The Outcasts of Feminism

[obamanut2012]

Lesbians, women of color, blue-collar women"Redneck" women,TG women etc., were very much not wanted, and were often actively denied participation, in some of the earlier "movements" in feminist history. They were considered an embarrassment, even by people we often lionize as leaders and pioneers of feminism (ie Gloria Steinem). Steinem has since walked back most of her views on these marginalized groups of women, but she wrote and spoke some pretty hurtful stuff for many years, for decades.

Please remember that the above groups of women were often more than one of these categories: a "redneck" lesbian working in a textile mill for low wages, a Black blue-collar women working as a maid, an immigrant struggling to learn enough English to get a job not in a sweatshop. Many didn't have the luxury to discuss feminist political theory: they were trying to put food on the table and not get fired for trying to unionize while they worked full time and took GED classes at night.

There IS a certain privilege for white, straight women with a decent amount of money that many other women don't have. That doesn't mean there is an "Oppression Olympics," but rather that they have less factors that cause their oppression (unless one is disabled). Their main oppression is gender. Not race or class or sexual orientation or education. I can't remember which DU poster said this once, maybe Lioness Priyanka? But it's stayed with me. I'm paraphrasing, but they said: you fight about power struggles within your marriage, while we fight for the right to marry. That is very illustrative of intersectionality, I think.

This is why intersectionality also comes into play so much today in modern American society and feminism. We are more than the sum of our parts, but the pieces that make us up are intertwined, and the strands cannot be untangled, nor should they be.

[BlueToTheBone]

1. Are we talking Alice Paul exclusion from the "Movement"?

My grandmother was a Suffragette. Are you talking about unionizers Karen Silkwood?

Yes, as a white woman, I have incredible leeway; but all of us come to that wall and have to decide how to get through/over/under to the other side. Only by remembering that we are all sisters under the skin, will we be able to reach full equality for ALL sentient beings.

The war has been going on such a long time and is played out on the political stage all over the world. Look at the Greek Hero Myths and know that was one of early battle fronts that has enslaved women for thousands of years.

[obamanut2012]

2. It can be anyone you want it to be

Including a mother, a grandmother, an aunt, a wife, yourself.

[BlueToTheBone]

3. If we're all outcasts

then I guess we're all in it together.

[justiceischeap]

4. We are all in this together but not everyone

in the feminist movement believes this way. It's sad but true.

[IKN]

9. re: Gloria Steinem comment

Dear Obamanut:
I find your comments interesting but also misleading in regard to your mention of Gloria Steinem as one who had been hard on "The Outcasts of Feminism". Steinem is the only person you mention by name and though you say she has since retreated from her earlier negative stands I think if you researched this you would find that you are misspeaking. It was Betty Friedan who wanted to keep lesbians out of the women's movement for fear of turning others off. It was Steinem who insisted that the movement had to be inclusive of all. From the beginning she has stood up for gays, lesbians, blacks (she was one of the first to foster the writing of Alice Walker, bell hooks and others; she defended Angela Davis and raised defense funds for her when she was on the run), Native Americans (Wilma Mankiller, the first woman chief of the Cherokee nation was a long-time colleague), she marched with the Farm Workers when Delores Huerta and Cesar Chavez first organized the grapepickers strike; she has worked to help organize household and pink collar workers and welfare mothers. The list could go on and wold extend back to the 1060s. Could you cite your sources for your comments that Steinem considered any of these movements or people embarrassments?

[obamanut2012]

11. It was also Gloria, and she also commented about transgendered folks, tpp

I mentioned GS, because she is probably the most mainstream feminist to many people, and we have quite a few "new feminists" who read these groups, and I wanted to use someone they would definitely know.

GS did stand up to Betty Friedan in the early 70's in regards to openness of lesbians in the movement, I stated that her views had evolved.

Excuse my snark, but no, I won;t cite sources for someone who signed up just to respond to my post, especially after the last few days. Sorry.

[IKN]

12. Re: outcasts of feminism

You are correct in saying I signed up to specifically respond to your comments. I am an older woman so a) am still new to dialogue on the Internet and b) as a woman of color am perhaps overly sensitive to comments that unfairly malign individuals in generalized statements. Not to nitpick and to quote you back to yourself, you wrote: "outcasts of feminism...were considered an embarrassment...by people we lionize as leaders...of feminism (ie Gloria Steinem)...she wrote and spoke some pretty hurtful stuff for... decades." I hope you won't consider it "snarky" or combative of me to ask for any instances of this, especially since you have such a wide and interested audience who could also perhaps gain from this dialogue, if you are willing to respond, myself included.

[Starry Messenger]

5. I love that last sentence, so perfect.

Great post obamanut.

[obamanut2012]

7. That means a lot fromyou, SM

Thanks.

[abelenkpe]

6. Whaaaaaat?!

There are women excluded from the feminist movement? How would that make any sense? Women fighting for equal rights means for all women, doesn't it?

You should have seen my five year old daughters face the other day when I told her that not long ago women couldn't vote, and weren't allowed to do certain jobs. Actually the expression on my son's face was the same. Both thought that was just crazy. Which just illustrates that bigotry in general is learned, taught to our children by society. Humans don't come into this world that way.

We're all Sneetches manipulated by Sylvester McMonkey McBean

[laconicsax]

8. Pretty much.

Some of the feminist movement's most vocal and visible advocates were (and still are) essentially tone deaf to the realities for women who aren't straight, white, affluent, and cisgender. Any time you have a movement that ignores people, those ignored wind up excluded and their concerns dismissed.

[TBF]

10. In my experience that's true -

I grew up with a dad who worked in a factory and a mom who waitressed. We didn't have the opportunities suburban kids did for sure ... but my mom's dad was a farmer (pretty big operation) so I could walk into his bank and cash a check from my part-time job once they knew I was his grand daughter. When I got out of university (scholarships, grants, public state school) I could dress up for my job interviews and look like what they wanted to see. I had to pay for the dental work in college myself, I worked part-time and did so.

It is much easier to succeed on their terms if you "look the part". When a woman of color walks in there can be all sorts of negativity to follow. Not always, but it is not something you can try to fix up to please the masters.

It's an additional burden and sometimes white women (whether privileged or not) don't realize it.