Occupy Underground
Related: About this forumCut It Out: An Open Letter to Black Bloc Anarchists
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/441-occupy/11562-cut-it-out-an-open-letter-to-black-bloc-anarchistsI like to compare those using Black Bloc tactics at a nonviolent protest to taking a six-year-old kid to the symphony. You'll likely find yourself constantly apologizing to those sitting in your row when the child makes fart jokes every time he hears the tympani. No matter what you do, how nice you are, how appreciative of the music or knowledgeable of the composer you are, the crowd will only remember you for having the annoying kid with you who ruined it for everybody.
The highlight of the historic NATO summit protests in Chicago last weekend was when Veterans for Peace, joined by their families, threw their war medals in the direction of McCormick Place where NATO generals were meeting to denounce the senseless violence they had committed to earn those medals. The veterans also delivered a flag to the mother of a soldier who committed suicide. An Afghan woman tearfully denounced the war that took the lives of her family members. The ceremony was powerful and emotionally gripping, and showed that those members of the military rejected being sent overseas to risk their lives so the 0.1% in the military-industrial complex could profit from wasteful contracts and resource exploitation. And it would have been the media's top story and the topic of everyone's conversations if you didn't have to act like a selfish bunch of assclowns.
flobee1
(870 posts)Blaming the BB'ers for the lack of media coverage? gimme a break!
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I've said this before and will say it again. When we were peaceful and got the crap beat out of us public support was moving our way. People were seeing the over the top amount of police as a huge waste of taxpayer money. They were seeing a police state and they did not like the abuse leveled onto the peaceful protesters by the police. Plus we could sue for it.
When they hear of bombs, fires, windows breaking, and assault to the police and their animals, they see the protesters as the problem. They see the over the top amount of police as needed to protect them from us. They see the police violence as warranted.
People will not come to protest if they end this way. People will allow protest to be outlawed if they end this way. And people will cheer on the police brutality even when it becomes fatal if they end this way.
We must have the support of the people to continue and to grow the movement.
This asinine juvenile delinquent level of violence is threatening all of it.
Now, I do know that the police infiltrate the anarchist and in fact, historically have always infiltrated all protest groups. The difference being that they cannot get the peaceful protesters to burn things, smash things and assault things. The anarchist are easy pickens for the police who are directed by the 1% to break us up.
Notice the media is often where shit is gonna happen? Thats because the police inform them so they can get what they want shown on all of our tv screens. The infiltrators are purposely causing violence to turn the public support away from us and give the police a reason to bust heads. Many do seem to enjoy head busting.
In the anarchist, they have an un witted friend. The anarchist are often set up, but make no mistake they are hoping to cause chaos themselves. They think they would like a war zone. Apparently they are young and not too wise and never seem to fail the police efforts to get them to do stupid shit.
The occupy movement must find a way to stop their actions or isolate them in the protest or this movement will not grow. They will just outlaw the protest. Permits won't be given.
The protest in Chicago was permitted and should have ended when agreed upon. Especially at a federally sanctioned affair, it was stupid to try to take a stand. There are plenty of actions in which we can shut down this or that and some may refuse to leave and choose arrest. But if we want to ever have the right to gather and protest, the permitted ones should stick to the agreement.
Violence and juvenile window breaking should never be part of this peaceful movement. Don't let the anarchist co-op this movement.
Even attacking the officers and horses was juvenile as both were well protected. They stand little chance of injury. Quit giving them a "legal" reason to bust your head and mine.
The streets of Chicago were mostly empty except for the protesters. The media and the police had done a fine job of portraying the protests as violent. I laughed at them. But lo and behold, you managed to make them feel justified in being afraid of the protesters.
Now is not the time for violence. I don't know that it ever will be. But we don't stand a chance in hell against the police in a violent manner. They will prevail that way.
I believe there are plenty of police who have come to hate all protesters. They show the republicon traits of believing we are all dirty hippies who need both baths and jobs. Can you say 1950's? They, like santorum and most pugs, are still stuck there.
Yet not all of the police are like that. Many really do want to serve. They can't just quit their job and not do as ordered and join the movement. They have families. They won't quit the job for the movement any more than most of us would.
Anyway, stand your ground if you want but permitted protest often include children, so permitted protest should end as agreed. Non permitted protest can go as you like as long as you resist the violence they are so desperate to show the world. Don't let them win so easily by allowing them to convince you that violence is the answer. Violence will only destroy this movement.
I hope occupy with all of it's great peaceful minds can find a way through this.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)The 1st Amendment is our Permit. Period. Give away that power to the police, who are only and always the 1%'s tool of oppression, and you lose it forever. Stockholm Syndrome.
Know when you'll see the most police? When you march on a bank or somewhere the 1% are gathering. Stand on a sidewalk with banners and pamphlets and you usually don't see any, and don't get beaten up. Follow the money.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)and I know most feel permits aren't necessary as it is a right. I get that. I 'm just saying, if you go to the trouble of getting a permit, and especially if you have children in the crowd, that maybe this isn't the time to refuse to leave and force a stand off.
I may be wrong but I don't remember seeing children in the non permitted marches. This one was billed as family friendly if I'm not mistaken.
So either they should forget all permits or follow what they agree to on the permitted ones or it seems to me, they will just deny all permits. I don't know if that even means anything though.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)The regular supporters backed off when the black bloc had their fun in Oakland, although they were probably APs. That some are defending their actions are beyond me.
In the past, violence to fight against war and oppression made the news but didn't change the world. Ideals change the world, and Occupy is showing us the best ones, the black bloc isn't. Occupy has made clear the solutions.
There is no solution that the black bloc are offering us but the ones that TPTB want us to take to give them more power. n/t
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)He uses terms like black bloc & anarchist carelessly.
To say the MSM didn't front-cover the medal ceremony because of the violence is too funny.
BTW, the bloodied faces of protesters were not caused by anarchist, nor by black bloc tactics.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)I can ask an irrelevant question too.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Next time don't accuse in the form of a question.
eridani
(51,907 posts)--yadayadayadayada. Google COINTELPRO sometime.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)There is a difference between legit black bloc tactics & the violence staged by provocateurs.
I resent it when people lump the two together. It is ignorant and dangerous to the movement.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Most anarchists that I know personally are thoroughly committed to militant non-violence, and don't think highly of the Black Bloc.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Also "black bloc" is a tactic. There are legitimate black bloc tactics used in protests.
Helping those arrested in protests to escape, administering first aid to victims of police abuse (tear gas, pepper spray, etc), and pushing through police lines are all legitimate uses of black bloc tactics.
"Black Bloc" is no way in hell a synonym for "violence"...to use your phrasing.
People carelessly use terms they don't understand.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)And there's an account posted at the Occupy L.A. website that illustrates it. This story is from an OLA occupier who rode the bus to Chicago for the NATO protests:
The Occupation is Not Leaving: A Revolutionary Weekend in Chicago
http://occupylosangeles.org/?q=node/9687
joshcryer
(62,491 posts)Criticism of anonymous public protest on an internet forum of anonymous posters is wondrous.
The tactic of being publicly anonymous does allow for instigators, but it's simple enough not to be instigated.
What's happening is the police repression is being blamed on the "bloc" as a "necessary evil" when the reality is that police repression happens whether or not the bloc is there.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)cynical take on the entire so-called 'black block phenomenon,' an invention of the security forces, by the security forces and for the security forces.
Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)I'd like to see (actual, mostly nonviolent) anarchists move on to other colors, myself.
I saw someone touting a yellow flag (or yellow and black flag) at a recent Occu protest. They said it was the flag of populists and progressives, like the red flag has come to mean leftist. I don't have a problem with the notion of "color revolutions". And I'd like to see populists take back the Gadsden flag -- or something resembling it -- from the fucking Tea Partiers.
Maybe I'll do one up sometime...? Anypony object...?
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)joshcryer
(62,491 posts)joshcryer
(62,491 posts)Note: the author of the article in the OP is Carl Gibson, co-founder of US Uncut.
Here's the old event: http://anarchistnews.org/node/14316
In this light, we would say keep up the good work. Let the mass arrests strengthen your resolve not deter you. And lets not fall into the divide-and-rule tactics that are the oldest trick in the richs book. If we can help or offer any practical solidarity to the arrestees, please get in touch. Weve previously hosted legal advice and training sessions with Fitwatch and the Legal Defence and Monitoring Group wed be happy to do this again. Or if the arrests are causing problems with employers, we'll help arrestees organise against victimisation. On Saturday most of the arrestees were UK Uncut activists. Next time it could be us. We those of us fighting the cuts are all in this together.
This anti-anarchist sentiment is a "good protester / bad protester" vs "good city management / bad city management" PSYOPS.
OCCUPY IS DEAD, OCCUPY HAS BARELY BEGUN: http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/occupy-spiritual-quest.html
Divide and conquer.