The claim someone needs an AR-15 type weapon for home defense

[doc03]

This morning I saw a post in the RKBA group that has since been blocked. This person claimed to have experienced a home invasion and asked for advise on the best gun for home defense. There were over 50 posts recommending various handguns and shotguns with the usual pictures and all. The thing that stood out to me was with all these recommendations no one single person recommended an AR-15 or anything similar to that. Every time I see a thread on banning such guns out comes all these people claiming they are the best home defense weapon you can get. I had an argument a couple days ago with one of them. I told him that the AR-15 .223 cal. would be the last weapon you would want, first of all you would be at close range, second you would stand a good chance of killing another family member or a neighbor with a stray bullet. No according to the gungeon experts you have to have an assault weapon. But here we have a tread asking for advise on a gun for home defense and nobody even mentions such a gun.

[underpants]

1. I have a DD-214, which apparently makes me an expert, handguns are best in small areas

[doc03]

3. Hey I have a DD-214 and a Expert Riflemans badge for the M-16 and M-14

and a CCW permit. That makes me an expert too.

[underpants]

14. I was being sarcastic.

I haven't been in the service for almost 25 years. A former co-worker of mine (really into guns) told me that in Virginia a DD-214 fulfilled tge requirements for a CCW. I worked with him almost -0 years ago do in not sure if the requirements have changed since then. I struck me as odd that just because someone had been in the Army and received BRM training that qualifies them forever.

[doc03]

19. I got it. Really the 214 would maybe make you overgualified. In Ohio the Sherriff runs a check for a

criminal background, you show you can load and fire a pistol that's about it. They give you the NRA handgun course for training and
hopefully get you to join up. There was a newspaper article a year or so ago that gave the numbers of people denied the permit because of mental illness in several local counties. Every county out of 4 or 5 had close to or over hundred people that were denied. But one county had zero mentally ill people. It just happens that is the county with the highest crime rate.

[RobertEarl]

2. Sawed off shot gun is best

But sawed off shotguns are not legal.

Why?

Because sawed off shotguns are too dangerous.

[doc03]

4. I think 18" is legal n/t

[RobertEarl]

5. Point is: limits

I don't see the NRA clamoring to be allowed to carry sawed off shotguns, when those are the very best for personal defense.

[rjsquirrel]

6. I found that story far too pat

So I searched for crime reports that matched its very dramatic description, the details of which guarantee it would make the news.

Not that this proves anything but it was supposedly on Tuesday and I found nothing even close to matching the tale of a home invasion robbery in which the occupant killed a lone armed intruder by means other than a gun (or with a gun for that matter).

Haven't even found any 2am armed home invasion robberies in a Google news search in the last week, without the dramatic ending either. Certainly not in a suburban setting.

Such heroic tales happen rarely enough and provide such propaganda value and appeal to base fears and ingrained narratives of how one would like to respond to threats that they are stock and trade of the NRA and pro-gun movement. They are told over and over (if they involve a gun used in self defense or the absence of a gun leading to an egregious outcome) and take a certain form with certain kinds of language and certain recurrent tropes (2am, safe neighborhood, a certain faux humility about the violence required to act heroically).


Not saying the story isn't true. Just saying hmmmm. Perhaps someone with better Google skills than mine can corroborate the episode with a link?

Very few people would be capable of the heroism described (of course the means of the lone villain's death is left to our imaginations) without military combat or police experience and training, with a gun or a knife or a baseball bat or fists for that matter. I've been robbed at gunpoint. I'm a big tough dude and I like as to shit my pants staring at that gun pointed at my chest. It was all I could do to comply as fast as I could. The adrenaline rush was unbelievable.

Anyone I know who could function effectively in such a situation as to kill an armed intruder manually already knows what guns they might need for what circumstances and likely owns them already.

[Jerry442]

7. Still -- I'd rather play the fool and give some comfort...

...to someone who turns out to be fictitious, rather than pile on to someone with an unusual story who actually ended up being real.

I noticed the RBKA folks in their responses, went directly to showing off their gun expertise.

On edit: The original post was deleted by the author. This probably means something, but I don't know what.

[billh58]

9. I agree, especially

since the poster was already a member of RKBA.

[rjsquirrel]

10. Right?

Yet all she had was a decrepit old .22 that had rusted from misuse. Yet her husband had "backup" means of killing a lone 2am armed intruder.

There's still no sign of any such crime happening anywhere in the US in the last week that I can find on google. Imagine that, a brave suburban homeowner manually kills an armed home invader at 2am on a Tuesday and yet the following Monday no media outlet has reported on this rare and remarkable event.

Just all too neatly wrapped.

[Jerry442]

11. The one thing that really got to me...

...was that the hypothetical best gun for defense against a three-alarmer home invasion also had to double as a good gun for target shooting.

That's a bit like a drowning person desperately calling for a flotation device, but y'know one that doesn't clash with my outfit.

[rjsquirrel]

13. Lol exactly

I'm being careful not to call it an outright fable but come on, all that's missing is characterization of the intruder as a "bushy headed" man high on meth.

Screw it, I'm saying it never happened without more proof.

The highest likelihood outcome of keeping a gun for self defense in your home, certainly if you're the sort of naïf who knows nothing about guns to begin with, is that it will be used against a member of your household by a member of your household.

[doc03]

20. I found the story hard to beleive myself and what was Plan B? Did he beat him to death? It sort of

looked like it was something the gun lobby came up with to promote gun sales. If it was true I am sorry for their
problems. The real surprise for me was nobody at all recommended the AR-15. Every time there is a post wanting
to outlaw the AR-15 a dozen of the same people come out of the woodwork with pictures of guns and stories telling
of the virtues of the AR-15 as a home defense weapon and hunting weapon.

[safeinOhio]

8. A good alarm, motion lights and

secure windows and doors are cheaper and will protect your stuff, including your guns, when you are not home.

[Jerry442]

12. Yeah, window bars won't accidentally shoot your spouse either. NT

[safeinOhio]

15. Bars are dangerous because you can't get out in a fire.

Several companies make a unbreakable film you can put on your windows.

https://www.amazon.com/Security-Window-Film-Wide-Roll/dp/B004LDBPY2

[Jerry442]

16. Interesting stuff. TY.

Also, some places make bars that can be released from the inside.

On edit: Actually, doesn't look like a half-bad idea for a house with kids with vulnerable large windows not made from tempered glass.

[safeinOhio]

17. For the price of bars you could

instal hurricane windows. Look for them on the East Coast. They always advertised them by firing a 2X4 out of a cannon without breaking the glass. Talked to a fireman that said they have to go through the roof because they can't break the windows.

[safeinOhio]

18. Here is a video of 3M film in action.

3M product is a little more costly as they have to install it. Other companies have product for DIYers and claim if you can put up wall paper you can use their product.

Very high insulation value for both cold and heat. Can lose about 10% of visibility. Would need at least 8mm film and they make it much thicker than that.

Motion cameras are under $100 now and film can be saved to the cloud even if the damage the camera. Regular motion lights run for as little as $20. 3 inch screws in door jams and hinges make it very hard to kick in a door. With the noise and action of trying to kick in the door, they'll leave and move to the next house.

I have nothing against a shotgun in the home is there are no children, but if you do shoot someone, you'll need a clean up squad and a lawyer. Then there is always the PTSD suffered from looking someone in the eye when you take their life.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzl01p_3m-security-window-film-demo_news