This is what propaganda is, people. Pictures of Hillary everywhere, being declared the winner.

[reformist2]

When she did nothing to deserve such praise whatsoever. She was attacked from all sides, and barely could defend herself.

Her vote on the Iraq War was brought up half a dozen times, and she didn't even try to explain it. Among Dems, that is a massive fail.

[Drunken Irishman]

1. Or people think she won.

[reformist2]

2. At this point, there is zero evidence of that. So the headlines we're seeing are absurd.

[Cheese Sandwich]

8. That's because they're not trying to report public reaction. They're trying to shape it.

It's spin. Or as you say, propaganda. It's not absurd at all. When you consider the goal, these are very rational headlines.

[TheBlackAdder]

76. X2 - Establishment outlets favor establishment candidates. Progressive outlets are more liberal. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

51. lol

Okay. You keep telling yourself that.

[pnwmom]

41. +1. n/t

[JRLeft]

3. The media tried this shit in 07 and 08. They failed.

[tblue37]

4. But they did succeed with Baby Bush, convincing people that Gore and Kerry

lost debates to him when in fact he was a disaster.

[HooptieWagon]

5. Could be why they're losing viewership and subscribers.

M$M has become a joke. There's no journalism, there's no integrity. That's become quite evident.

[CoffeeCat]

6. I saw this...

I scanned the headlines on CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC. Most of them looked like they were written by a PR firm representing Hillary.

It is pathetic.

Yes, we get it--Hillary is the darling of the corporate-owned media and they will work tirelessly to see that she is crowned the winner and that Bernie is defeated.

I also noticed that, for the first time I can remember, these major media outlets didn't do any scientific polling. Gee, I wonder why that is? Because Sanders would have won. They don't want to show that. They want to hide what the American people really want and think--so they can tout their corporate-friendly candidate Hillary and her big, overwhelming win.

And people wonder why we don't like her?! She's corporate America in a pantsuit!

[aikanae]

29. Healines are written by pr firms.

That's nothing new. Go look up releases on Clinton's website and you'll probably find a lot of content reworded slightly. The canidate issuing the first release to the best email addresses, wins the headline race. Of course Clinton would have the best since she's been in high level positions.

The truth is who has staying power 3 days or a week later. I think Sander's response to his "socialism" is going to cause a lot of buzz, which is good. Traditional Democrats have never been good at turning controversy into opportunity, which is what I suspect Sander's just did. We shall see.

[jfern]

7. But but but she's an outsider because she's a woman

[MissDeeds]

9. Not one poll has shown her ahead

I've been all over the internet this evening and have yet to find one site that shows her ahead when it comes to post debate polling. Not one. Bernie is ahead by huge margins. Seriously, how can these blatant lies show up on numerous sites?

[Fearless]

15. Be careful though, those polls aren't "scientific"

(The new meme out of the Hillary camp.)

[leftynyc]

50. LOL - are you saying that

self selecting internet polls are as valid as scientific polls by polling companies? You think they're equal? Pretending it's a "scandal" to believe those that are being done with actual statistics is nothing but bullshit.

[Autumn]

52. It's all over the net, there is a big push by Sanders supporters to vote in them

much of it was coordinated or so we are supposed to believe.

[NuclearDem]

77. Statistics is a field of science, like any other.

There are methodologies and practices accepted as useful and effective in accurately reflecting opinion.

Internet polls generally don't abide by these practices. I'm sorry the polling carried out by professionals isn't giving you the results you want, but rejecting the entirety of statistical science makes you no better than a climate change denier or creationist.

[pnwmom]

42. Please show me a statistically valid post-debate poll, not self-selected,

that shows any candidate ahead.

[uponit7771]

10. Hillary has a great smile and a good profile, she deserves the coverage even though Sanders

... benefited most.

I'm heartened by both of them

[MoonchildCA]

11. I think stylistically, she did better than I've ever seen her.

She was calmer and more natural than I've seen her in the past and she did a decent job on brushing over her past voting issues, and redirecting the conversation.

On issues however, Bernie won hands down. He also won on the Internet and on the network polls. The MSM is scrambling to rewrite the results of the debate before people realize they like what Bernie had to say better.

I think, at least I hope, the democratic electorate is not as easily fooled...

[Samantha]

12. It reminds me of the first Bush/Gore debate during the 2000 Election

I watched that debate very closely. When it ended I thought, now that people had observed the essence of George W. Bush* (no depth, no presence, poor speech, empty vessel), Gore would easily win. When the results came in and moderators kept saying Bush* won, I could not believe it.

What I failed to factor into my equation was that GE DESPISED both Clinton and Gore. GE had been fined millions of dollars by the EPA for polluting the Housatonic River with hazardous material. GE targeted Gore in the race, and Russert and others were just very happy to go along.

Sam

[elleng]

13. Yes.

Thanks

[workinclasszero]

14. Hillary won big.

you should get used to it, seriously.

[Fearless]

17. Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?

[reformist2]

20. Get used to it?! Kind of like a boot with a Hillary imprint, stomping on our faces forever?

[Fumesucker]

39. That's what Kasich just said about Social Security cuts

Nice company you keep.

[workinclasszero]

16. CLINTON LEANS IN

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

[Fearless]

22. That's some unbiased reporting all right.

First three headlines are all about Hillary. Fourth is Bernie supporting Hillary. Fifth is generic, even though it's actually untrue because Webb said "all lives matter"... I could go on.

[workinclasszero]

18. Clinton crushes it

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-las-vegas-214724

[elleng]

19. Here's some:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251677359

[Fearless]

23. Funny how Slate's readers poll puts Bernie as the winner by over 50%.

Funny.

[elleng]

25. Guess they don't do intra-site communication too well.

NONE of this crap is WORTH ANYTHING!

[Fearless]

26. Well the newest meme is that the poll is wrong because it's not "scientific"

And then no one can tell me what "scientific" means.

Still trying to figure that stupidity out.

[elleng]

28. Think I'll turn it off for the night!

[Fearless]

32. Sleep well

[reformist2]

30. Yes. But then, they go and declare Hillary the winner based on only their elite personal opinion!

[Fearless]

33. And in several cases a mind boggling display of non sequitur statements.

And in others, blatant lies... as if they think people will remember that someone said something or did something at the debate and if you say it was Hillary they'll automatically believe them.

It's idiotic.

[workinclasszero]

21. Hillary Clinton Attacks Bernie Sanders Over His Gun Record

Hillary Clinton Attacks Bernie Sanders Over His Gun Record
Bern = burned.


Paige Lavender
Senior Politics Editor, The Huffington Post
Posted: 10/13/2015 09:34 PM EDT | Edited: 1 hour ago

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) tried to explain his past positions on gun control when confronted about the issue during Tuesday's Democratic primary debate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-gun-control_561dafa1e4b028dd7ea5acc6

[Fearless]

24. Except he and O'Malley were the ones that fought over it... But what are facts really?

O'Malley arguing that there isn't a difference between urban and rural and Bernie suggesting the opposite.

[Beaverhausen]

31. And Hillary and Bernie also argued about it

At least they did during the debate I watched.

[moobu2]

37. Yes. And Bernie's the one with the NRA problem too.

[donf]

45. You mean his D- rating?

Riiiiiight. Keep repeating a lie, and it will eventually become the truth.

[mhatrw]

27. There was a 100% chance that the corporate media would declare her the winner.

Just like there is a 100% chance that the corporate media will do everything in its power to vilify her personally if she wins the Democratic nomination.

Of course, the corporate media will double down on vilifying Sanders if he wins the Democratic nomination. The difference is that Sanders is comparatively clean, so it will be much harder to saddle him with a bs non-issue scandal.

This is all the corporate media knows. Protect the establishment at all costs, and NEVER. EVER discuss the actual issues facing the USA! Just gotcha crap and personality crap.

[Beaverhausen]

35. The corporate media always supports Hillary, right?

Are you really saying that?

[mhatrw]

38. Check the donations. nt

[gwheezie]

34. Hillary was strong on every issue

She was fired up and I could picture her mopping the floor in a debate with any of the GOP morons.
Bernie I think did well for himself. He's not a fringe candidate and clearly belongs in the race. Good for him.
I was pleased with both of them and just couldn't help grinning when Hillary hit her high points. She is the front runner and ready for the fight.

[EndElectoral]

53. I really suggest you go back and read the actual transcript and say she was strong on every issue.

This exchange was telling.

CHAFFEE: We have to repair American credibility after we told the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which he didn’t. So there’s an issue of American credibility out there. So any time someone is running to be our leader, and a world leader, which the American president is, credibility is an issue out there with the world. And we have repair work to be done. I think we need someone that has the best in ethical standards as our next president. That’s how I feel.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

CLINTON: No.

'''

Now, this got a laugh, but it really didn't address what Chaffee was saying which was in the context of the Iraq invasion and Clinton's War vote to approve that action. It went to the issue of credibility. And she simply said "No." I'm not going there.

If you read her responses anytime Iraq comes up it is diversion and obfuscation. How you can say she was strong on "every" issue is mind boggling to me. This is perhaps the most important issue of the last decade.

The second big issue of the last decade is the crash of 08. One of the major contributors to that crash was the dissolution of Glass-Steagall which allowed speculative investment banks and commercial banks to merge and created too big to fail situations with little to no oversight. On Glass-Steagall questions, which Sanders, O'Malley, and Elizabeth Warren favors, Clinton is adamant in her refusal to support it, saying that her plan goes further, but her plan allows for the continued practice of speculative investment banks and commercial banks to continue.

As Nobel Prize winner Josef Stiglitz said about Glass-Steagall:

"I opposed (the repeal of Glass-Steagall) very strongly. I thought there were good reasons why we had passed Glass-Steagall in the aftermath of the Great Depression. You look at the history, and it was clear that the quarter century after World War II, in which we had strong financial market regulations, is that one quarter century in the world in which there was almost no financial crises, no banking crises. It was also the period of most rapid economic growth, and it was also the period in which the inequalities in our societies were being reduced. So it was very hard to say that these regulations had stifled economic growth."

The third issue is climate change. First her 2010 statement on the Keystone pipeline: "So as I say, we've not yet signed off on it. But we are inclined to do so and we are for several reasons — going back to one of your original questions — we're either going to be dependent on dirty oil from the Gulf or dirty oil from Canada." She said very little about climate change at this debate, despite O'Malley hammering on it, and Sanders concurrence as the biggest long term issue we face.

There are so many other issues she put bandaids on without addressing the issue. Example - health care for immigrants. "I believe we should cover all immigrant children." So, essentially, if the parent of an immigrant child becomes ill who is the sole support of those children becomes ill, then you're on your own kids. Another example - Well, I'm worried about rising costs of schools and student debt. Solution - We'll let you "refinance your student loans." These are band-aids, and are not addressing the real problems immigrants face, or students face.

I really encourage you to go back and read the transcript on what she actually said.

I do give her kudos on the stylistics aspects of her debate. She has improved dramatically on the aspect of performance, but honestly, do read the transcript before stating she was strong on every issue. Quite the opposite.

[moobu2]

36. She did win the debate.

stop fooling yourself.

[billhicks76]

40. Lol. She Clearly Lost

[madokie]

44. She lost big time

75 to 18 or there abouts on most all the polls I seen

Bernie Sanders will be our next President and I'm going to be voting for him in the primary as well as the general election. I've made 4 or 5 donations so far, sorry can't remember exactly as one was returned to me because his campaign didn't have a paypal account.

[LibDemAlways]

43. Her vote on the Iraq War is inexcusable. I knew

that the Bush cabal was feeding the public a bunch of bullshit lies to justify going to war in Iraq, a war they had been plotting and chomping at the bit for for years. Certainly Hillary knew, too. That vote was pure political expediency -- doing what was popular and safe at the moment rather than what was right. Massive fail, indeed.

[Art_from_Ark]

46. What really bugs me

is that she railed about the "vast right-wing conspiracy" in 1998-- and I agreed with her. Then 2 years later she saw that "vast right-wing conspiracy" in action as it stole the election from her husband's vice president, Al Gore, and immediately went on a bull-in-the-china-shop juggernaut, including launching a bombing campaign against Iraq just 3 weeks after His Fraudulency was officially installed in the White House. Then two years after that, she voted to give His Fraudulency and his "vast right-wing conspiracy" the power to wage war against a defenseless country.

[ohheckyeah]

47. She WAS a

Senator from New York. Can you imagine the blow back if she had voted no? Wasn't it (as been said about some of Berni's position) her job to represent her constituents?

[GummyBearz]

54. Funny

I don't remember the people of New York getting attacked by Iraq... I remember the towers getting taken down by Al Qaeda, so why did she vote to go to war in Iraq? Al Qaeda wasn't there at the time...

[ohheckyeah]

57. I know that,

she new that but much of the country was itching for a fight. I didn't agree with the Iraq war but it was a lonely position.

[GummyBearz]

60. If you are honestly saying

that she KNEW we should not have gone to war in Iraq, and caused all those lives to be lost and all the chaos that has ensued in the region, but she CHOSE to vote to go anyway because it was politically favorable for her, then you should be disgusted by the fact she may be our next president.

[ohheckyeah]

63. Senators

represent their constituents. She didn't vote to go to war, that wasn't the vote on the table.

How many Congressmen and Senators voted to give Bush the decision? Hillary certainly wasn't by herself.

[GummyBearz]

65. You think the people of New York wanted to go into Iraq because of what Al Qaeda did?

I don't

[LibDemAlways]

61. Being a person of conviction and standing up for what is

right often means going against the tide rather than being swept along with it. Voting for the Iraq War knowing it was based on lies demonstrated weakness rather than strength of character. I don't want a President who makes decisions based on opinion polls taken by a corrupt press. I want a President willing to take an unpopular stand because it's the right thing to do.

[ohheckyeah]

64. But it's ok for Sanders to

vote against gun control because he was representing his constituents? How many have died because of domestic gun violence?

[GummyBearz]

68. I would guess less than the 1+ million that have died in Iraq

Am I correct?

[LibDemAlways]

69. Our fellow poster is trying to change the subject, which

is Hillary's indefensible vote to launch a war on a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Untold numbers killed, the country's political system destabilized and for what? To fulfill the wet dream of a bunch of criminal, renegade neocons who sent her husband a letter in 1998 begging him to attack Iraq. She knew it was all bullshit and voted for it anyway.

[ucrdem]

48. On being in the middle

she handled it beautifully. If she runs the rest of her campaign like that she handled that debate we're in for eight more years of Clinton.

[workinclasszero]

55. If she runs the rest of her campaign like that she handled that debate we're in for eight more years

of Clinton"

I can only hope you are right! The best economic time in my life was when Bill was Prez and it all went to hell as soon as Dubya took over and started looting the country for the rich.

[DCBob]

49. She was fantastic.

You will see her poll numbers rise soon.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

56. YES!

Bernie's message is: It's going to take a political revolution and Hillary is talking about "reaching across the isle".

Who's out of touch? Who is being realistic and who is delusional? According to the propaganda machine, Hillary is realistic and Bernie, who's telling the truth: it's going to take a political revolution or it doesn't matter who is in office. This Congress has blocked everything under Obama, but things will be different under Hillary, someone the Rs hate more?

Delusional

[NCTraveler]

58. "and barely could defend herself. " lol It's comments like this that make such serious things fun.

I think you really believe what you have written here. Makes me smile. Thankfully, most of the people who agree with you are republicans.

[hrmjustin]

59. You guys seem upset.

[workinclasszero]

73. Bernie fans haz a sad today

Hillary was supposed to lose this debate so bad that Uncle Joe would step into the race today but..lol..that didn't happen!

I think lots of Bernie followers woke up and started smelling the coffee after last night. Some are clinging to internet push polls for comfort, so sad.

[hrmjustin]

74. We heard for weeks that this was going to be a clear Sanders win and it was clearly not.

And now they are trying to convince us as ifwe should not believe are lying eyes and ears.

[workinclasszero]

78. Yeah Hillary shocked

the crap out of lots of people last night including the MSM and Bernie backers.

I think she just gave her campaign a huge boost and now that Joe's not getting in for sure her poll numbers are really going to leave Bernie in the dust!

[brooklynite]

62. "barely could defend herself...."

That's an objective analysis, right?

[moondust]

66. Much of the reaction pre-scripted?

Some of the corporate media's reviews and ratings may have been written up and ready to go before the debate even started: basically the Fox News model of "create the narrative and keep repeating it." Please the corporate bosses and you may even get a raise! And a vacation! Winning!!!

[LexVegas]

67. Yeah, its like pictures of Tom Brady everywhere after the Super Bowl. Being declared he winner. nt.

[Utopian Leftist]

70. Hillary lost the debate when she said

that her greatest difference from the Obama Administration would be that she would be a woman.

I don't think she scored points with thinking women or men, with that line. If that is the only thing that distinguishes you from Obama, then you are essentially saying what everyone already knows about you: that your administration would be a continuation of Barack Obama's.

[randome]

71. With Sanders' 50 state advantage, how can such measly efforts make any difference?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[MineralMan]

72. See this link if you want the real truth!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251681117

[MineralMan]

75. Be careful, lest there be a photo of Hillary Clinton

in all federal buildings near you.