democrats) compared to whites, but modern Democrats are more aware now.

[YoungDemCA]

10. I voted straight D too. I voted for Clinton in the primaries.

I agree with your points, by and large.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

11. I did a "bad thing" and didn't vote in Ohio's primary.

I was leaning toward Bernie, but I figured the race was largely over anyway.

I wasted far more of my time following the Republicans! I was "licking my chops" over Trump possibly winning their nomination and tearing apart the GOP! Holy crap, I certainly misread the situation!

[yeoman6987]

2. Not really a fair comparison since the federal government employs many

Pennsylvania is far away from D.C. For them to work there.

[Truth321]

4. Everything is Topsy turvy for sure

[Buckeye_Democrat]

5. I had to look up Luzerne County since I'm not familiar with the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzerne_County,_Pennsylvania

Looks like it used to be a strong mining area? Ugh, it seems they largely believed Trump's lies about bringing back old industries too.

The county is a bellwether of the state having voted for the presidential candidate who carried Pennsylvania in every election since 1960. While the Democratic Party has been historically dominant in county-level politics, on the statewide and national levels Luzerne County leans toward the Democratic Party only slightly.

In 2016 Donald Trump won the county with 58% of the vote, the largest margin since President Nixon in 1972.

[Fast Walker 52]

6. too much FoxNews/RW crap for them, I would guess

the richer people are probably better educated and have access to better information is my guess

[YoungDemCA]

7. ....

[YoungDemCA]

9. Serious response: Did you even look at the results? Many of these Trump counties voted for Obama

And the margins that Clinton lost them by are frankly, scandalous. And like I said, many of these same Trump counties voted for Democrats down-ballot. The same cannot be said of many of the rich Clinton counties.

You cannot blame such an unbelievably massive drop in working-class white support from Obama to Clinton solely on racism, or Comey, or the Russians. That shit doesn't stick, and I know that I am far from alone in thinking that.

[synergie]

12. You can actually. It's more the utter failure of the media to even bother to

cover candidates fairly. You also forget the misogyny at play here, and if you've ever been to this particular county in PA, you'd realize that there is a lot of racism here, they especially do not appreciate a white lady calling themselves out on it. An overlooked factor here is that many thought a vote for the black guy was enough proof that they were not racist. Then HRC came along and told them they had a lot more work to do, that message didn't go over well, and then you have all the other factors you dismiss so easily, all shit that was quite sticky.

I'd also like to remind you that there seem to have been issues with counting or verifying votes in particularly democratic areas. The problem here is that there were attacks on multiple fronts ALL favoring Trump, and that wasn't a messaging thing, it wasn't a campaign thing or a strategy thing.

[JI7]

13. Obama also held back on talk of racism while HIllary called it out

she may have felt as a white person she could do it without negative backlash the way it would with obama.

but we saw this wasn't true.

obama himself went down in approvals among whites when he talked of racism.

[Garrett78]

15. Indeed.

Obama spoke very little about racism, especially in his first years (this helped make him acceptable for white folks). He's spoken out a little more in recent years, as have Clinton and other Democrats. Throughout American history, there's been a white backlash to racial progress.

[Garrett78]

14. Overall, Clinton did better among those making $50,000 or less per year.

And she won among those for whom 'the economy' is a top priority.

But there's no doubt white resentment has been building over the last 8 years, and anti-intellectualism has also gotten stronger. I've seen in more than one article that many felt both Obama and Clinton were too focused on transgender bathrooms. Given how little attention either gave that issue, the only way someone could get that impression is by way of the media, particularly Fox News and right wing radio. Those folks weren't about to vote for Clinton, and most wouldn't have voted for Obama had he been able to run again.

An article everyone ought to read: "Why Did Some White Obama Voters Go for Trump?"

Obama spoke less about race than any other Democratic President in a long time, yet white Americans have become increasingly convinced that Democrats want to enslave white people. Seriously, the American electorate is becoming increasingly unhinged. Only 14% of Trump voters are sure Clinton was running a child sex ring out of a D.C. pizzeria, but another 32% are unsure. So, 46% are positively batshit crazy. And that's only the most outlandish belief. A clear majority of Trump's supporters subscribe to all sorts of other crazy beliefs, such as the insane notion that Trump is a populist.

[YoungDemCA]

16. "The American electorate" isn't one monolithic thing. Treating it like it is is part of the problem.

And in the context of an election, some crazy beliefs historically haven't mattered that much. And they still really don't, overall - Republican voters by no means have a monopoly on crazy beliefs, and conversely, Democratic voters are far from impervious in that respect.

Political campaigns are about winning elections, not purifying other people's belief systems. The latter is more suited to religion. I want progressive, left-wing policies to have a fighting chance. But they won't if Democrats continue to practice liberal Head Count politics - which should have been utterly discredited by the outcome of this election (and yet...).

[Garrett78]

17. I didn't say it was monolithic.

But there's a reason that the vast majority of fake news pieces, which were all the rage this past cycle, were pro-Trump. His supporters are far more inclined to believe utter nonsense. Long gone are the days when it might be reasonable to assume most are working off a set of agreed-upon facts (with differences of opinion over the causes and appropriate response to those facts). In this era of 24-hour cable "news"/infotainment and the Internet, tens of millions of people simply deny facts and have created an alternate reality. This, along with a white backlash, has contributed to increased polarization.

The year is 2016 and a candidate endorsed by the KKK just got more than 60 million votes and is the president-elect with the help of a vestige of slavery (i.e., the electoral college system).

As I posted about a month ago:

Trump brags about and commits sexual assault

Trump was endorsed by the KKK and has a long history of overt bigotry (plus he discriminated at his housing developments)

Trump suggested banning Muslims

Trump suggested most Mexican immigrants are rapists and drug dealers (in fact, that's precisely when his campaign picked up steam)

Trump lies and contradicts himself constantly (at a rate *much* higher than Clinton, according to Politico and anyone with a brain)

Trump cheered the housing collapse because he could capitalize on it

Trump ran a fraudulent "University"

Trump stiffed the contractors/blue collar workers he hired

Trump isn't even coherent much of the time (read the transcripts from his speeches and debate performances)

Trump didn't put forth substantive policy positions, whereas Clinton did (on economic matters and everything else)

Keep all of that (and more) in mind when you excuse people for supporting Trump. There was *no* excuse for voting for Trump. And inherent in the "working class whites" narrative is the notion that working class POC don't care about economic issues, as well as the notion that Clinton didn't discuss economic issues at length. Nothing could be further from the truth. Someone in another thread said Clinton didn't address rising health care costs, which is completely untrue. Her website (which you can still access), as well as speeches she gave, addressed rising health care costs at length--to a much greater extent than Trump did.

Again, Clinton won among the working class. If a segment of the *white* working class has much different priorities than the working class as a whole, one need not think too long and hard to determine why that might be.

In an increasingly diverse nation, racism, sexism, xenophobia, heterosexism and Christian supremacy takes precedence for tens of millions of Americans. Those things 'trump' everything else. And it is the GOP that plays "identity politics."

The fact is a large percentage of the American electorate cannot be reached by the Democratic Party no matter what (that's always been the case). Toss in some voter suppression, unprecedented FBI interference, a pathetic ratings-focused, spectacle-obsessed media (that promotes false equivalencies in the name of "balance" and doesn't think it appropriate to fact check) and a candidate (Clinton) who was victimized by decades of hate (with a boring, moderate running mate) and there you have it--a razor thin margin in a few battleground states being the difference. I'm fairly confident that the 2020 Democratic nominee can win with the exact same message as Clinton, so long as that person isn't Clinton. Which is not to say there aren't things the Clinton campaign should have done differently (such as more outreach to Democrats, particularly in rural areas, in purple states).

Also, one must consider just how many people subscribe to patently false beliefs:

1) http://www.alternet.org/story/148826/16_of_the_dumbest_things_americans_believe_--_and_the_right-wing_lies_behind_them

2) http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/you-think-you-knew-crazy-think-again-10-shockers-increasingly-unhinged-right

We must accept that we live in a country in which tens of millions of people believe wholeheartedly in some of the most absurd (and often vile) things imaginable.

[Garrett78]

18. And let me add a point I made in another thread I started:

Trump won't lose support even if he doesn't bring jobs back from overseas, even if he continues to align himself with Wall Street and establishment types (which everyone with a working brain knew he was going to do), even if he leads an effort to privatize Social Security and Medicare, and even if he takes away Medicaid from a lot of people. His supporters, for the most part, will either blame Democrats or just ignore those things. Same with not destroying ISIS, not withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal, not withdrawing from the Paris Agreement, etc.

The one deal-breaker would be if he made a reversal on civil rights (support of Black Lives Matter, support of LGBTQ rights, kicking out the likes of Bannon, etc.). That's the one thing Trump (and Republicans as a whole) simply cannot afford to do and won't do, because the Republican Party would collapse. Bigotry, particularly racism, is the tie that binds.

[Grey Lemercier]

19. this, it's a toxic stew of fundie xianism, undergirded with racism, homophobia, and misogyny