How many votes for Trump were more of a vote *FOR* Clinton?

[LaydeeBug]

Because by now, we know how those motherfuckers did this.

And we know they stole this from her.

[scscholar]

1. What?

How is a vote for rump a vote for Clinton?

[LaydeeBug]

2. How many got switched.

We now know there was interference.

[Chernobyl]

4. If there was proof of our actual voting machines or voting system was hacked in any way

all hell would break loose. If you've got details, please feel free to share with the rest of the class. As of now nobody has indicated that took place.

[dflprincess]

5. And no one will ever admit the machines have been tampered with.

No one has ever admitted that Florida was stolen with the help of rigged machines in 2000.

And it does seem just a tad odd that Hillary lost the "too close to call" areas where there was no paper backup.

I have no doubt this one of those things the PTB are being quiet about "for the good of the country". Because in the U.S. it is far more important to pretend we have free and fair elections than to actually have free and fair elections.

[Chernobyl]

6. When you say things like this you disrespect every Dem poll watcher and election

judge in this country who spends countless hours making sure that our elections are fair and not rigged.

[dflprincess]

7. How does a poll watcher or election judge know that a paperless machine has not been hacked

or programmed to "miscount" votes?

[pnwmom]

24. Poll watchers and election judges can't determine whether the option

for cellular connectivity in the optical scanners used by half the states was taken advantage of by the hackers.

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/291179/investigators-find-security-flaws-in-wisconsin-vot.html

[LanternWaste]

32. You place great faith in humanity's inerrant and unfailing ability

You place great faith in humanity's inerrant and unfailing ability to be both inerrant and unfailing.

[kenfrequed]

34. That is emotionalist

And it is contradicted by tons of studies by university computer and security experts.

The fact of the matter is that the election probably was tampered with by the GOP as usual. Diebold just changed it's name. They still service those same flawed machines, particularly in the south.

John Conyers actually held a committee about what happened in Ohio in 2004 and there was significant evidence of the Republicans engaging in voter suppression, questionable voting machines, limiting access, and knocking people off the rolls.

But we never go after the Republicans for any of this because the Democratic party is desperately afraid of being labeled as conspiracy nuts or as sore losers.

Greg Palast did an excellent job both in reviewing the 2000 election and the 2016 election. Crosscheck was the new and improved version of Choicepoint. What is past is prologue in this case I suppose. The voter rolls were purged of people that had names that sounded vaguely black or ethnic. The mainstream press and the mainstream Democrats were utterly silent.

The media seems to only be fixated on Russia for some stupid reason when the real threat was there all along. Palast covered Crosscheck months ago, hell years ago he pointed out this kind of thing and we did nothing. The criminals of voter suppression have always been republicans and this time around is no exception.

[ElementaryPenguin]

8. You are CORRECT! The first electronic hack occured in 2000 - Volusia County, FL

The infamous "Hursti Hack" (but no so famous that the mainstream media feels compelled to ever mention it)

Of course, now we're venturing towards those darned "CONSPIRACY THEORIES" - AKA the easiest way to invalidate a valid accusation!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volusia_error

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hursti_Hack

[triron]

18. Well put!

[guillaumeb]

30. One of those myths that cannot be challenged. Well said. eom

[mythology]

15. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer to that

The sort of inane conspiracy nonsense never has any evidence. They can't explain how Michigan with paper ballots demographically matched other states. They can't explain how Wisconsin with the chair and vice chair of the election commission being Democrats also participated in the conspiracy. They can't explain how such a thing manages to stay quiet.

It's a lot like those who deny climate change, evolution and the moon landing. The evidence being against them is just part of the conspiracy.

[triron]

16. Who is this "nobody" you are referring to?

There is enough evidence to convince me.
Maybe not you.

[Chernobyl]

19. I said nobody has indicated that Russia (or anyone else for that matter) in any way

hacked into our election system, altered votes, changed vote tallies or anything like that. If you've got evidence that anyone, including Russia did anything like that I would personally love to see it because that sure would make all of this a lot easier. The cold hard truth is that people voted for Trump, whether they did so from an educated point of view or not is in question. There's been no evidence whatsoever released that shows or even hints around that the election was actually "hacked".

At this point the only thing that's been insinuated is that Russia "infiltrated" our election by stealing and publishing emails from the DNC and John Podesta and/or they put out fake news stories that duped people into voting for Trump. Until we all realize what actually took place we'll never make any progress in fixing what took place. On a national level we were beaten badly, on a state level we didn't make up enough ground to make a difference this time around and 2018 is going to be even more difficult based on who is up for election and which states they're in.

If we intend on regaining power in any way we need to stop crying about Russians hiding in our closets and voting booths and start worrying about getting more people to vote for Democrats.

[triron]

20. An analysis (by Ron Baiman, Ph. D.) of the exit poll data vs

the reported vote show an incredible likelihood that votes (that people thought they cast for Clinton) either did not get counted or were switched to Trump. The odds were astronomical that this happened. Then cyber experts also urged the Clinton campaign to ask for recounts in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania because they noticed peculiar behavior of the relative vote tabulations in precincts where vote machines were used vs not. I will not go into detail about the obstacles that were thrown up against fair recounts in those states. There were findings of possible cellular connectivity in tabulation machines.
Then there were numerous other incongruities such as pre-election polling, pre-election betting predictions, DU going down Nov 8, Rudy Giuliani telling Fox news 2 weeks before the election that 'they' had a few things up their sleeves.
I'm sure I missed a few.

[uppityperson]

25. What are your thoughts on Trump being blackmailed by Russia because of pee video?

[uppityperson]

31. No, you've got that wrong

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/11/trump-russia-report-opposition-research-john-mccain

[synergie]

22. I guess that's why the GOP is so eager to prevent any actual investigation into the machines?

Actually, people have been wondering, especially when the machines in Detroit and certain counties in WI were not investigated.

Shall the class explain to you that when you are denied an investigation, that it's a bit difficult to come up with details?

[AgadorSparticus]

3. I'm sure if you opened up those voting machines you'll find the algorithm

They used.

[scscholar]

9. Is incrementing by one really an algorithm?

[AgadorSparticus]

21. Yes. Not every vote will be counted the same. So not every x vote will y vote.

For example, every 5 votes for x we count only 4 and for every 5 votes for y, we add 1. So, it is not a matter of just adding 1. It could be, though. But who knows? Do you?

[True_Blue]

10. Great question!

And I wonder if any illegal Russian immigrants "poured across the border" to vote for Trump?

[LaydeeBug]

11. While I appreciate your attempt to marginalize the issue

None were needed to pour across the border if they could just tweak a couple counties.

But please proceed.

[True_Blue]

12. I agree with you

I'm not marginalizing this issue. I actually agree with you and always appreciate your threads. But everything Trump has said so far has been pure projection, so his statement "Mexicans pouring across the border" is just something that keeps troubling me.

I think there many ways they stole the election like flipping votes, voter supression, disenfranchisement...etc.

[LaydeeBug]

13. That's how he got them to believe it

That...and the media reporting it as a fact.

[True_Blue]

14. True

I suspect much of our MSM has been infiltrated by Putin as well.

[triron]

17. Some flipping of votes may have indeed occurred but that probably

wasn't needed with other forms of disenfranchisement (including voter suppression).

[LisaM]

26. And shutting down polling sites.

It has become much harder to vote in places like Milwaukee and Detroit. In fact, in Detroit, they were begging for new equipment that the state wouldn't provide.

[mtnsnake]

23. Starting rumors for the sake of spreading fake news is not productive

We know that the Russians interfered with the election by hacking into DNC emails and releasing those emails that would be embarrassing for our campaign and cost us votes. However, no one but you and a few other conspiracy theorists has any proof that the voting machines were tampered with or hacked into to "switch" votes, even though you insist here and in other threads that this was done and you even "know how those motherfuckers did this."

It's one thing to speculate that they hacked into the machines, but it's another to say you know how they did it when you don't. The significance would be monumental if you really do know how they did it because the outcome of the election would at least be nullified, if not reversed.

So, if you "know how those motherfuckers did this," how about enlightening everyone including the CIA, and tell us exactly "how" they did it, along with the information you have that proves it so we can get the election overturned.

[Hoyt]

27. +1. Just saw Elliot Richardson. He said we had to quit talking about allegations as fact.

It would take quiet an effort to hack voting machines around the country, and someone would squeal or leave a trail.

I really think we are looking like Birther GOPers with some of the accusations recently. If the accusations pan out, great. But most of this stuff evaporates within a few days and we move on to the next conspiracy theory. And I don't care if GOPers did it. I have no desire to be like a GOPer.

[triron]

33. I see some of them

are still trying to "frame the narrative", Laydeebug.

[triron]

35. many tens of thousands of Clinton votes just weren't count