They did DOWN BALLOT shit too...and YES I mean voting machines

[LaydeeBug]

As the trickle, trickle, trickle comes out, *slowly* but surely, is there any more doubt what happened here?

Not *ONLY* do I think they rigged elections...and I *am* going *there*...that they pulled some shit with our equipment...YEP...*there*...because research has shown that it wouldn't need to be all that big an operation *AND* considering they would have had help from one of our political parties...yep.

I also think they hacked DU.

To the R S T L N E ers:

I know, I know, I know. There is no possible way *any* of our machines *anywhere* could be hacked. It would take thousands upon millions of people to do it, and they would have to do it in the plain light of day, and there aren't enough hours in that day to accomplish what I am saying. Someone here voted in Michigan, and they can tell you firsthand that no machines were hacked...and some places even had monitors from both parties there as witnesses. Nothing could *possibly* be hacked, mkay? Why isn't Hillary saying it was hacked? Why didn't Obama? ***YAWN*** trickle, trickle, trickle. Drip, drip, drip.

DU just isn't BIG ENOUGH, or important enough for any Russians/KGOPB to waste their precious time on. Oh, but *even* suggesting that they finagled voting machines UNDERMINES OUR ENTIRE REPUBLIC, because we are DU and people come here for their news (aside: try to have it both ways much?)

I will not play politics while they play war.

That shit has gone on long enough.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. ALCOA!

[LaydeeBug]

2. Head in the sand much?

Aaaaahhh...THERE you are...like usual.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

20. Not at all, I just tend not to jump to conclusions

when there's no evidence to support my assertions. YMMV

[LaydeeBug]

27. Oh, you are certainly jumping to conclusions...

but then again...that won't stop you.

Thanks for the kick though. Appreciate it.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

29. PWD? nt

[LaydeeBug]

40. Another kick?? Why THANKS AGAIN!

[dionysus]

43. The projection is astounding, isn't it?

[LaydeeBug]

44. It *absolutely* IS

[dionysus]

47. Where's reel 2?

[LaydeeBug]

56. with the infallable never can be hacked voting machines, bless your heart

[Dr Hobbitstein]

53. Indeed. Where have I seen projection like that before? nt

[LaydeeBug]

55. Where indeed

Post #136 Right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8458577

[Fast Walker 52]

3. I am open to this possibility, but the problem is there's no hard evidence for this

and no expert I've seen thinks this is what happened.

The great thing about the GOP is they have many ways of fucking with elections. I think vote suppression played a huge role myself.

[brush]

4. They cheat and will always cheat. We outnumber them so that's the only way they can "win"

[Fast Walker 52]

5. I know, and they control the fucking media too

[Dr Hobbitstein]

7. And that, in a nutshell is how they won.

Voter suppression and media manipulation. Add in some Russian collusion, and you've got a recipe for a Trump presidency.

No tampering with the vote. Why bother when you can manipulate the people via the media while blocking "undesirables" from voting?

[Fast Walker 52]

14. I think our number 1 goal has to be to get control of the media

but I don't see enough being done on this. We're just propping up the same evil and stupid corporate media that helped Trump.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

16. Indeed.

I'd like to see a return of actual investigative journalism. Not news reports on some asshole's Twitter feed or cute cat videos on YouTube (I'm looking at you CNN).

[Fast Walker 52]

19. yeah... that takes real money and patience

hopefully they can up their game for Trump

[LaydeeBug]

41. prove it.

[melman]

49. Prove it?

When people say that to you, you call them 'proofers'.

[LaydeeBug]

54. Just dishing what I'm served.

And I *promise* that will keep happening.

I speak my mind and shit

[LaydeeBug]

9. Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think they JUST tampered with machines...

But I have worked elections since 1986, and I know damn well that they CAN.

This was a coordinated effort involving all of those things.

[forjusticethunders]

25. It's actually the same as the Trump strategy

Be SO offensive, so deplorable, so awful, so incompetent on so many fronts that it's impossible to defend against coherently.

It's basically political Deep Operations.

[LaydeeBug]

28. Yep. And pretending one thing is 'off the table' or 'impossible' is head in the sand folly. nt

[forjusticethunders]

35. I'm not 100% there was direct hacking of machines

But I'm not at all convinced there wasn't. The thing is that even if they tried and failed to hack the election, or didn't make enough of an effort, it still creates another front to defend. You have to defend against Russian interference, fake news, the awful shit Trump is actually doing, CrossCheck his appointments, his thuggish supporters attacking people, etc etc.

Also you don't have to change a single actual vote. Just make sure enough of them don't work, like in Detroit. The uncertainty to the method is another front to defend, because you don't know *what* actually happened.

[LaydeeBug]

59. Honestly, that's where I am, but because I have worked a LOT of elections

I *know* they can be hacked, and pretending they are infallible, that it couldn't happen...that it didn't happen, is putting your head in the sand.

And pretending that even *mentioning* this somehow subverts future votes is FUCKING JOKE, considering how much them actually DOING this does.

It's funny how when the exit polls don't jive, it is always the KGOPB candidate that benefits.

[TheDebbieDee]

10. Several math whizzes advised Sec Clinton

To ask for recounts in a few states because the vote tallies were out if whack! This was around the same time that Jill Stein was raising funds to finance recounts...

[LaydeeBug]

12. It was all so dizzying...we weren't expecting espionage. nt

[uponit7771]

61. +1, now I think the Stein recount was a blocking move to keep HRC from doing such after all

... the Russia info came out I don't trust Stein no further I can throw her with a broke arm

[uponit7771]

60. The hard evidence is they hacked state and local electoral boards were the machines are set...

... if that's not hard enough evidence I don't know what is

[Fast Walker 52]

63. and that evidence is where?

is there any evidence the machines were hacked?

[uponit7771]

66. That's were the machines are set, they don't have to hack individual machines when they can hack

... were the individual machines are set.

Either way, its not a rational thought to believe they hacked into the state and local electoral boards ... looked at the data and then said "fuck it, lets leave this here"...

Not believing that for a second

[mopinko]

6. maybe this is what cummings was talking about.

i do disagree w the idea that we are not big enough. we are.
we have sprouted dozens of hater sites. they are surely inhabited by real trolls.

but the numbers are just tooooo fishy. 70k votes in 3 states? piece of cake.

[LaydeeBug]

13. That's my point. If you've worked elections before...

if there are some GOPers that thought they were serving their country, or just needed some cash...it is even silly to suggest it couldn't happen.

But here we are...

[mopinko]

15. i have worked elections. it would be so fucking easy.

here 2 judges have to deliver the materials. soooo easy for them to take a short detour on the way to the collection points.

here you transmit the results as a part of the close out. i have no idea how widespread that is. and even w that check, how likely is it that any given precinct would be cross checked? it should be automatic, but it aint.

i've attended audits, too. those little "oops" result get papered over quickly.

[LaydeeBug]

30. Yep. And to act like it is out of the question, or that we have to provide THEM

with hard evidence is pissing in the wind.

It is not ONLY conceivable that they did this, it is inconceivable to ignore the possibility.

Fuck that, and the horse it rode it on

[uponit7771]

62. +1, and all states that enacted VSM to lower counts in "urban" areas... those fuckers

[BlueCaliDem]

8. I agree with you. The complacency and the refusal to even consider that our machines had been

hacked in favor of Republicans and tRump, tells me what a bunch of obedient sheeple too many have become. This is what the GOP and other anti-American, anti-democratic groups are banking on: American disbelief and fear of "rocking the boat". It's why they WIN. As they say, the lie travels halfway around the world before the truth catches up, right?

The ONLY people in the world who disses conspiracy theories are Americans in the United States. ALL OTHER democracies actually believe: where there's smoke, there's got to be fire, and that it's something that needs to be looked deeper into until such time hard evidence shows otherwise.

Here? You get a 'meh' from so-called Liberals who believe that conspiracy theories are synonymous with fairy tales - when time and time again, decades later, these original "conspiracy theories" get the hard evidence and is immediately brushed under the rug. Then again, by that time, the damage has already been done.

Thank you for keeping up the fight, LaydeeBug. YOU are a true American patriot in heart and soul.

[LaydeeBug]

11. THANK YOU FOR THIS.

You made my day.

Really.

[BlueCaliDem]

17. No need to thank me. I thank YOU. Fighters should be admired, not excoriated.

You are a fighter and a true American patriot, and it needs to be said more around here.

I've been reading your posts for some time and they are filled with the food-for-thought we ALL should listen to and research, not dismiss right off bat. I don't understand why not more people are praising you for your courage to ask the hard questions. Well, I for one, do.

Thank you for keeping up the fight, LaydeeBug.

[LaydeeBug]

45. Holy WOW! Just read this. Thank you for you

and thanks again.

[2naSalit]

18. THIS

[LisaM]

33. Just mucking with them so they didn't work would be enough.

How many complaints were there about equipment in Detroit? You can hack without changing the votes. Break enough machines, make the lines long enough - voila, discouraged voters. And it doesn't take that many.

I'm not ruling out anything at this point. There are too many people upset at the outcome of the election to make me think that this is by any means the will of the people.

I know there are many suppression tactics, and frankly, the GOP doesn't mind employing them all.

[uponit7771]

64. +1, exactly... they didn't need a huge operation just a "big enough" operation to hide

[LaydeeBug]

69. This, this, this...why they are so positive nothing happened is astounding. nt

[triron]

34. Never get tired of posting this:

http://www.cpegonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Unexplained-Patterns-in-2016-and-Earlier-U.S.-Elections.pdf

His analysis showed extremely improbable event happened on election night
(like less than 1 in 13000).

[BlueCaliDem]

39. If his analysis brings you comfort that our way of voting is pretty much flawless, then I'm happy

for you.

We'll know in about a decade, maybe more, if that analysis is correct or flawed, won't we?

[triron]

57. You're kidding me?

I meant just about the direct opposite of what you insinuated.

[Lurks Often]

21. So why aren't President Obama, VP Biden, Pelosi, Schumer and other prominent Democrats

speaking out?

[m-lekktor]

22. That is exactly what I have been wondering since the story of the big russian conspiracy broke

and which makes me hesitant to get behind these CIA planted talking points. You'd think the powers that be would be more up in arms about things!

[Lurks Often]

23. Or this isn't nearly as much there as some would like you to believe

[dionysus]

46. They're all in on it!

[Lurks Often]

48. Damn Straight!

[kenfrequed]

24. Republicans

Why the hell are we pretending that Russia fielded agents all over America at every district to make Republicans win, when republicans tend to just do this on their own EVERY FRIGGING ELECTION YEAR!

Have Democrats lost their minds?

I'm serious, I have ranted and raved about hackable voting machines and lack of a paper-trail for years (ever since reading The Best Democracy Money Can Buy).

Did any of you read John Conyers report from 2005 (about the 2004 election) regarding what occurred in Ohio?

And despite plenty of evidence that the GOP was planning on swiping this thing (Crosscheck anyone?) a large number of Democrats have decided to make this all about Russia when there has been absolutely no evidence of them doing anything more than maybe releasing emails.

A new Red Scare only exists to force us into spending more on Defense and intelligence to prove our loyalty and drive up deficits which will be paid for in cuts to health and human services. The blowback to this is going to be intensely stupid and self injurious, particularly to progressives who will get edged out by Democrats that are Hawkish on Russia.

[LaydeeBug]

31. Nope. I think it was coordinated...and you're right, the GOP pulled this shit in Ohion 2004

with Ken Blackwell aiding them...and this time around, they had aid from Russia, in addition to their already well placed minions.

I am saying this election was hacked though. Down ballot too.

[kenfrequed]

36. There is just no evidence for it

The republicans never needed that much coordination to pull it off. They have been doing it for decades.

Employ Occams razor on this thing.

They didn't need Russia's help with any of this so what functional role would Russian support have been?

[hamsterjill]

26. As I've said before, SOMETHING happened on election day.

I don't pretend to be savvy enough to know what the hell the Russians, the Trump camp and/or others did, but I know in my gut that SOMETHING happened. I will go to my grave thinking this because I live and work around all Republicans. Even THEY were insistent that Hillary was going to win. Even THEY saw what a dumbass, inept jackass Donald Trump was.

I can't wait for the first time that Hillary speaks out.

[LaydeeBug]

32. exactly. This.

except I am not waiting for Hillary to speak out. What happened to her was unspeakable.

[hamsterjill]

38. It was unspeakable.

But the Clintons still have some power and respect globally, and it is my hope that will be a benefit for Hillary to know what exactly happened. You know she will ultimately be asked, and you know she will answer. Her answer will be very interesting to me.

[ElementaryPenguin]

37. Yes, LB!! After all of Putin's efforts - Hillary still led in all the polls on election eve...

So, are you telling me Putin would've been content to have finished a closer than previously expected 2nd? (with a $1/2 trillion deal with Exxon on the line).

Sure.

As Trump said himself in Wisconsin (during his victory lap) that he was losing "bigly" in the exit polls - and explained to his wife that he had lost - and he was going to be embarrassed to see the vote tallies coming in - and what was he going to do career-wise.

But what happens? The margin of error is exceeded always in Trump's favor - in 23 of the 25 states contested states with exit polls (the same odds as flipping heads 23 times in 25 flips!!

Would Obama have become the 1st President in history to use the "hot-line" to contact a Russian leader and warn Putin that he wouldn't rule out even a military response if he hacked the election results?? Do you think he would've done that - risk WWIII - even hadn't believed Russia had the ability to hack the vote totals? Would he have done that simply to ward off another Hillary email dump??

Princeton Univ. was asked if the Russians could do this and they said it would child's play for them. The vote tabulators were found to be ultimately connected online (contrary to what Comey said) and the also had cellular connectivity.

The Russians have said they were in contact with the Trump camp throughout - they could have easily indicated which counties and precincts needed to be hacked. And the down ballots were crucial too to maintain control the Senate, which they were likely to lose.

Again, in time, this will leak out. It isn't information the Obama administration was going to be able to just dump on the public and expect everyone to accept - and with our recount system - there wasn't enough time to walk it back - we were basically stuck with this - and the story had to be limited to the obvious intentional hacking of the election the Russians were doing to influence the election and assist Trump. The investigations have been started - and many will be surprised to see that that dossier on Trump is far from the only thing Putin has hanging over his head. He has the collusion of him and his team with the Russians - the most hostile foreign power their is - to steal the Presidential power. TREASON. You can just imagine what sentence a conviction in these circumstances might bring. The name Benedict Arnold would probably be displaced and forgotten in American History overnight.

[dionysus]

42. No proof, combined with no proper punctuation, does not prove election fraud.

Rather than admit our candidate had real flaws, you claim fraid, with absolutely zero proof.

It's a good way to feel about yourself, but it's a recipe for continued losses.

According to some here we win 100% of elections, tjey were just all stolen.

It's a shortcut for thinking.

[justburnitall]

52. .

Whatever! You know the only way Drumpf won the election was due to cheating!! Nobody liked him, just small town inbreds who barely vote anyways.

All I saw around here was Hil signs and stickers.....even people who didn't feel she was the greatest candidate still were ready to vote in the election to keep tangerine man out.

[LaydeeBug]

58. Your insistence that there is no proof flies in the face of the news...

And not addressing the coordinated effort that was launched upon us ALLOWS them to do it over and over again.

They've been saying the media is liberal for so long that our populace actually believes it, and they're conservative.

You can put your head in the sand all you want.

This was HACKED, STUFFED, CHEATED, STOLEN, and you can't prove it wasn't.

[uponit7771]

65. The report says they hacked state and local electoral boards, if that's not "proof" enough then ...

... nothing will be.

I'm not going to believe they hacked those boards, looked at the data and said fuck it... lets just go somewhere else.

That's not rational conclusion relative to the other data regarding hacking

[ElementaryPenguin]

67. The mere fact that one is SLOW to connect the dots -

DOES NOT DISPROVE ANYTHING!! (Nor does a lack of appreciation for unorthodox punctuation!.!.!.!.!.!)

[JTFrog]

68. Rude. nt

[ucrdem]

50. Not a doubt in my mind.

How it happens that candidates quick to claim the system is rigged fall silent on this point I can't explain.

[fleabiscuit]

51. Got your back jack... K&R