2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFor all looking to cast out the ignorant with the venal
A huge swath of voters know ONLY what they are told by their usual media source and by what they are told by us (their politically active friends and those actively involved in political campaigns).
When Trump says Spanish-speaking undocumented aliens bring disease and crime, the only way they know otherwise is IF SOMEONE TELLS THEM. We know what the MSM is worth, so did WE as Democrats get out there and talk about AVERAGE Spanish-speaking undocumented aliens (you know, the millions that are living hand to mouth in sub-human conditions and getting paid sub-human wages so their kids will not starve) that voters see in the media every f'n day, OR did we talk about the exceptions, the ones that fit the white suburbanite definition of successful, the class presidents, the ones shared the suburbanite dream of going to college? Is it the voters' fault for failing to see the value in the lives of the immigrants who struggle and do not meet OUR DEFINITION of success?
When Trump says that Muslims don't share our beliefs and pose a danger to our way of life, the only way they know otherwise is IF SOMEONE TELLS THEM. Did we as Democrats get out there and talk about Islam as one of the worlds great religions, or show the devotion of Muslims going to pray multiple times a day, or about how Islam has been victimized by the West since the end of the first world war, or how every day Muslims are struggling against hate and prejudice every single day OR did we talk about the exception, the Gold Star family, the ones living out the suburbanite values of patriotism? Is it the voters' fault they can't see the same value in the poor, and yes, sometime angry, young Muslim in Minneapolis as he follows a religion which we consistently attack for its failure to live up to Western values and come to the conclusion that Trump might have a point?
How about those black kids who weren't class president, or innocent bystanders? When Trump talked to voters about the murder rate in Chicago, or "supporting the police," and how we need MORE law enforcement and HARSHER penalties, did we get out and talk about WHY so many of those people who look like me find ourselves at the wrong end of a gun? Did we talk about the Michael Browns who are constantly getting shook down by cops just looking for an excuse to haul them off to jail or shoot them dead in the street? How about the ones who live without hope, the ones whose lives were ruined with felony convictions by the time they were teenagers? Did we as Democrats get out and talk about them OR did we limit our discussion to how our heroes, the ones that even suburbanites will applaud and identify with, still suffer discrimination? Is it the voters' fault they latch onto "tough on crime" and "broken society" rhetoric when every day the MSM is talking about the Chicago murder rate?
Even when the conversation turned to misogyny (which seemed to be the focus of most of the post-election campaign), did we talk about what every woman faces every day, or did we talk about Trump's disgusting behavior all the time unable to explain why we don't find every person with a history of sexual aggression unqualified to be president? Is it the voters' fault they can't distinguish Trump from the multitude of men who have run for president and won despite histories of sexual aggression, discrimination, and disrespect?
There are a ton of Trump voters who are just flat out morally decrepit. I join in saying that I want nothing to do with them. However, to shun voters for voting out of ignorance when we failed to educate them, is simply hiding our own failures. It's like the parent who shuns the child they raised.
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars . . .
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Pholus
(4,062 posts)
Squinch
(52,594 posts)that a vote for Trump is proof of bigotry and sexism and we are unlikely to get any of them to vote Democratic in the future and we should not waste the effort, and rather we should try to appeal to those who stayed home.
But the thing is that the way YOU would go about convincing the Trump voter and the way I would go about convincing the voter that stayed home are probably THE SAME THING. So why don't we put aside this argument, for which there can be no winner, and unite on figuring out the methods that will get us somewhere?
Here's my suggestion: We won't get them via TV and we won't get them via radio. So use billboards on well-traveled highways in the states where we were surprised by a Trump win. Change the message every month. Say things like, "The Republicans you voted are taking away your Medicare. Now what do you think of them?"
"You voted for Republicans who defunded Planned Parenthood and caused a ___% rise in maternal and infant deaths in your area. Now what do you think of them?"
"The Republicans you voted for are taking away your health insurance and leaving you with nothing. Now what do you think of them?"
"Depend on Social Security? The Republicans you voted for are taking it away from you. Now what do you think of them?"
"Depend on Medicaid? The Republicans you voted for are taking it away from you. Now what do you think of them?"
"Remember when the Republicans promised you a job? They just took XX jobs away from this area by XX action. Now what do you think of them?"
What is your suggestion?
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Squinch
(52,594 posts)support Democrats?
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Health care for all free at the point of service,a stronger safety net,green energy jobs everywhere.
Stuff like that.
Squinch
(52,594 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Universal early childhood education, expansion of health insurance with a reduction in premiums, 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave, generating "enough renewable energy to power every home in America, with half a billion solar panels installed by the end of Hillary’s first term," a substantial increase to the federal minimum wage, equal pay for women, debt-free and more affordable college, free community college, "a $25 billion fund will support historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic-serving institutions, and other minority-serving institutions," the development of new green industries/jobs, massive infrastructure investment, etc., etc., etc.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)The policy positions from the website were TERRIFIC. The platform was TERRIFIC. What we stand for as a party is infinitely better than the GOP.
It's too bad that both Hillary's speeches and her talking heads spent their time on two subjects, the Comey letter and Trump's sexual predation instead of what we stand for.
mcar
(43,451 posts)Focus on those two subjects. She always, always talked about the issues mentioned above.
In fact, I don't think she ever mentioned Comey in a speech.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)See here: https://extranewsfeed.com/4-completely-wrong-post-election-things-democrats-are-fighting-about-92f0a4540c27#.4e7nol5cg
When you look at those numbers, it makes the argument that she would have won if only she talked about jobs look pretty silly.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)And stop this naval gazing and get active talking about ways to stop that psychopath . . . but the question of whether Hillary emphasized social or economic issues isn't really the issue. After the primaries were over, she barely talked about social issues. Your link does not surprise me at all.
It doesn't matter now. We need to join together and find ways to stop that POS.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...because they've bought into false narratives. And then they spread those false narratives, which has a snowballing effect. As a result, DU is piled high with giant snowballs of nonsense. It's bad enough that Trump supporters subscribe to patently false beliefs.
We've got people insisting that only a fraction of Trump's supporters are bigots, yet numerous surveys make clear that a vast majority (80+ percent) of Trump supporters either believe Obama is a foreign-born Muslim or are unsure. Racism, folks, lies at the root of that.
And people insisting Clinton didn't talk much about economics when the data disproves that. Some have even said she spoke more about "transgender bathrooms." Who, among those that paid any attention at all to the campaign, could honestly believe that?
And people who refuse to acknowledge that Clinton won among the working class (a portion of *white* working class people have different priorities than the working class as a whole, and it's not hard to determine why).
Democratic Party officials really need to start emphasizing the importance of media literacy and critical thinking. Hammer that home every time they're on Meet the Press or similar shows. Most Trump supporters will never return from the alternate reality in which they exist, but it's not too late to save America's youth. Idiocracy was a movie, but we're on the verge of turning it into a documentary.
Also, long overdue is a full-throated effort to combat the "liberal media" narrative. The media is obsessed with spectacle, while promoting false equivalencies in the name of "balance." And some members of the media have the audacity to say it's not their job to fact-check. The airwaves belong to all of us. They are part of the commons. We should demand that they not be abused.
JHan
(10,173 posts)False narratives don't help.
I'm tired of it, and it matters beecause if we want to "rebuild" the party, we have to know what we got wrong and what we got right.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)You literally have to be incompetent to accuse Hillary of playing identify politics during the GE.
As for the 80%, fuck them.
Squinch
(52,594 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)damn right it is and people are helped by it.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and I would be pleased to accept whatever Democratic spite-votes either education or TrumpFail can win us.
Squinch
(52,594 posts)I'm not on Twitter, and don't even know how it works, but my hope is that every time he tweets some nonsense, there are 10,000 people responding to him with proof of how his tweet is a lie. Every Democrat who is on Twitter should be recruited into this effort and overwhelm every single lie he tells. There should be people whose job it is to research and debunk what he says, place the debunking information on an internet site where people can see it and then tweet back to him what a bullshit artist he is, with proof.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)despite being presented with the facts. That's been shown time and again.
It's rather paternalistic to think that "we" can educate them. "If only they knew," we tell ourselves; "If only the Democratic Party had a better message." All the information regarding the excessive use of force with respect to black citizens has been out there and discussed profusely all year. Yes, even in the mainstream media, time and again, with video to prove it, and sophisticated speakers explaining the issues.
Another thing that has been demonstrated repeatedly by studies is that a vast number of voters do not make their choices on a rational basis. And that means they are not susceptible to arguments—even the best arguments out there. Sometimes it's just a question of whose hairdo they like, or that their wife just left them, or that their kid is doing poorly in school and they want to lash out at something. They are not making nuanced or informed decisions based on a coherent political philosophy. They may even believe in one set of ideals or proposals and vote for someone who professes the complete opposite. Note the documented desire for "change" that was expressed by voters this year. They didn't care whether it was good change or bad; they just thought something different might be the answer after eight years of their kids bringing home papers with "D" marked on them. Really. (I've canvassed door to door many times over the years, and I can tell you that this is frequently the twisted logic that more than a few people at whose doorsteps I've stopped have expressed.)
No, we are not going to convince anyone of anything. And once we realize that, we can stop trying to change other people and start the hard work of changing things in the real world we can control, where we live. We won't win every battle (or even most), but we can keep fighting it, with our compadres who share our views.
In saying this, I fully recognized that you probably won't be influenced by my arguments.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)made easy for them. Why assist them in making up their minds irrationally by making them the bad guys and putting them on the defensive? I prefer to show them how they are being duped, rather than to focus on how they are low-lifes, because people really do intend to be good. Their version of that is almost entirely a product of social evolution and engineering, and it can be altered.
By referendum, California voted to ban gay marriage back in 2008, most likely because we're a state full of irredeemable monsters....
but then, according to the graph in the article below
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/03/26/how-proposition-8-passed-in-california-and-why-it-wouldnt-today/?utm_term=.857a5860fe91
support of gay marriage shifted from 44% in 2008 to 50% in 2010 to 54% in 2012. That has to mean something to you.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Many (including some DU posters) have created an alternate reality from which there's no return.
There's ignorance and then there's willful ignorance.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)They want to be SCHOOLED.
I promise you this.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)No such thing as a low information voter?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)or truth or facts for that matter.
They don't want to THINK.
They want to be TOLD.
They want to say, "Ditto".
And that's why they *do*. Because someone told them not to worry, just say "ditto"
The exact same reason that would NEVER work on you or me is why the approach is successful. They want to be TOLD, and then complimented when they "ditto".
I wish this weren't the case, but it is.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)That a huge swath of voters "want to be told" what to do, should we not be telling them?
From this point forward, we should not hesitate to tell the ignorant exactly what to do.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)They believe what they want to believe and facts don't penetrate--they backfire. See post #12.